Will 'marriage' one day be a thing of the past?

[SULLY COULDNT SHOOT]

One of the no, nos for an illegal is to draw attention to yourself. Believe me it's no laughing matter if your are legally married to a long term non EEC partner (this includes Americans, Canadians and Antipodeans). The Immigration people are more than up to speed with fake marriages.

More than up to speed is an understatement... I know it will be a surprise to many but the hoops that non-EU nationals have to go through even when married with kids to EU nationls for many years is ridiculous.

Although my wife had a unlimited residence visa when she lived in the UK, next year she will have to apply for a visa again and then stand in the two mile long non-EU queues while her husband and children waltz through the UK channel. If we wereen't married it would be MUCH worse.

In many ways in an international society, marriage conveys on your priveliges that would otherwise be denied you.

 

[Gwylan]

I agree that you should not go into marriage considering what may happen if it splits, however the sad truth is that 50% marriages in this country do end in divorce.
.

Divorce rates are falling and are nowhere near the figure you're quoting _ I believe that this is the fourth successive year that divorce rates have fallen.

Latest figures 11.5 divorces per 1000 married people.

BBC News - Divorce rate lowest for 29 years

 

[beorhthelm]

Anyway,you miss my point re the committment of marriage so there is little I can say except repeat the fact that parents who are unmarried are more likely to split up than those parents who are married!

you repeat the "fact" yet still dont even offer a source? my point is asking if there is any evidence that co-habiting unmarried parents are more likly to seperate that those that went through a marriage ceramony. the "committment" towards marriage is a falicy in this day.

Latest figures 11.5 divorces per 1000 married people.

BBC News - Divorce rate lowest for 29 years

how does that tally with the commonly heard 1 in 3 or what ever marriages end in divorce? lies and statistics. anyway, important point made in there is that the divorce rate is lowering because fewer are getting married in the first place.

 

[Uncle C]

Divorce rates are falling and are nowhere near the figure you're quoting _ I believe that this is the fourth successive year that divorce rates have fallen.

Latest figures 11.5 divorces per 1000 married people.

BBC News - Divorce rate lowest for 29 years

But thats per year, which is not the same thing at all.

"Forty-three percent of first marriages end in divorce, according to the National Center for Health Statistics"

The 50% figure comes from the USA, where incidentally second marriages have a failure rate of about 64% and third marriages about 78%.

 

[SULLY COULDNT SHOOT]

you repeat the "fact" yet still dont even offer a source? my point is asking if there is any evidence that co-habiting unmarried parents are more likly to seperate that those that went through a marriage ceramony. the "committment" towards marriage is a falicy in this day.




how does that tally with the commonly heard 1 in 3 or what ever marriages end in divorce? lies and statistics. anyway, important point made in there is that the divorce rate is lowering because fewer are getting married in the first place.

Very confused by this.... you start by discounting one piece of information because there is no source and then discount the second beacuse even though there is a source it is wrong because 'Commonly-held belief' is more reliable. There used to be a commonly-held belief that the world was flat.

 

[bhaexpress]

More than up to speed is an understatement... I know it will be a surprise to many but the hoops that non-EU nationals have to go through even when married with kids to EU nationls for many years is ridiculous.

Although my wife had a unlimited residence visa when she lived in the UK, next year she will have to apply for a visa again and then stand in the two mile long non-EU queues while her husband and children waltz through the UK channel. If we wereen't married it would be MUCH worse.

In many ways in an international society, marriage conveys on your priveliges that would otherwise be denied you.

I am having all sorts of problems with my other half, what is a tad ironic is that ALL of the people I have corresponded with have Asian names. What is even more infuriating is that a lot of the people at her nearest Embassy are not even British. Your last sentence is very accurate.

 

[Rusthall Seagull]

I am having all sorts of problems with my other half, what is a tad ironic is that ALL of the people I have corresponded with have Asian names. What is even more infuriating is that a lot of the people at her nearest Embassy are not even British. Your last sentence is very accurate.

why don't you just swap her for one of those then ?

 

[Gwylan]

But thats per year, which is not the same thing at all.

That's not relevant - here are the statistics for the last 38 years and there's not too much discrepancy
National Statistics Online

What it is though is a sample of all married people, not marriages, so the percentage of marriages ending in divorce will be higher. It will be under 40 percent though as it was 43% five years ago and divorces have fallen since then.

you repeat the "fact" yet still dont even offer a source? my point is asking if there is any evidence that co-habiting unmarried parents are more likly to seperate that those that went through a marriage ceramony. the "committment" towards marriage is a falicy in this day.


how does that tally with the commonly heard 1 in 3 or what ever marriages end in divorce? lies and statistics. anyway, important point made in there is that the divorce rate is lowering because fewer are getting married in the first place.

I'm interested in this too. I know that 25% of couples with kids end up breaking up. But according to the ONS 50% of divorcing couples have kids so I can't see that the difference between non-married and married parents splitting up is that great.

 

[beorhthelm]

Very confused by this.... you start by discounting one piece of information because there is no source and then discount the second beacuse even though there is a source it is wrong because 'Commonly-held belief' is more reliable. There used to be a commonly-held belief that the world was flat.

im questioning a claimed "fact" in one point, while wondering how true the commonly held view is in the other and i didnt qualify it as a substantial fact. not that confusing. its perfectly possible both are true, both are false or other. i'd like to know which.

alot of statistics and facts dont make sence when cross referenced to others, somtimes even when they come from the same authotitive source such as ONS.

 

[Pavilionaire]

What's everybody's anecdotal evidence about divorce rates?

I'm 41 so most of my wider circle have been married for between 3-15 years. About 5-10% of my friends are divorced.

I think people are generally leaving marriage 'til later in life, having sown their wild oats and travelled before tying the knot. This seems to give marriage a better chance of working.

 

[SULLY COULDNT SHOOT]

im questioning a claimed "fact" in one point, while wondering how true the commonly held view is in the other and i didnt qualify it as a substantial fact. not that confusing. its perfectly possible both are true, both are false or other. i'd like to know which.

alot of statistics and facts dont make sence when cross referenced to others, somtimes even when they come from the same authotitive source such as ONS.

Thats a bit clearer. cheers. You are absolutely right... what this comes down to of course is you cant trust anything. everything, including statistics are perspective. You usually rely on the WEIGHT of different statistics saying the same thing... which I suspect you won't find on NSC.

 

[BLOCK F]

BEO,there is plenty of statistical evidence....The ONS,The British Household Panel Survey,The Institute for Social and Economic Research,Every Family Matters Study and Report by Ian Duncan Smith.
Look it up for yourself....for instance,look for Prof.John Ermisch's mutterings on the subject...he is from the Institute for Social and Economic Research.

 

[bhaexpress]

why don't you just swap her for one of those then ?

Eh ?

 

[cunning fergus]

the fact three utterly different religions share a common cultural trait is my point, its not in their religion, its a regional tradition. i wonder if SE asian or african muslims go in for arranged marriage?[/QUOTE]

Boerthelm are you for real?

To be absolutely clear if the UK Govt decided that arranged marriages were essentially medieval and were not consistent with our views on freedom and human rights you think that that Sikh, Hindu and Muslim religous leaders in the UK would support such a move on the basis that it is a 'regional traditon' in the sub contininent. Seriously yes or no?

Still interested in how you formed the opinion that arrsnged marriages help busy families, please do develop your view for us flat earthers?

As for whether arranaged marriages exist outside the religous communities in the sub continent, well UNICEF indicate the following:

Child marriage is a violation of human rights. WPF and IHEU therefore urge all governments to end child marriage: a practice in which the parents of a child arrange a marriage with another child or an adult. In most cases young girls get married off to significantly older men when they are still children. Child marriages must be viewed within a context of force and coercion, involving pressure and emotional blackmail, and children that lack the choice or capacity to give their full consent. Child marriage must therefore always be considered forced marriage because valid consent is absent - and often considered unnecessary. Child marriage is common practice in Niger, Chad, Mali, Bangladesh, Guinea, Burkina Faso, Central African Republic, Mozambique, Nepal, Uganda and Cameroon, where over 50% of girls are married by the age of 18. More than 30% of girls are married by the age of 18 in another eighteen countries, mostly in Asia and Africa. Poverty, protection of girls, fear of loss of virginity before marriage and related family honour, and the provision of stability during unstable social periods are suggested as significant factors in determining a girl’s risk of becoming married as a child. Statistics show that child marriage is most common among the poorest groups in society.

You my son are a ignorant wanker.

 

[Juan Albion]

The 50% figure comes from the USA, where incidentally second marriages have a failure rate of about 64% and third marriages about 78%.

I believe those numbers could be seriously reduced by cutting the number of trailer parks permitted.

 

[nwgull]

I don't know much about stats but my opinion on marriage in this day an age is that unless you're particularly religous, it makes little difference to relationships. I currently know of 2 couples getting married, in both cases it has been initiated and driven by the female partner, who appears to be focussed on the big day fairy tale wedding stuff more than the actual marriage itself. In one case the couple are spending in the region of 15-20K of their savings on their wedding, rather than use that money as a deposit on a house!

This may be a one sided point of view (as I'm a bloke), but the advantages of marriage seem very one sided to me with regard to financial security. I have known numerous men getting shafted in divorce settlements, but can't think of any examples where the man comes out of a divorce better off than he was before he got married. Those who go into marriage believing that it's no different to being in a long term relationship will get a big shock if/when the relationship goes sour and one of the partners decides they want out.

 

[beorhthelm]

You my son are a ignorant wanker.

thats nice. i was posing a question, so now im ignorant? i suppose i am, that why i wanted more knowledge. 50% is it in those (multi-faith) nations*, thats alot more than i'd have thought. however, its a shame you cant see outside the box a little, even when your own quote points out the very much non-religious reasons for arranged marriages:

Poverty, protection of girls, fear of loss of virginity before marriage and related family honour, and the provision of stability during unstable social periods are suggested as significant factors in determining a girl’s risk of becoming married as a child. Statistics show that child marriage is most common among the poorest groups in society.

* at the risk of labouring the point, list includes several where islam is a minority and several where christianity is a majority.

 

[beorhthelm]

.................

 

[Gwylan]

I don't know much about stats ... but the advantages of marriage seem very one sided to me with regard to financial security. I have known numerous men getting shafted in divorce settlements, but can't think of any examples where the man comes out of a divorce better off than he was before he got married.

Clearly you don't know much about stats.

It's quite well known that men tend to be much better off after a divorce, women much worse off,

There have been many, many studies on this:

See here
http://www.guardian.co.uk/lifeandstyle/2009/jan/25/divorce-women-research
and here
Divorced men better off but not happier
and here
Women worse off after divorce - Telegraph
and here
BBC NEWS | Business | Divorce 'makes men richer'

and here
http://www.independent.co.uk/news/uk/home-news/why-divorce-makes-women-the-poorer-sex-1515463.html
and here
Mothers and divorce: legal, economic ... - Google Books


I'm sure that it would be possible to find many more - that's from a quick five minute search.

I have no intention whatsoever of leaving my partner and kids but I do know that financially I would be better off (but certainly, far, far, far unhappier)

 

[Tony Meolas Loan Spell]

I have no intention whatsoever of leaving my partner and kids but I do know that financially I would be better off (but certainly, far, far, far unhappier)

Really? Following my wifes affair and her wrecking the marriage, I would say she is better off as she got the house, custody of the kids and I pay child support.

So Im much WORSE off!