[Politics] Brexit

[Eric the meek]

De regulation of rights, so the rich can make more and more profits especially in Special Enterprise Zones, where there will be no regulation. See P&O.

No regulation you say? There is another thread on here (the Grenfell thread) on which regulations were ostensibly in place, but were bypassed or ignored to increase profits.

I remember the Tory/Lib Dem coalition government of 2010 and the 'bonfire of regulations'. We now need to return to an era in which regulations are seen as necessary and there for a reason.

 

[Berty23]

Unfortunately for the 64%, charging VAT on education is outlawed in the EU so Labour would have to u-turn that policy which I'm guessing is unlikely. Freeports are also an issue but I really don't know much about them.

To be fair this is possibly the greatest irony of Brexit. “We need to be free of EU regs” say the rich right wing independent school educated Tories. “No not that regulation. We meant all the other ones that don’t benefit us over poor people”

 

[Harry Wilson's tackle]

So because the Brexit sunny uplands haven't arrived for the economy we STILL can't afford the cost proper customs checks on EU imports?

That said I guess this mean the EU isn't doing the same for our exports? That would be unfair....

Historians will look back at the postwar history of England and ask what the f*** happened to the English?

Once we had leadership, and an important voice in the world. Churchill. A seat at Yalta. The UN. The massive opportunity offered by the postwar concensus.

Somehow we became incredibly entitled over the following decades. We begged to join the common market, and it was only the demise of De Gaulle that opened the way.

And having joined, we had forgotten why. The 1970s was an embarrassing decade of entitlement and mismanagement, and the emergence of 'victim' culture, where all our ills were the result of (perm any way you like):

Long haired layabouts
Unions
P***s/n*****s
Football hooligans
P***s
Women's libbers
Punk Rockers.....

Then along came Thatcher to save us. But this largely involved attacking all the ills listed above rather than looking outward and thinking about constructive change.

And we eventually left the EU in a great cloud of victimhood: England degraded by foringers telling us what to do.

What a pathetic shambles, exemplified by the great embodiment of victimhood himself, Farage, a victim on our behalf.

Time we woke up and realized we have to make a great society through graft, not grift, which means engaging with other nations, not sneering, demonizing and then.....sulking.

 

[nicko31]

No regulation you say? There is another thread on here (the Grenfell thread) on which regulations were ostensibly in place, but were bypassed or ignored to increase profits.

I remember the Tory/Lib Dem coalition government of 2010 and the 'bonfire of regulations'. We now need to return to an era in which regulations are seen as necessary and there for a reason.

For many Tories Brexit was all about deregulation. Immigration was just the trojan house to convinced ordinary folk to commit self harm

 

[Harry Wilson's tackle]

No regulation you say? There is another thread on here (the Grenfell thread) on which regulations were ostensibly in place, but were bypassed or ignored to increase profits.

I remember the Tory/Lib Dem coalition government of 2010 and the 'bonfire of regulations'. We now need to return to an era in which regulations are seen as necessary and there for a reason.

The best way to let the status quo prevail is to create rules that are ambiguous and a management rubric that doesn't work.

I have just spent 20 minutes explaining a fundamental problem at work over academic appeals committee management. The people in charge are not interested in change, and have actually set up a permanent out of office response to emails. So we don't have enough staff to chair the appeals and students sit in limbo while staff do nothing. And we don't have a management rubric that notes this and makes necessary changes.

 

[mwrpoole]

To be fair this is possibly the greatest irony of Brexit. “We need to be free of EU regs” say the rich right wing independent school educated Tories. “No not that regulation. We meant all the other ones that don’t benefit us over poor people”

Clearly they only looked at the things they didn't like. No-one will change the things we like, oh s**t they are going to change them as well. No, no that can't happen!

 

[Thunder Bolt]

I don't know what you mean when you say 'freeports are also an issue', Britain has had them pre and post Brexit

Freeports see Special Enterprise Zones.

Areas which will become privately owned, deregulated and planning laws won’t exist. There’s a reason Central Government has been starving local councils of funding. Fracking, mining for minerals (see Dartmoor) etc.
Another reason why the Tories tried to take over the National Trust.

@EuropeanPowell has been very vocal warning people about this.

 

[mwrpoole]

I think the £1.3B that would be raised by VAT on education pales into insignificance compared to the £100B pa leaving the customs union has cost us in GDP, and I would imagine any chancellor would think exactly the same. (Ok, maybe not Kwasi )

I don't know what you mean when you say 'freeports are also an issue', Britain has had them pre and post Brexit

As I said I know little about them, I just keep reading that our freeports are outlawed in the EU.

 

[Thunder Bolt]

As I said I know little about them, I just keep reading that our freeports are outlawed in the EU.

That was untrue, because Cameron closed down our freeports in 2012.
As above, the Tory idea of freeports is very different to the EU.

 

[Thunder Bolt]

No regulation you say? There is another thread on here (the Grenfell thread) on which regulations were ostensibly in place, but were bypassed or ignored to increase profits.

I remember the Tory/Lib Dem coalition government of 2010 and the 'bonfire of regulations'. We now need to return to an era in which regulations are seen as necessary and there for a reason.

A common expression’Health & Safety gone mad’ encouraged by the bosses, so regulations, hard fought, could be ignored for profit.
The unions were strong on worker safety at one point, but were then crushed because the nation was convinced that unions were greedy (some were, but not all).

 

[WATFORD zero]

As I said I know little about them, I just keep reading that our freeports are outlawed in the EU.

Then I'm sorry, but where ever you're reading this, they are telling lies, almost certainly sourced from the initial leave campaign.

The first freeport in the United Kingdom opened in the 1980s under Margaret Thatcher, as an attempt to combat de-industrialisation and a declining economy. Several freeports operated throughout the United Kingdom, but by 2012 the Conservative-led government decided not to renew their licences.

 

[Thunder Bolt]

Freeports see Special Enterprise Zones.

Areas which will become privately owned, deregulated and planning laws won’t exist. There’s a reason Central Government has been starving local councils of funding. Fracking, mining for minerals (see Dartmoor) etc.
Another reason why the Tories tried to take over the National Trust.

@EuropeanPowell has been very vocal warning people about this.

Sorry to quote myself but just one link.

 

[Eric the meek]

The best way to let the status quo prevail is to create rules that are ambiguous and a management rubric that doesn't work.

I have just spent 20 minutes explaining a fundamental problem at work over academic appeals committee management. The people in charge are not interested in change, and have actually set up a permanent out of office response to emails. So we don't have enough staff to chair the appeals and students sit in limbo while staff do nothing. And we don't have a management rubric that notes this and makes necessary changes.

Permission for a brief digression.

Please take this the right way. You are fortunate that the people who are not interested in change, are passive and not active in their disinterest.

The Russian state is organising fake groups of soldiers' mothers and soldiers' widows, in an attempt to purportedly advocate on behalf of soldiers. This is a counter measure against real groups of soldiers' mothers and soldiers' widows who are organising, lobbying and bringing criminal prosecutions against Russian officers.
It is almost impossible to differentiate between the real and fake groups.

Dystopian doesn't begin to describe it.

 

[Harry Wilson's tackle]

Permission for a brief digression.

Please take this the right way. You are fortunate that the people who are not interested in change, are passive and not active in their disinterest.

The Russian state is organising fake groups of soldiers' mothers and soldiers' widows, in an attempt to purportedly advocate on behalf of soldiers. This is a counter measure against real groups of soldiers' mothers and soldiers' widows who are organising, lobbying and bringing criminal prosecutions against Russian officers.
It is almost impossible to differentiate between the real and fake groups.

Dystopian doesn't begin to describe it.

I agree completely.

That is in fact the main problem in the UK. (And indeed in Russia we are talking a whole other level of absolute power corruption)

In the UK the people setting up untested process without any mechanism for quality assurance are (largely) doing so honestly and to the best of their ability.

And the people in charge of such are not appraised on the basis of their creating effective processes. They are appraise and rewarded for creating new processes, and the paperwork surrounding them.

Likewise, I am rewarded much more for my research grant income than for the value of my research outcomes.

When there is no obvious immediate harm associated with these rubrics, people don't realize they are suboptimal, with long term adverse consequences.

I like to look to see what isn't working and fix the problem. Unfortunately the UK way seems to have become, now, find a problem and try to fix it by blaming someone else and punishing them, while rewarding those who benefit from the problem. Weird.

 

[getreal1]

To be fair this is possibly the greatest irony of Brexit. “We need to be free of EU regs” say the rich right wing independent school educated Tories. “No not that regulation. We meant all the other ones that don’t benefit us over poor people”

In terms of irony, could that include the likes of Crow, McLuskey and Corbyn et al being keen to see the back of the EU too?

 

[nicko31]

Sorry to quote myself but just one link.

Th whole freeport thing is little discussed, they are a total disaster in the making. The likes of JRM have wet dreams about this stuff

 

[Eric the meek]

I agree completely.

That is in fact the main problem in the UK. (And indeed in Russia we are talking a whole other level of absolute power corruption)

In the UK the people setting up untested process without any mechanism for quality assurance are (largely) doing so honestly and to the best of their ability.

And the people in charge of such are not appraised on the basis of their creating effective processes. They are appraise and rewarded for creating new processes, and the paperwork surrounding them.

Likewise, I am rewarded much more for my research grant income than for the value of my research outcomes.

When there is no obvious immediate harm associated with these rubrics, people don't realize they are suboptimal, with long term adverse consequences.

I like to look to see what isn't working and fix the problem. Unfortunately the UK way seems to have become, now, find a problem and try to fix it by blaming someone else and punishing them, while rewarding those who benefit from the problem. Weird.

I was going to write a post about examples of what you describe in your last sentences, but tbh, I could get myself into a whole load of trouble. I'm tainted, anyway. I only saw the dirty laundry. My experience at the sharp end, testing software at companies such as Northern Rock, Equitable Life (oh, and Equiniti), has made me realise I'm better off out of it.

We have indeed become the nation you describe. There seems to be less integrity, accountability and people willing to own a problem now.

 

[vegster]

Historians will look back at the postwar history of England and ask what the f*** happened to the English?

Once we had leadership, and an important voice in the world. Churchill. A seat at Yalta. The UN. The massive opportunity offered by the postwar concensus.

Somehow we became incredibly entitled over the following decades. We begged to join the common market, and it was only the demise of De Gaulle that opened the way.

And having joined, we had forgotten why. The 1970s was an embarrassing decade of entitlement and mismanagement, and the emergence of 'victim' culture, where all our ills were the result of (perm any way you like):

Long haired layabouts
Unions
P***s/n*****s
Football hooligans
P***s
Women's libbers
Punk Rockers.....

Then along came Thatcher to save us. But this largely involved attacking all the ills listed above rather than looking outward and thinking about constructive change.

And we eventually left the EU in a great cloud of victimhood: England degraded by foringers telling us what to do.

What a pathetic shambles, exemplified by the great embodiment of victimhood himself, Farage, a victim on our behalf.

Time we woke up and realized we have to make a great society through graft, not grift, which means engaging with other nations, not sneering, demonizing and then.....sulking.

Every country/civilisation has its time. The lessons of history show the constant rise and fall of empires. We have had our time just as the Pharaoh's, the Romans the Hapsburgs the Ottomans before us....the USA could pretty much disintegrate if Trump wins the next election, they will crumble in to infighting and possible Civil War again while China continues its rise and will become the dominant country in the world.....we had about 300 good years as being World leaders but, we f***ed it up.

 

[Thunder Bolt]

Th whole freeport thing is little discussed, they are a total disaster in the making. The likes of JRM have wet dreams about this stuff

There’s a reason for that. Think Archer and Belotti land grab.

Every country/civilisation has its time. The lessons of history show the constant rise and fall of empires. We have had our time just as the Pharaoh's, the Romans the Hapsburgs the Ottomans before us....the USA could pretty much disintegrate if Trump wins the next election, they will crumble in to infighting and possible Civil War again while China continues its rise and will become the dominant country in the world.....we had about 300 good years as being World leaders but, we f***ed it up.

Good years for whom? Some was good but a lot was bad, with ongoing problems.

 

[vegster]

There’s a reason for that. Think Archer and Belotti land grab.

Good years for whom? Some was good but a lot was bad, with ongoing problems.

I entirely agree, as a nation it was a time of huge prestige, not so good it you were in the armed forces far abroad or doing 14 hour days in a mill or as a servant.