[Misc] Will the Unions bring everyone to their knees?

[Thunder Bolt]

I think this is the first of many walk outs and strikes as the financial pressures start to mount

I know the teachers are lining up as well.

 

[Yoda]

I’d say the “e ticket” thing is just as likely

But they don't need to. e-tickets are only worth doing if you're planning and buying in advance to take advantage of a "cheap" fare.

Simple solution, make the everyday ticket more reasonably priced, do away with e-tickets and just have the same tap in/out that TfL use on your credit/debit card so everyone is charged the same cheapest possible fare. It will do wonders to encourage the spur of the moment traveler which the industry need to bring back.

When we went to Wembley a few years ago for the cup semi-final we drove to Hillingdon and got the tube in. My friends that drove brought their returns from the machine as a return ticket. I on the other hand tapped in and out at each station using my debit card but went to Oxford Circus first to meet up with an old Spanish Student we had stay with us once who started supporting us from his time with us (and the Spanish/Latin influx we had at the time).

Needless to say, when I checked how much I had been charged, it was less than the others had been when they brought their return tickets.

 

[beorhthelm]

Really ? Conductors are always on trains I’ve been on. Albeit sometimes ‘hiding’ but still get off to do a visual check at every station.

I did not think they were allowed to run trains driver only

yeah, they pretty much always there, had checked tickets on about every journey ive been on except late night, football. the operators are allowed in some situations to run without the OBS (their fancy name now).

 

[Boroseagull]

Cheers. It depends what time of day I'm travelling. I Can't recall the exact prices. I just went on the trainline website and can't see how to buy concessions. I am 4/10 when it comes to navigating web pages and have never been able to get the prices I can get in the ticket office (albeit with only one of the staff there till I showed the others how to obtain the cheaper option).

The limited times I've used the trains in the UK I've used this site for cheapest options.. https://www.ticketysplit.co.uk/ However I wish it was as simple as Spain.

 

[Tom Hark Preston Park]

Quite. Just a trivial point. The best way for me to get to London and back is to buy an ordinary single up, and a 'super off peak return', the latter with an additional saving from my senior rail card. It took a clever person at Faversham station to work that one out for me. Previously when I had asked for the cheapest ticket for rush hour use was simply offered an ordinary return. The difference in price is around £10. If I travel up at just after 10.00 I don't need to buy the ordinary single and save £30. It is possible to buy these tickets from the machine but it requires two transactions and is quite complicated (not obvious when to attempt to apply the concession).

Watch yourself on the way back from London Town H. I accidentally hit the 'super off peak return' instead of the 'off peak return' fairly recently, and those don't work for an annoyingly big chunk of hours in the afternoon/evening. Got to Victoria about half four if memory serves and the guy on the barrier said I couldn't use it til half seven or something. Tho he took pity on me and let ne through anyway hurrah

 

[Harry Wilson's tackle]

Watch yourself on the way back from London Town H. I accidentally hit the 'super off peak return' instead of the 'off peak return' fairly recently, and those don't work for an annoyingly big chunk of hours in the afternoon/evening. Got to Victoria about half four if memory serves and the guy on the barrier said I couldn't use it til half seven or something. Tho he took pity on me and let ne through anyway hurrah

Interestingly the rules differ according to the franchise. The super off peak returns on the north kent line allow me to return when I like. This is one of the benefits of privatization - competition! Instead of travelling back to Brighton, you could have travelled more cheaply to Faversham. Sorted!


Oh.....hang on....

 

[Audax]

I've not read the majority of this thread (and probably won't come back after this post).

My view:

1. I do not support the tactics of the unions. Striking is an extremely blunt force tool that should only be used as the very last option.

But...

2. I understand why the workers have decided to strike.

And...

3. The current government is complicit in allowing events to unfold in such a way as to result in strike action. Indeed, I suspect they've deliberately taken a series of small behind-the-scenes deniable interventions that made this strike action more likely.

The government's claims of "not our fault, we can't get involved, it's for the union(s) and railways management to sort out" are very disingenuous. The government has oversight of the railways management and gives them "guidance" on how the railways should be run, determines funding levels, etc etc. Remains to be seen how much their grubby little fingers have been involved in this dispute getting to where it has, but I have no doubt those fingers have been involved.

On the flip side, I really don't agree with how the unions approach these disputes either. A lot of it is entrenched resistance to modernisation that needs to happen, and a failure to realise that without that modernisation even more damage (longer term) will be done to the livelihoods of the their members than if they accept (earlier) that change *will* happen. Where there are genuine safety concerns, I'll back them, but they need to be more flexible and open to compromise than I've seen happen historically. The unions are far too often defaulting to a hard "no" instead of negotiating options.

 

[Guinness Boy]

I'm not sure they have that power, but lets all hope so.

Given that the country, under the current administration, is on its arse, managing to get up onto our knees would be a move in the right direction.

Mouldy’s on his knees though, right under Boris’s fly.


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[Pavilionaire]

I think the chickens are coming home to roost.

Public sector workers have had sub-inflation pay increases for all of the Tories 12 years in power, but while inflation and interest rates were negligible they managed to cope. Now inflation is up at around 10% and interest rates on the rise there is no slack in people's budgets and things will get worse in the second half of the year.

Pensioners will get a double digit rise in line with the CPI, so it is not equitable to see RMT workers get significantly less than this.

The Tories love to divide and rule. Brexiteers against Remainers, now Employers vs Workers. It's all a political game. They'd probably love it if Northern Ireland kicked off again so they can play the 'Defenders of the Union' card.

 

[Swansman]

In the good old days of British Rail, my uncle was a porter, ticket office man, signal changer, and disabled person helper. He actually lived on the station in a BR house. That line was closed by the aforementioned Dr Beeching in 1963.

Progress eh?

I would have preferred something like that these days.

Indeed progress... towards something else, not necessarily something better.

 

[Tom Hark Preston Park]

Interestingly the rules differ according to the franchise. The super off peak returns on the north kent line allow me to return when I like. This is one of the benefits of privatization - competition! Instead of travelling back to Brighton, you could have travelled more cheaply to Faversham. Sorted!


Oh.....hang on....

Or, armed with that knowledge, could 'of' taken a South Eastern train from Victoria to Clapham Junction, then switched to a SASTA train to Brighton

 

[Chicken Run]

I know the teachers are lining up as well.

Any idea if the Bus drivers are lining up, also the blokes who put out street furniture prior to Road works commencing?

Ps building supplies HGV drivers?


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[portslade seagull]

I've not read the majority of this thread (and probably won't come back after this post).

My view:

1. I do not support the tactics of the unions. Striking is an extremely blunt force tool that should only be used as the very last option.

But...

2. I understand why the workers have decided to strike.

And...

3. The current government is complicit in allowing events to unfold in such a way as to result in strike action. Indeed, I suspect they've deliberately taken a series of small behind-the-scenes deniable interventions that made this strike action more likely.

The government's claims of "not our fault, we can't get involved, it's for the union(s) and railways management to sort out" are very disingenuous. The government has oversight of the railways management and gives them "guidance" on how the railways should be run, determines funding levels, etc etc. Remains to be seen how much their grubby little fingers have been involved in this dispute getting to where it has, but I have no doubt those fingers have been involved.

On the flip side, I really don't agree with how the unions approach these disputes either. A lot of it is entrenched resistance to modernisation that needs to happen, and a failure to realise that without that modernisation even more damage (longer term) will be done to the livelihoods of the their members than if they accept (earlier) that change *will* happen. Where there are genuine safety concerns, I'll back them, but they need to be more flexible and open to compromise than I've seen happen historically. The unions are far too often defaulting to a hard "no" instead of negotiating options.

In my experience after a strike has been sorted shortly afterwards jobs begin to be lost at a greater pace not necessarily in the depts that were striking as they are public facing. For some to win others within the company have to lose

 

[portslade seagull]

In the good old days of British Rail, my uncle was a porter, ticket office man, signal changer, and disabled person helper. He actually lived on the station in a BR house. That line was closed by the aforementioned Dr Beeching in 1963.

Progress eh?

If only some of those routes were still active, would save thousands of car journeys.

 

[Thunder Bolt]

In my experience after a strike has been sorted shortly afterwards jobs begin to be lost at a greater pace not necessarily in the depts that were striking as they are public facing. For some to win others within the company have to lose

Maybe some of the £500million profits could be used?

[tweet]1539299047567245312[/tweet]

 

[Neville's Breakfast]

2000 people losing their jobs, means no ticket offices (ticket machines rarely working) so no advice on the best types of ticket to buy, disabled people unable to get on trains, or off, because there’s no one to assist with the ramps. Females feeling unsafe because there’s no inspector/guard on board.

That’s just a small proportion of the problem. It might not affect you, but it does affect a large proportion of the population.

All of those things can be paid for from ticket sales in a nationalized rail service. No Government subsidies. No profits to share holders. It doesn’t matter if it affects me or not.

 

[Badger Boy]

I haven't heard Mick Lynch until yesterday but he is a very articulate man who has demolished the politicians and journalists interviewing him.
A worker has the right (at the moment) to withdraw their labour. It was legally put to a ballot and 89% voted in favour of striking. That's democracy.
A strike is meant to inconvenience people, so they can see the value of the work being done. From what I've seen many people are quite supportive of their actions.

Wait til we get the legal profession striking about the court closures, and legal aid practically removed.

Demolished. That kind of hyperbole is what's wrong with the discussion in the media. It doesn't mean anything and just entrenches everyone in their opinion. Nobody is going to change their position and when you're presented with trash articles about "so and so demolishes MP during debate", it just continues to reduce the tone of the conversation and it doesn't help anyone.

I have no argument that the Union have correctly proceeded with the process of organising the walkout and there's no doubt that the members overwhelmingly support the action. But if you're unhappy in your job and you're offered the chance to strike, of course you're going to vote for it. The Union have successfully sold the idea to the members. I find it hard to believe that anyone who relies on the rail network to go about their life enjoyed their experience yesterday and I don't believe the majority of the country support the strikes - although that's purely my opinion and not supported by any metrics.

I am very sad at the state of society currently. It's not just the railways, it's all of society. The problems we currently have do not have a quick fix and we're only going to get more and more divided. I find it incredibly depressing that the divisions in society are so deep and everyone is so entrenched in their views that we're not going to make things better. Once this round of strikes are over and the workers have accepted a payrise of 5-8% (it almost certainly won't be more, and the Union won't accept less) - you know for certain that another industry will be next.

 

[Stato]

But if you're unhappy in your job and you're offered the chance to strike, of course you're going to vote for it.

I'm not clear what you mean by this. Perhaps I haven't understood you properly, but strike ballots often don't result in strikes. In my experience, short of a few zealots who dream that its going to bring down the state, nobody wants to go on strike. Its not throwing a sickie. Everybody who does it suffers financially by doing so and large numbers of them still spend their unpaid day at work standing on a picket line.

 

[rippleman]

Demolished. That kind of hyperbole is what's wrong with the discussion in the media. It doesn't mean anything and just entrenches everyone in their opinion. Nobody is going to change their position and when you're presented with trash articles about "so and so demolishes MP during debate", it just continues to reduce the tone of the conversation and it doesn't help anyone.

I have no argument that the Union have correctly proceeded with the process of organising the walkout and there's no doubt that the members overwhelmingly support the action. But if you're unhappy in your job and you're offered the chance to strike, of course you're going to vote for it. The Union have successfully sold the idea to the members. I find it hard to believe that anyone who relies on the rail network to go about their life enjoyed their experience yesterday and I don't believe the majority of the country support the strikes - although that's purely my opinion and not supported by any metrics.

I am very sad at the state of society currently. It's not just the railways, it's all of society. The problems we currently have do not have a quick fix and we're only going to get more and more divided. I find it incredibly depressing that the divisions in society are so deep and everyone is so entrenched in their views that we're not going to make things better. Once this round of strikes are over and the workers have accepted a payrise of 5-8% (it almost certainly won't be more, and the Union won't accept less) - you know for certain that another industry will be next.

What are "trash articles" to you are "information articles" to me. I find it refreshing to hear Lynch give a direct answer to a direct question. How many times has the bc or one of his lakeys answered a question with "what the people want to know.........". Avoiding all questions is what the Tories do best.

I particularly enjoyed Lynch demolishing the vacuus Kay Burley. Ask a series of totally moronic, politically biased questions and get a series of direct answers that made her look oh so stupid.

I've quite taken to this Lynch fella.

 

[Thunder Bolt]

I'm not clear what you mean by this. Perhaps I haven't understood you properly, but strike ballots often don't result in strikes. In my experience, short of a few zealots who dream that its going to bring down the state, nobody wants to go on strike. Its not throwing a sickie. Everybody who does it suffers financially by doing so and large numbers of them still spend their unpaid day at work standing on a picket line.

Correct. I have belonged to two unions in my time. The first was for the energy company in Yorkshire which was for 25 years. We had quite a few ballots in that time, non of which resulted in a strike.

The second was my last job as a civil servant which lasted for 8 years. We had three one day strikes in that time, all balloted.