World food crisis? Stop having kids.

[Gully]

Support Morgan Tsvangirai and Zimbabwe in whatever way possible when he becomes President. The land is still fertile, despite the fact that nothing much has been growing on it for a few years, don't think it would take too long to turn their agricultural system around...and thereby the nation would get back its ability to feed itself and also in time to export and bring in valuable income to the country.

The thing that I don't understand at the moment, Mugabe is in Rome, why can't he be arrested and put on trial in the Hague for crimes against humanity?

 

[goldstone]

More to the point why do we have to help them? Hav'nt we got enough problems within our own country to be getting on with? Under funded NHS, Under funding of education, crime, The rising cost of living, The list is endless Bof so should'nt charity begin at home?

Exactly. I certainly never voted to give millions of £s of aid to foreign countries so that fat cat dictators could line their pockets.

If we cut off aid maybe the third world countries would set about solving their own problems rather than waiting for the next hand-out. It would certainly help to concentrate their minds.

 

[Barrel of Fun]

The thing that I don't understand at the moment, Mugabe is in Rome, why can't he be arrested and put on trial in the Hague for crimes against humanity?

The Italians are receptive of men with small moustaches?

 

[Bevendean Hillbilly]

THis is the crux of the matter really. The whole world can see that Mugabe has ruined a once self sufficient country and will do absolutely anything to keep hold of power. Everyone knows he lost the last election and is now doing everything in his power to win the run-off later in the month, including starving/murdering people who do not support him.

Surely it is the UN who should have the power to do something, but they dont. It has been clearly shown in the last few weeks, particularly in Burma, that the UN has no power whatsoever to intervene, even though not intervening means the death of hundreds of thousands of innocent people.

Sort of like Hitler "interveneing" in the Soviet Union though aint it? we cant go around invading sovereign countries because we don't like their Goverments though can we? Oh, well if we discovered Oil in Zimbabwe we might think about it obviously.

Unfortunately there is nothing in it for us since the white farmers got the Spanish Archer.

 

[Barrel of Fun]

Africa needs to trade with the world and to pretend that they don't is risible, how else can Africans improve their lot than by gaining wealth?

I would never suggest that and if I wasn't clear then that is because I had lots of ideals swirling about.

There needs to be a balance as there are far too many huge corporations creaming off the profits with very little (relatively) in return AND depriving the nations of a real chance of food self-sufficiency.

 

[beorhthelm]

some people have got funny ideas of the world. hands up who would know the first thing about digging a well? just dig a hole right? but where? supposing you do know a good spot, how do stop it from collapsing in? how do you get the water up from 10, 25, 50ft down?

And do you think the gun totting militia you see went in to the local market and brought a AK47 instead of a shovel? or do you think maybe they were given it by someone who is not going to hand out shovels instead.

 

[sten_super]

The thing that I don't understand at the moment, Mugabe is in Rome, why can't he be arrested and put on trial in the Hague for crimes against humanity?

I don't know the full ins and outs, but I know that Mugabe and all members of his government are banned from entering/travelling in the EU. The only exception is for UN summits, when the EU has basically been told it HAS to let him in.

I think there needs to be more guidance from the other African countries. Mbeki has tip-toed around Mugabe, when instead he needed to show strong leadership and confront Mugabe. The problem with any European intervention, particularly British, is that it gives Mugabe ammunition to (as he has been doing) turn round and say "look, it is the old imperial oppressers who are at it again".

 

[Easy 10]

of course it is, thats the whole point. but you live with a nice welfare state, job oppurtunities and potential to fund a pension to see yourself through old age. If you live in many parts of Africa, the Indian subcontinent, SE Asia or parts of S. America, you dont have that privilage. you die if you are sick or too old to work, unless you have a large enough family to support you.

All of which is true. Look, of course its very easy for me to sit here and spout off on my keyboard from the comfort of an air-conditioned office. Which is precisely why I've done it 23,678 times before.

But for me, this fundemental fact remains. Putting causes and regimes and culture and history aside, these starving Africans should not be procreating to bring new life into an environment of death and suffering. They cannot support these children. They can do nothing to save thee children from having a short-lived, starved, diseased, miserable existance before their inevitable death.

So STOP f***ing.

 

[Barrel of Fun]

Exactly. I certainly never voted to give millions of £s of aid to foreign countries so that fat cat dictators could line their pockets.

If we cut off aid maybe the third world countries would set about solving their own problems rather than waiting for the next hand-out. It would certainly help to concentrate their minds.

Jesus Christ! :thud:

If you withdraw aid then millions upon millions of people will face almost instant death through no fault of their own. Still, it will help to concentrate their minds and teach them in the long run…

If you feel so strongly about it, then why don't you arrange to take personal responsibility of your taxation and refuse to pay it.

 

[Simster]

More to the point why do we have to help them? Hav'nt we got enough problems within our own country to be getting on with? Under funded NHS, Under funding of education, crime, The rising cost of living, The list is endless Bof so should'nt charity begin at home?

But our problems do not amount to mass starvation, destitution for millions, and a dictatorship government where corruption is rife. The problem with not helping them is that there are far too many factors that hinder any real progress in some of these places beyond the average man's control. We're not talking about people who sit around smoking dope, with a lifestyle of boorish lazyness in the full knowledge that the state will pick up the bill.

The odd thing about this argument is that while the world's population increases, it is the developed world (where population is stable) that continues to gobble up an increasingly large percentage of the world's natural resources, not these extra hungry mouths. The amount of beef you might put in your sandwich at lunch nowadays would have been considered enough to feed about 10 people at dinner time for all but the richest people only 100 years ago in Victorian Britain.

 

[Simster]

But for me, this fundemental fact remains. Putting causes and regimes and culture and history aside, these starving Africans should not be procreating to bring new life into an environment of death and suffering. They cannot support these children. They can do nothing to save thee children from having a short-lived, starved, diseased, miserable existance before their inevitable death.

But I feel you're missing the point. These people are not bringing kids into the world for a laugh. They are doing it because they need kids to be able to support them in their old age. It's about self preservation as well as survival instinct.

 

[Easy 10]

Wish I could afford beef sandwiches

 

[Simster]

Wish I could afford beef sandwiches

If you can't afford a beef sandwich, maybe you should STOP f***ing.


Or something.

 

[Easy 10]

But I feel you're missing the point. These people are not bringing kids into the world for a laugh. They are doing it because they need kids to be able to support them in their old age. It's about self preservation as well as survival instinct.

They're not even going to REACH old age with all the extra mouths they are bringing into their current desperate situation. They're just making an already horrendous situation even worse. Whats the point of worrying about what'll happen to you at 70, when the likelihood is theres a decent chance you're not even going to make your next birthday ? You're not improving your lot by reproducing a big family to try and feed.

 

[Les Biehn]

Exactly. I certainly never voted to give millions of £s of aid to foreign countries so that fat cat dictators could line their pockets.

If we cut off aid maybe the third world countries would set about solving their own problems rather than waiting for the next hand-out. It would certainly help to concentrate their minds.

I can't remember what the actual figures are but apparently the interest that the third world pays to the west on debts is more than they recieve in aid. Yet it would appear the weat doesn't want to give them a helping hand by actually scrapping some of this debt.

 

[Simster]

They're not even going to REACH old age with all the extra mouths they are bringing into their current desperate situation. They're just making an already horrendous situation even worse. Whats the point of worrying about what'll happen to you at 70, when the likelihood is theres a decent chance you're not even going to make your next birthday ? You're not improving your lot by reproducing a big family to try and feed.

And presumably you've not bothered with a pension in case you don't make it to old age yourself?

And the reason people don't make it to old age is rarely directly attributed directly to hunger.

 

[sten_super]

They're not even going to REACH old age with all the extra mouths they are bringing into their current desperate situation. They're just making an already horrendous situation even worse. Whats the point of worrying about what'll happen to you at 70, when the likelihood is theres a decent chance you're not even going to make your next birthday ? You're not improving your lot by reproducing a big family to try and feed.

I appreciate what you're saying, Easy, but it's human nature to reproduce. What you are effectively saying is that these people should go "f*** it, I'm happy to see the end of my line, to leave no mark on this place, as long as it serves the greater good". I'm afraid people don't look at it that way.

 

[Nibble]

They should eat the children. two birds, one stone an' all that.

 

[Easy 10]

And presumably you've not bothered with a pension in case you don't make it to old age yourself?

And the reason people don't make it to old age is rarely directly attributed directly to hunger.

The way we invest in our old age through pensions is one thing, we're fortunate enough to have that choice. And I appreciate that is not a choice those starving in Africa have the luxury of. But when they are in no position to feed or provide for themselves, then bringing a child (multiple children) into the here and now over some notion that in 15-20 years time they'll be grown up and looking after you, to me, is selfish, foolish and irresponsible. Yes I know its easy for me to say, but thats just my opinion, and it comes to mind every time I see vast swathes of the populace in famine, with most of them tiny children who are suffering the most horrendous conditions, who have barely a hope in hell of making it.

I appreciate what you're saying, Easy, but it's human nature to reproduce. What you are effectively saying is that these people should go "f*** it, I'm happy to see the end of my line, to leave no mark on this place, as long as it serves the greater good". I'm afraid people don't look at it that way.

I know they don't. But I honestly believe people in their situation should.

 

[Les Biehn]

Perhaps the Children should eat them?