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[Politics] Brexit

If there was a second Brexit referendum how would you vote?

  • Total voters
    1,099


A

abc

Well-known member
Jan 6, 2007
1,346
WATFORD zero said:

There’s an elephant in the room at Keir Starmer’s big investment summit: Brexit​

Why would any business locate themselves in a country that has cut itself off from the world’s largest trading bloc when it could just do business in the world’s largest trading bloc? Brexit has not been a “big bang” of damage but a slow drain of talent, investment and, ultimately, growth. Now the pandemic has receded, that is painfully clear. Aston University research shows a 27% drop in UK exports and a 32% decline in imports from the EU since 2021, which translates to an annual loss of £183bn.

https://www.msn.com/en-gb/money/other/there-s-an-elephant-in-the-room-at-keir-starmer-s-big-investment-summit-brexit/ar-AA1sf9pa?ocid=mailsignout&pc=U591&cvid=5b4f49faafa248b09a08c0d405bb0c62&ei=11

I wonder if there's anything obvious that could be done to help the Government grow the economy by a few billion a year ? Still, onwards and downwards :dunce:
Click to expand...
Key line from this report "This is an argument for honesty from those who still claim Brexit offers benefits"

This will never happen

I have experienced first hand the chaos, loss of business and higher costs due to Brexit. It has really hurt. Yet I am regularly told that Brexit was never the problem but 'the Brexit that was implemented was not the one we voted for' and always by people who are retired. Essentially it was too soft.

I will never forgive Johnson and Farage for their lies and wilful damage to our nation and economy but I also recognise that if Labour had campaigned properly against it, brexit would never have happened. Starmer was part of that. In fairness, respect to the Lib Dem's for consistently owning Remain.
 




WATFORD zero

WATFORD zero

Well-known member
NSC Patron
Jul 10, 2003
27,607
abc said:
Key line from this report "This is an argument for honesty from those who still claim Brexit offers benefits"

This will never happen

I have experienced first hand the chaos, loss of business and higher costs due to Brexit. It has really hurt. Yet I am regularly told that Brexit was never the problem but 'the Brexit that was implemented was not the one we voted for' and always by people who are retired. Essentially it was too soft.

I will never forgive Johnson and Farage for their lies and wilful damage to our nation and economy but I also recognise that if Labour had campaigned properly against it, brexit would never have happened. Starmer was part of that. In fairness, respect to the Lib Dem's for consistently owning Remain.
Click to expand...

Not only did the Lib Dems and Labour campaign against it, but so did the majority of Tory MPs including their leadership. It was Cameron's attempt to split the minority of swivel-eyed loons off from the rest of his mainstream party after decades of in fighting. He certainly managed it, but not quite in the way he planned.

Less than a quarter of MPs across all parties backed Leave, but the British Electorate decided that Johnson and Farage were telling the truth. (Although I agree it has only been the Lib Dems who have been consistent throughout).

I do think the remain campaign could have been better, but they did try and call out the lies. Unfortunately the Leave campaign used every aspect of every definition of Brexit from staying in the SM/CU to no deal, often contradicting themselves. It makes me wonder why the press didn't call them out more regularly with fact checking. Consequently, it was easy to convince people who didn't understand or have the time and interest to read up about these things.

The article I've attached isn't about re-joining though, it's about all the other things that could be done to make Brexit less damaging going forward.
 
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  • Haha
Reactions: cjd






Eric the meek

Eric the meek

Fiveways Wilf
NSC Patron
Aug 24, 2020
6,900
An introduction to Vatnik Soup - a twitter feed and a book devoted to Russian disinformation.

Eagle eyed observers will notice a section on someone called..........Nigel Farage.

 




D

dsr-burnley

Well-known member
Aug 15, 2014
2,564
Look on the bright side. Labour's flagship policy on VAT charges on education (some aspects of it, anyway) wouldn't have been possible without Brexit because the EU doesn't allow VAT on education.
 


B

Bodian

Well-known member
May 3, 2012
14,050
Cumbria
WATFORD zero said:
I do think the remain campaign could have been better, but they did try and call out the lies. Unfortunately the Leave campaign used every aspect of every definition of Brexit from staying in the SM/CU to no deal, often contradicting themselves. It makes me wonder why the press didn't call them out more regularly with fact checking. Consequently, it was easy to convince people who didn't understand or have the time and interest to read up about these things.
Click to expand...
I think that until Brexit & Trump, then Johnson as PM, in general although we didn't trust politicans, and expected spin - we didn't really anticipate them routinely telling out and out lies. And so the 'fact-checking' and so on has really developed since then. Now we know that they lie outrageously, we're more willing to question it. Or just be apathetic about it all - which is what seems to be more dominant given turnouts and so on.
 


nicko31

nicko31

Well-known member
Jan 7, 2010
18,416
Gods country fortnightly
Weststander said:
Imagine the economic boost with an EU-UK agreement such as Norway/Swiss. Reluctantly I’ve given up on re-entry, even the LibDems hit it into the long grass at the GE.
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Reality is coming home to roost, the cost of trade sanctions is being felt in the nations tax take, we're now in the land of higher taxes to prop up failing public services.

I really still think customs union would be a great first step, Starmer was a fool to rule this out. Its reaching the point politically where downside is minimal. Lets face it the trade agreements post Brexit don't deliver and won't deliver, infact some threaten our home industries such as agriculture.

A friend of mine wanted me to go on a re-join march recently but frankly at the moment its for the birds. I'm still pissed, I'm still annoyed 8 years on but I'm also a realist
 




nicko31

nicko31

Well-known member
Jan 7, 2010
18,416
Gods country fortnightly
dsr-burnley said:
Look on the bright side. Labour's flagship policy on VAT charges on education (some aspects of it, anyway) wouldn't have been possible without Brexit because the EU doesn't allow VAT on education.
Click to expand...
It that an attempt at a Brexit benefit? First in years on this thread
 


The Clamp

The Clamp

Well-known member
NSC Patron
Jan 11, 2016
26,023
West is BEST
dsr-burnley said:
Look on the bright side. Labour's flagship policy on VAT charges on education (some aspects of it, anyway) wouldn't have been possible without Brexit because the EU doesn't allow VAT on education.
Click to expand...
If we hadn’t left the EU we would not need to tax education.
 








nicko31

nicko31

Well-known member
Jan 7, 2010
18,416
Gods country fortnightly
Titanic said:
We don't now. It is a benighted dog-whistle anti-toffs policy, which is already showing signs of backfiring.
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Nothing dog whistle about it

Charitable status next would be a sensible move, its just state sponsorship of the class system
 


Simster

Simster

"the man's an arse"
Jul 7, 2003
54,915
Surrey
Titanic said:
We don't now. It is a benighted dog-whistle anti-toffs policy, which is already showing signs of backfiring.
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Not sure that's true as much as low-hanging fruit taxation from a government that promised no tax hikes on working people. I'd rather they hiked IHT or Corp Tax but ultimately if you can afford to send your kids private you should be paying tax on it. Listening to the usual Tory suspects bleating about it is seriously pitiful.
 




Titanic

Titanic

Super Moderator
Helpful Moderator
Jul 5, 2003
39,869
West Sussex
Simster said:
Not sure that's true as much as low-hanging fruit taxation from a government that promised no tax hikes on working people. I'd rather they hiked IHT or Corp Tax but ultimately if you can afford to send your kids private you should be paying tax on it. Listening to the usual Tory suspects bleating about it is seriously pitiful.
Click to expand...

I would perhaps agree with you, but doesn't look like it is actually going to make any money...

www.theguardian.com

Eton among elite private schools set to cash in on windfall from new VAT rules

VAT-registered schools will be able to claim refunds for tax paid on capital projects over past 10 years
www.theguardian.com www.theguardian.com
 


The Clamp

The Clamp

Well-known member
NSC Patron
Jan 11, 2016
26,023
West is BEST
There is an argument for some of the areas Labour are targeting. However, the fact they didn’t go for these fuckers


IMG_3894.jpeg



As soon as they got into power makes me seriously doubt Labour has the stones to fix this country.
 




Harry Wilson's tackle

Harry Wilson's tackle

Harry Wilson's Tackle
NSC Patron
Oct 8, 2003
55,711
Faversham
abc said:
Key line from this report "This is an argument for honesty from those who still claim Brexit offers benefits"

This will never happen

I have experienced first hand the chaos, loss of business and higher costs due to Brexit. It has really hurt. Yet I am regularly told that Brexit was never the problem but 'the Brexit that was implemented was not the one we voted for' and always by people who are retired. Essentially it was too soft.

I will never forgive Johnson and Farage for their lies and wilful damage to our nation and economy but I also recognise that if Labour had campaigned properly against it, brexit would never have happened. Starmer was part of that. In fairness, respect to the Lib Dem's for consistently owning Remain.
Click to expand...
The party was in thrall to Corbyn and his band of arseholes back then. Starmer had absolutely no traction. I had no idea he even existed, and would have ignored him had he piped up.

The Lib Dems may have 'owned' remain, but they put it in a box and locked it in a shed on an allotment. They had no traction with the electorate at the time.

(Happy to see Starmer criticied now for being dull, wasting Lord Alli's money on nice suits and/or turning up to international summits dressed in cheap clobber from M&S (sometimes you just can't win), and miss-handling the winter fuel freeby (I really needed the money; there is a Michelin starred restaurant I really fancied visiting and the hand out would of done nicely for that).)

Blaming Starmzy for not irrigating the lacklustre Corbyn opposition and saving the Remain campaign is a bit of a stretch.

Still, when a man is down, why not put the boot in?
 




Weststander

Weststander

Well-known member
Aug 25, 2011
68,966
Withdean area
nicko31 said:
Reality is coming home to roost, the cost of trade sanctions is being felt in the nations tax take, we're now in the land of higher taxes to prop up failing public services.

I really still think customs union would be a great first step, Starmer was a fool to rule this out. Its reaching the point politically where downside is minimal. Lets face it the trade agreements post Brexit don't deliver and won't deliver, infact some threaten our home industries such as agriculture.

A friend of mine wanted me to go on a re-join march recently but frankly at the moment its for the birds. I'm still pissed, I'm still annoyed 8 years on but I'm also a realist
Click to expand...

I still can’t quite believe the UK did it :(.

I was brought up in a pro EEC home, it was a largely old school Tory thing, the left opposed the EU hence the legacy of Corbyn, Crow and Lynch being dead against the project. Originally for us on the basis of European unity being good for peace.

Simply assuming our membership would last forever.
 


D

dsr-burnley

Well-known member
Aug 15, 2014
2,564
Simster said:
Not sure that's true as much as low-hanging fruit taxation from a government that promised no tax hikes on working people. I'd rather they hiked IHT or Corp Tax but ultimately if you can afford to send your kids private you should be paying tax on it. Listening to the usual Tory suspects bleating about it is seriously pitiful.
Click to expand...
Ditto university. No reason in principle why they shouldn't put VAT on university fees too.
 


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