Wolves in for Ashley Barnes

[severnside gull]

You are entitiled to your opinion, but based on 14 goals, 23 years old, a minimum of 1 year on his contract, everpresent in a top half side. I would be disgusted it we accepted £500k for Barnes. Bearing in mind we dismissed £1m+ for Noone who, in my opinion, contributed considerably less than Barnes and has a similar contract length, I just can't see such a low fee.

This is my opinion. Feel free to disagree.

FWIW I can tell you that Somerset will disagree - he has such a massive down on Barnes that if the lad scored a goal a game he would hark back on a missed defensive header or a misplaced pass in midfield as grounds to say that he is useless. Such is the way with football fans and footballers

 

[Mr Burns]

Look I am tired of getting slated for not feeling the Barnes vibe like some of you..... I am not a flamin novice here, plus supporting since 1977 gives me as much ability to gauge a player as anyone on here..... so, for the last time.... his stats are fine and welcome in the wider team context..... his ability IN MY VIEW is not however. "Still learning" you say.... fine.. but for how long. My assertion is that a player of more ability would have given us much more in the same positions with the same opportunities.

Noone has more direct impact and dynamism on a game, hence the Cardiff offer.

I know Gus rates him, but I think we can do better, and will need better to step up from tenth. 750k Max is my feeling if an offer came from Wolves..... unless they get fifteen million for fletcher, which may make them less frugal, but don't count on it, Wolves have big money issues.

You will find that amongst a lot of positives opinions on Barnes, people don't see past the stats, and thats there main ammo for their argument. That or repeating what Poyet says about him. Unfortuantely there are not stats on the times a player is in an excellent goal scoring position but fails to even get a shot off, or a stats for how many times a player mis places or fails to control a ten yard pass. If there were I'm sure Barnes would have pretty healthly numbers in those colums.

I think Barnes has improved over the past season or so, but I still think he falls well short of where were are now. But thats my opinion and I'll willing to chnage it, but don't see a need to. And those who are rating Barnes as a better player over CMS on here, seriously need to base there opinion on something other than available stats or just repeating what the bigger boys say.

During our championship season, you'd be hard pushed to find anyone rating Barnes over Murray. One season later to some Barnes is a gold nugget to Murrays pile of dog shit.

 

[Acker79]

i dont think anyone is saying that the system is poor because of the poor run, but that the run it highlights the system is has flaws. we have neither the quality of players across the squad to execute the style all the time, nor the flexibility to react tactically to those teams that stop us playing our system.

...

Managers who are so f***ing stubborn that they refuse to change the style their team plays, even though is obvious its not working as one win in ten games while chasing promotion clearly proves, shouldn't throw stones in glass houses.

My argument still stands. We won't get a team that can consistently and successfully play poyet's system over night, and with every promotion the squad will have to change again. It's unreasonable for us to introduce a new system with only a couple of personnel changes from a team struggling in league one and expect us to have a premier league level squad one and a half seasons later.

If we can't adapt when a team has countered our system, what makes you think they'd be able to adapt when our opponents work out our plan b (which will be known from all the times we change our system in previous games)? How many plans should we go out there with?

We are in agreement, it isn't flawless. We have to accept we will lose some games. But our system worked so well in league one, our players didn't have to adapt. This is the first season they would have been properly thwarted in their attempts to play that system, and they will learn. But some of our losses weren't about not being able to adapt, or not having a plan b, but just because it was the business end of the season, and many of our opponents, with much stronger squads, were playing for something the desperately wanted, probably more than we wanted it.

 

[somerset]

FWIW I can tell you that Somerset will disagree - he has such a massive down on Barnes that if the lad scored a goal a game he would hark back on a missed defensive header or a misplaced pass in midfield as grounds to say that he is useless. Such is the way with football fans and footballers

Oooo you cheeky blighter.... can't think where you may have got that idea about me from......

 

[Mr Burns]

How can you tell of no one counts them

EEEERr, because I've seen him go though a lot of times and not get a shot in. I use my own eyes to form an opinion, not stats that pop up on the internet.

 

[JBizzle]

Look I am tired of getting slated for not feeling the Barnes vibe like some of you..... I am not a flamin novice here, plus supporting since 1977 gives me as much ability to gauge a player as anyone on here..... so, for the last time.... his stats are fine and welcome in the wider team context..... his ability IN MY VIEW is not however. "Still learning" you say.... fine.. but for how long. My assertion is that a player of more ability would have given us much more in the same positions with the same opportunities.

Noone has more direct impact and dynamism on a game, hence the Cardiff offer.

I know Gus rates him, but I think we can do better, and will need better to step up from tenth. 750k Max is my feeling if an offer came from Wolves..... unless they get fifteen million for fletcher, which may make them less frugal, but don't count on it, Wolves have big money issues.

Sorry, where was I "slating you"? I thought I was quite fair and balanced in my disagreement of your opinion and clearly advised that you are as entitled to your opinion as I am of mine. Or should I first quote how long I have been watching/supporting the Albion first to establish my credibility?

 

[Mr Burns]

...




My argument still stands. We won't get a team that can consistently and successfully play poyet's system over night, and with every promotion the squad will have to change again. It's unreasonable for us to introduce a new system with only a couple of personnel changes from a team struggling in league one and expect us to have a premier league level squad one and a half seasons later.

If we can't adapt when a team has countered our system, what makes you think they'd be able to adapt when our opponents work out our plan b (which will be known from all the times we change our system in previous games)? How many plans should we go out there with?

We are in agreement, it isn't flawless. We have to accept we will lose some games. But our system worked so well in league one, our players didn't have to adapt. This is the first season they would have been properly thwarted in their attempts to play that system, and they will learn. But some of our losses weren't about not being able to adapt, or not having a plan b, but just because it was the business end of the season, and many of our opponents, with much stronger squads, were playing for something the desperately wanted, probably more than we wanted it.

And my argument still stands, you cannot win promotion with one system, unless you have a sqaud head and shoulders above the rest of the division, and whilst that was the case in League one, its never going to be the case in the championship.

Unless we buy a squad head and sholuders above the championship, we'll neve achive it, and we can't buy a squad of that quaility without premiership money. So we either go round in circles, or at least have the ability to change things around when we need to. Otherwise we'll for ever be a mid table chamionship side, and I'm fairly certain thats not Tony Blooms target,

 

[kevtherev]

I still think the jury is out on Barnes, although you wouldn't believe it to read this thread. So he has had a great pre season, so what....Towards the end of last season he looked like a rabbit caught in the headlights at times, looking to lay the ball off when the option to shoot looked the better option. I think Barnes is still work in progress, i'm warming to the lad but I still think there is a long way to go. Pre season and a man of the match performance against Chelsea in a meaningless game means a total of f*** all. I predict six games into a competitive season, where every game is vital and Barnes will be getting slatted again.

 

[Pavilionaire]

Ashley Barnes has proved me wrong and has come on leaps and bounds. I'd be surprised if he was sold.

 

[Acker79]

And my argument still stands, you cannot win promotion with one system, unless you have a sqaud head and shoulders above the rest of the division, and whilst that was the case in League one, its never going to be the case in the championship.

Unless we buy a squad head and sholuders above the championship, we'll neve achive it, and we can't buy a squad of that quaility without premiership money. So we either go round in circles, or at least have the ability to change things around when we need to. Otherwise we'll for ever be a mid table chamionship side, and I'm fairly certain thats not Tony Blooms target,

I disagree. If our aim is progression, we don't need a squad head and shoulders above the rest of the division, that's unrealistic expectations for any team playing any system, barring freak relegations.

Our league one team wasn't head and shoulders above every other squad in the division, yet we performed well enough. Partly the system, partly the unity, partly due to things just lining up for us.

But, we also don't have to storm a division to win it. It's not even a win the division or bust option. There's second place, then four play off spots. We only need to improve by at least four places to progress as a team. We don't need a team that plays the system so well we win every game. We were only 3 wins away from a play off spot, we only need 3 or 4 more wins than last season, and I believe the squad has been improved enough to achieve that, regardless of changing systems when it doesn't work.

 

[somerset]

Sorry, where was I "slating you"? I thought I was quite fair and balanced in my disagreement of your opinion and clearly advised that you are as entitled to your opinion as I am of mine. Or should I first quote how long I have been watching/supporting the Albion first to establish my credibility?

Relax, chill, have a lie down..... my post was before your interjection.... at least it was while I was typing...... my comment was referring to general slating re the Barnes debate over the last month or so, not you.

 

[JBizzle]

Relax, chill, have a lie down..... my post was before your interjection.... at least it was while I was typing...... my comment was referring to general slating re the Barnes debate over the last month or so, not you.

I thought I was quite calm and relaxed actually!

 

[Basil Fawlty]

Hopefully this is Rumour, and it stays a rumour. We ARE not a selling club anymore, especially to one of our Rivals in this Division.

 

[Acker79]

Hopefully this is Rumour, and it stays a rumour. We ARE not a selling club anymore, especially to one of our Rivals in this Division.

If the price is right, every club is a selling club.

 

[severnside gull]

to some Barnes is a gold nugget to Murrays pile of dog shit.

In case you missed the point....................... Barnes (nugget) plays for Brighton....................... Murray (dog shit) plays for Palace


poor example - could do better

 

[Basil Fawlty]

If the price is right, every club is a selling club.

But we don't need to sell anymore. We are not at Withdean, so they can take their offer and shove it. If they think Jarvis is worth more then £9 Million and Fletcher is worth £12 Million. Wolves really are a bunch of mugs, they didn't really set the Premiership on fire did they?!

 

[Pavilionaire]

I'm looking at this division and I'm thinking some decent teams have gone up but only one decent team has come down (Bolton). Blackburn are well fancied for promotion but I could see it going tits up for them. A good squad will be essential because every game's a battle, we'll need Barnes.

 

[hans kraay fan club]

Noone has more direct impact on a game
.

Nonsense

750k Max is my feeling if an offer came from Wolves.....

.

Anyone with Barnes stats / age at another Championship side, and people would put his value much higher.

, Wolves have big money issues.

No, they really don't. No idea where you got that from.

 

[Zebedee]

hopefully this is rumour, and it stays a rumour. We are not a selling club anymore, especially to one of our rivals in this division.

this

 

[hans kraay fan club]

For those who think Barnes is worth £500k, consider that his age, and his stats in his first full championship season are comparable with Jay Rodriguez, who just moved for £7m.