You are not a bigger club

[Wilts]

OK. A history debate. Seen this one a few times... willing to stick up for my team (for once!)

Gates/averages of around 25,000? Yep. A look back through the history books will show you that in the 1920s we did.

England internationals while playing for Reading? Yep, again in the 1920s.

Number of trophies won? (Includes European Cups, Premiership, FA Cup, League Cup). Zero. And that includes Brighton and Reading. If you want to include other cups then we won the Simod Cup in 1988 in front of over 60,000 Reading fans. Not bad, you have to admit. Would have won the FA Cup in 1927 if it wasn't for Cardiff!

So basically we did in the 1920s what Brighton did in the 1970s/early 80s. Except that my argument will never hold because I'm too young to remember the 1920s, whereas many on many counts there are people on here that remember the 70s/80s.

Examples of strong support? Well, the most fans from one team ever to go to Wembley, and until recently the most fans ever to go to the Millenium Stadium (overtaken by Bristol City last year who took 50,000).

In the Div 2 promotion season (you know, the one where you came... err... above us ), we managed to sell out over 20,000 on three occasions. Only Man City and now Sheffield Wednesday have managed that in god knows how long. Probably about 20 years (at a guess). The attendances that we had in the old Division 4 (back in the day) were some of the highest ever seen by that division. The next time you get a 23,500 attendance at home to Peterborough, be sure to give us a shout

There's no question about the support and potential of Brighton. We all know that. But it'd be nice to see a bit of notice for other clubs with similar potential. Gotta remember that we are both no more above quite a lot of clubs with a lot of potential.

Strangely, the only clubs I describe as "big" are Man Utd, Liverpool, etc, and the only clubs I reckon are "small" are the Macclesfield/Rochdale type of clubs. Everyone else is in the middle and that's where Brighton and Reading lay - in my opinion.

 

[Stumpy Tim]

Just for your benefit. In Steve's own words. "If it weren't for Brighton's stadium problems, the Reading job wouldn't even be an issue".

Which kind of sums up my feeling. If we had a stadium like Readings then we would be a club of similar stature. But we haven't, so we're not. Now in two years time with Falmer..... then we'll start stealing the players & managers from Reading. )

 

[Captain Sensible]

23500 is impressive thats not in doubt. But Reading is in the commuter (david Brent) work in london type. The sort of people that can't explain the offside rule.

You have a wonderful stadium. It makes watching football much more attractive. Good ammenities, bars, comfort etc. Compare that to withdean. There is no comparrison. People that have never seen football aprt from on the telly can go to watch reading. You have a good chance of getting in and you have no hang ups about taking your girlfriend daughter etc. That is why your crowd has swelled.
No doubt with Falmer we will also have thoughs types at our matches. However, I would hope that more of them are sons of people that are Brighton fans and people that can't get into Withdean. You don't have the same fan base so if what we are talking about is big clubs then Brighton is Bigger.

But neither are "BIG" clubs.

 

[Royal]

OK. A history debate. Seen this one a few times... willing to stick up for my team (for once!)

Gates/averages of around 25,000? Yep. A look back through the history books will show you that in the 1920s we did.

England internationals while playing for Reading? Yep, again in the 1920s.

Number of trophies won? (Includes European Cups, Premiership, FA Cup, League Cup). Zero. And that includes Brighton and Reading. If you want to include other cups then we won the Simod Cup in 1988 in front of over 60,000 Reading fans. Not bad, you have to admit. Would have won the FA Cup in 1927 if it wasn't for Cardiff!

So basically we did in the 1920s what Brighton did in the 1970s/early 80s. Except that my argument will never hold because I'm too young to remember the 1920s, whereas many on many counts there are people on here that remember the 70s/80s.

Examples of strong support? Well, the most fans from one team ever to go to Wembley, and until recently the most fans ever to go to the Millenium Stadium (overtaken by Bristol City last year who took 50,000).

In the Div 2 promotion season (you know, the one where you came... err... above us ), we managed to sell out over 20,000 on three occasions. Only Man City and now Sheffield Wednesday have managed that in god knows how long. Probably about 20 years (at a guess). The attendances that we had in the old Division 4 (back in the day) were some of the highest ever seen by that division. The next time you get a 23,500 attendance at home to Peterborough, be sure to give us a shout

There's no question about the support and potential of Brighton. We all know that. But it'd be nice to see a bit of notice for other clubs with similar potential. Gotta remember that we are both no more above quite a lot of clubs with a lot of potential.

Strangely, the only clubs I describe as "big" are Man Utd, Liverpool, etc, and the only clubs I reckon are "small" are the Macclesfield/Rochdale type of clubs. Everyone else is in the middle and that's where Brighton and Reading lay - in my opinion.

i THINK THAT SUMS IT UP

 

[Wilts]

You don't have the same fan base so if what we are talking about is big clubs then Brighton is Bigger.

Doing very well until that bit CS!

How? Stats please!??! I've just spent ages (offline, thank god!)describing why we don't know who has the most fans. Having been round Brighton, there's not many Albion shirts about as many people move to the place from elsewhere. Same with Reading. We both live in very big places but our potential is limited by the amount of people that "feel" like their are from the place. Everyone moves to our places because they are currently the "places to be" for workers and young un's.

P.S. Reading is not a commuter place! Have you seen the amount of work in the region? Something to do with (0118) phone numbers too, over 1.5 million phones in offices and the like. People commute to Reading rather than to London!

 

[NMH]

Who cares ?? We could argue about shopping malls and public bogs next, but it wouldn't make any difference. If we had 27 fans they would be more loyal than any of 25,000 royals.

Our ground is a temp., and so we cannot compare that stuff anyway.

Our love for our team runs deep and it has been recently saved from the brink. reading should be so lucky if they got in that position, but they may not have to worry about that.

I'd just much rather support any team like a Brighton and Hove Albion than a Reading. Reading had a good festival every year, but like the football, the fans that give a damn for who's playing all come from somewhere else.

We have the silverware, and we showed reading who the boss is, and took the Championship medals .

Nuff said, feck off royals .

 

[Stumpy Tim]

Who cares ??

We have the silverware, and we showed reading who the boss is, and took the Championship medals .

Fine quotes my good man. Answer to the first question is, not me. I support the Albion & couldn't care less whether other teams are bigger or smaller.

But I do care about our buckling trophy cabinet

 

[Brovion]

This "My dad's bigger than your dad debate" will run for a few years yet! However Stumpy dwayne, LB and the Reading fans are correct - currently by all criteria Reading ARE a bigger club than us. Yes we may have more potential and we have marginally more 'history' than them; Charity Shield Winners, FA Cup finalists, four seasons in the top flight (wow) but guys - it's not exactly Man U is is? By those criteria Cardiff are a far bigger club than us.

Times change. Preston and Blackpool were once bigger than Man U and Liverpool. Tottenham were bigger than Chelsea and we were bigger than Reading. All those have been turned on their heads. Chris Cattlin once said that Southampton could become a big club but Brighton could become a great club. I really don't care who is 'bigger' I just want to do my bit to make Cattlin's statement come true.

 

[Stumpy Tim]

This "My dad's bigger than your dad debate" will run for a few years yet! However Stumpy dwayne, LB and the Reading fans are correct

You missed a comma there! Unless you're saying that dwayne is stumpy. If so, how do you know??!!

 

[Albion Rob]

Big club, small club, doesn't change the dabate that Madjeski is a **** and that is where the whole episode stems from.

My biggest hope for today is that a sniper turns up if there is any press conference to announce SC as Reading boss and the sniper shoots that Madjeski wanker right through the brain.

 

[Brovion]

Whoops! Good spot! 'stumpy dwayne'. Hmmm. Never met the guy so I couldn't possible comment!

 

[Shizuoka Dolphin]

SOUR GRAPES COPPELLS LEAVING

Of course I'll be mighty pissed off if Coppell goes, but there's no sour grapes in pointing out ignorance.

Wilts - Intelligent poster. Knows his stuff and can construct a proper debate.

Royal: Fool. Only form of discussion consists off aimless ‘my dad’s bigger than your dad’ playground style posturing.

My initial posting remains - come back when you know what what you're talking about.

 

[BrightonBird]

I don't care who the "biggest club" is. All I know is:

1. Reading are a division above us. Although this would say that we are not as good, we are still able to beat teams like them (2-1 last year).

2. I dislike Reading as a club, not the fans, but the chairman who knows sod all about football and lots about running a business.

3. Reading have a better stadium, but I would say Brighton have a "better" fan base. WhatI mean is that our fans have been supporting the club for years, most Reading fans have switched since the Madjeski era.

Hopefully this debate will be carried on next year.

 

[Gary Nelson]

What a pleasant read on a Tuesday morning. Having read all the posts and taken in Wilts promotion of the club from the North I can only agree with Stumpy.
I honestly beleive that with a ground to rival the Mad Stad we are a bigger club. No doubt. Any team that can take the amount of fans to Boro, hartlepool and Rushden in 6 days that we did desreves a stadium like Readings. Until the ground is sorted we will always be a small club. End of. Im very suprised how well Reading have done over the last couple of years but seeing as they have that side of things sorted and a sound infrastructure, theres no reason why they cant be a solid Div 1 team for a long time and even perhaps to a West Brom for 1 season in a couple of years.
I think the worrying thing for Reading in terms of who is a bigger club although really it doesnt matter 2 shits, is that if they got relegated to Div 2, what crowds would they be getting again. Yes I see they got 23,500 against Peterborough but I would have thought that was a promotional gamer perhaps? I remember when we were getting crowds of 9,000 when we were BOTTOM of the third!! Crowds obviously depend on what league you are in, I just feel that Brighton have a bigger core base of fans that will watch the club regulary. If Reading have problems or Mad pulls out then how would they move on from there.
Therefore in all, Reading at present are a bigger club due to a combination of wages, finance and ground. On a level playing field I think we would a slightly bigger club.

 

[ditchy]

interesting statement from Brighton Bird...about fan base at Reading ie only since madjeski era...does this mean that once we get falmer we will get a new fan base...hope so ,becuase this coupled with the existing fan base will make us one helleva club..which is to say we arnt already

 

[Shizuoka Dolphin]

To a degree, I think a whole new lot of people will come to Falmer when it's built. I can see the frictions now prior to big sell-out games: "Where were you at The Goldstone!?" "Ever go to Withdean!?" and "What do you mean, 'Falmer's all down to Bellotti?!"

We have fun times ahead!

 

[fatbadger]

Strangely, the only clubs I describe as "big" are Man Utd, Liverpool, etc, and the only clubs I reckon are "small" are the Macclesfield/Rochdale type of clubs. Everyone else is in the middle and that's where Brighton and Reading lay - in my opinion.

Absolutely.

It continues to amuse me that people on here (and many others) seem to think we are a big club. Er, no we're not. 13th in the league is the highest position we have ever managed (although, of course, in the days of the Southern League we did manage to win the unofficial Champions of All England trophy that was the Charity Cup in those days). That's not big. Now, we are not a small team - as people have rightly said, judging us on Withdean's capacity is nonsensical - however, I really do despair at the over-optimistic quotes I hear all the time about how many we will get coming to watch at Falmer. We are classic Div1 material - good, solid fan base, some history without ever setting the world alight, and the ability to beat the best teams in the league when the occasion is right. I, for one, am extremely happy with that. And, fundamentally, I love this club, whether it's big, small, or medium.

 

[ChutneyStirrer]

I don't know or care who is the 'bigger' team, but I do look to Reading (amongst others) for inspiration as to what can be achieved by a club, in footballing terms, with a decent stadium. A proper income means you can sign players, keep players and managers. A stadium means you can fit in everyone that wants to come - kids especially.

As I understand it, apart from building an eponymous stadium, Madjeski hasn't pumped a whole load of cash into the playing side a la Romanivich. If this is the case we can look forward to a bright future that doesn't rely on one 'suger daddy' character and the future prosperity of the club will be safeguarded..... and thinking back over the last six years that will be a fecking miracle.

 

[Wilts]

I think it has gone a bit "my Dad's..." like some reckoned would happen.

Some quotes:

Fine quotes my good man. Answer to the first question is, not me. I support the Albion & couldn't care less whether other teams are bigger or smaller.

Absolutely top point. In fact, the smaller the club, often the more dedicated have some of the fans been. During the petrol strike, Oldham brought 12 fans to the Madejski Stadium on a Tuesday night to see their team lose 5-0. They still chanted (obviously couldn't be heard with such a small number) all night and stayed right til the end to applaud their team off. Them 12 were the most loyal and dedicated fans I had ever seen... Madejski himself even bought them all dinner after the game.

If Reading have problems or Mad pulls out then how would they move on from there.

Madejski has built the club so that it can run itself without him being there. Bear in mind that we are still paying off the stadium to a great deal with the income generated by the club. I know that he could pay it all off whenever he wants, but does put a large whack of our turnover towards the loan that was taken out for the ground. The turnover is the 2nd highest in the Nationwide league (behind West Ham), so I think that RFC is one of the most sustainable clubs in the entire league. If Madejski pulls the plug now, then we are fine. If he hands over the reigns to someone willing to continue the investment, then it can't go wrong.

All in all, I think that in the Prem we have one of the most sustainable infrastructures to continue up there. Only the "big" clubs, and possibly about 5 others have better youth academy, training facilities, and ability to capture players at a young age.

Falmer is the first step, but it isn't the be-all-and-end-all... however, it does need to happen very soon. The annual turnover of BHA is about £4m, whereas in Division One the average is about £8m. It takes more than just 10,000 new fans to get there! And remember that the costs of maintaining Falmer would be higher etc... Hence getting a youth academy set up should help to curb future expenditure on players. Nottingham Forest is an excellent example of how to bring up players rather than have to buy them in.

Right, banged on a bit there. Stopping now...

 

[Locky]

We currently have 5000 season ticket holders at Withdean, with the rest being allocated to others.
5000 was the maximum number the club were allowed to allocate.
I don't know how much a Reading ticket costs but at Brighton we pay £20.... Yes £20 to watch a second division game, and all the fans I talk to are happy to pay that. It keeps our club finacialy sound and helps pay the wages.
When our new Stadium finally gets built it is estimated that the number of season ticket holders will double, add that to the number of occasional supporters who can't get to all games, and supporters who can't afford the season ticket price and the number will increase.
When the new Stadium first opens, the number will obviously be even higher as everyone will want to have look.
Its impossible to tell how many we will get when the New Stadium opens, but My bet is it will be a lot higher than the 12,594 Reading got for last weeks home game.
To be honest with you I don't really care who the bigger team is, it matters not a jot to me.........This arguement can not possibly have a conclusion until We have our Stadium.
When we do come back see us Reading Fans.