Will 'marriage' one day be a thing of the past?

[Wilko]

If you meet someone you want to share a house with, have kids with, form a family with then the answer is simple - be a man and get married.

The bottom line is there's no excuse for not getting married, even if it's a simple civil ceremony.

You could turn that whole argument on its head though and say 'share a house, have kids, form a family'- there is no reason to get married?

 

[cunning fergus]

fair enough. but you do seem to be over doing this thing about the immigrants affecting the issue and in particular going on about arranged marriage. the majority of immigration is from east europe (though as good catholics they probably get married). arranged marriage isnt really a religious thing either, its more a practical social solution to how to deal with large busy families. if your not so pretty daughter or workoholic son dont find a partner, you get them married off to get them out the house. theres no scripture in islam, sikhism or hinduism to promote it as far as i know, and the Jews are partial to it in a more subtle form too.

definatly agree the cost of a big wedding is an issue, but that might be overstated as i dont think the majority of people end up having fancy expensive events, its more a misguided perception that its common and expected. i have cousins who i'm convinced are delaying marriage for this reason.

For my benefit what is fair enough and what am I over exaggerating?

I don't think I have been disingenuos on this thread. My point has been that because arranged marriages are practiced by immigrant communities as these communites grow so we will se more arranged marriages? Is that fair?

I evidently think it is and therefore it is impossible in any mature discussion not to link immigration with the practice of arranged marriage.

You say that 'its not really a religous thing' and if that's your view fair enough however I think that's semantics. Arranged marriage is culturally endemic in the Indian sub continent across Sikh, Muslim and Hindu communities and for these groups (in the UK and Sub Continent) I think its difficult to seperate religion and culture.

To illustrate my point, if the practice was banned in the UK for (say) human rights reasons do you think the faith leaders of those communities would shrug their shoulders and say it has noting to do with their respective doctrines?

Why it takes place is interesting and you certainly have a quaint take on the practice; how did you form that view?

I disagree (no surprise) but would agree that there are many factors involved (e.g. Caste, paternal control, gender discrimination). Funnily enough the practice of dowries (another cultural factor) is a primary factor in why cousins are married off to cousins, this way the money stays in the family. Clever eh?

Well not quite, this has lead to gentic difficulties in the immigrant communities that do this, dont take my word check out Anne Cryer's website on her experiences in her constituency (Labour MP for Keighley).

I think my post to Wilko confirms why I think the rise will be more than infantesimal. It's a free country at the moment though so we can all have our views.

If I was really on a anti immigration juant I would have added sham marriages but I didn't did I? Ooops.

 

[bhaexpress]

Interesting, I'm going to get married for the third time this year. There's a practical reason for it as there was the second time. I have no problem with marriage and in fact as it's an integral part of some religions it's not likely do die out.

 

[Stumpy Tim]

I'm not particularly religious, but was very proud to marry my wife. We made it into a big day - church wedding, 100 guests - and would do exactly the same if the clock was wound back.

For me, weddings are more than just about two people (though that is a large part of it). A wedding is about declaring in front of everyone you both cherish that you're making a life-long commitment to the person next to you. Do you NEED to do that? Probably not. We just wanted to & both had the best day of our lives.

As someone said before, marriage will go in cycles.. up & down. As a society starts leaning one way, the next generation will go the other. That's human nature

 

[beorhthelm]

For my benefit what is fair enough

that was acknowledgement the OP raised secularism not yourself.

and what am I over exaggerating?

the significance of south asian religions and arranged marriages to the over all UK population.

I don't think I have been disingenuos on this thread. My point has been that because arranged marriages are practiced by immigrant communities as these communites grow so we will se more arranged marriages? Is that fair?

I evidently think it is and therefore it is impossible in any mature discussion not to link immigration with the practice of arranged marriage.

You say that 'its not really a religous thing' and if that's your view fair enough however I think that's semantics. Arranged marriage is culturally endemic in the Indian sub continent across Sikh, Muslim and Hindu communities and for these groups (in the UK and Sub Continent) I think its difficult to seperate religion and culture.

the fact three utterly different religions share a common cultural trait is my point, its not in their religion, its a regional tradition. i wonder if SE asian or african muslims go in for arranged marriage?

 

[SULLY COULDNT SHOOT]

Marriage will be a thing of the past where? I really hate all these english-speaking ethnocentric researchers who think only the US, UK and parts of Europe are worth including in research. It's bollocks. Globally, marriage is increasing as it becomes clear that legal systems cannot codify the responsibilities of indivduals in a wide variety of different informal relationships and the need remains in the human being for security in their life.

Not everywhere is like England.

Now having read this I find some very strange views.

I got married for next to nothing. Only my wife and our parents and best man were present and we went to a reaturant and had a meal after. Marriage is not expensive... people's expectations are.

Secondly, marriage is way of men choosing a partner etc? Again I think the less ethnocentric sociologists would disagree with you. In many many societies marraige is actually the vehicle that gives women power. Until they are married they are almost non-entities. Once they are married and , especially, have chidren , they become major decision makers and opinion influencers in almost any society, particularly in eastern Europe and Muslim countries. Not that I necessariy agree with this. My wife dominated me even BEFORE we got married !

 

[Wilko]

Marriage will be a thing of the past where? I really hate all these english-speaking ethnocentric researchers who think only the US, UK and parts of Europe are worth including in research. It's bollocks. Globally, marriage is increasing as it becomes clear that legal systems cannot codify the responsibilities of indivduals in a wide variety of different informal relationships and the need remains in the human being for security in their life.

Not everywhere is like England.

Now having read this I find some very strange views.

I got married for next to nothing. Only my wife and our parents and best man were present and we went to a reaturant and had a meal after. Marriage is not expensive... people's expectations are.

Secondly, marriage is way of men choosing a partner etc? Again I think the less ethnocentric sociologists would disagree with you. In many many societies marraige is actually the vehicle that gives women power. Until they are married they are almost non-entities. Once they are married and , especially, have chidren , they become major decision makers and opinion influencers in almost any society, particularly in eastern Europe and Muslim countries. Not that I necessariy agree with this. My wife dominated me even BEFORE we got married !

Read the original post again, the prediction was about the UK. In no way is there any suggestin that this would be a global practice.

 

[SULLY COULDNT SHOOT]

Read the original post again, the prediction was about the UK. In no way is there any suggestin that this would be a global practice.

If so, fine but also unlikely because England is no longer 'an island'.

 

[Perkino]

I hope that's not the case. I'd love to be married one day. I am one of the few I'd imagine who wants to be with someone for the rest of my life, and to have that affirmed by marriage. I'm very much a romantic!

I'm with you on this one.

One day I hope to meet someone who will stick with me through thick and thin. and someone who will let me love them.


I think alot of girls still dream about their wedding day when they are older, so it's just commitment fearing men who stray away from marriage

 

[Wilko]

I'm with you on this one.

One day I hope to meet someone who will stick with me through thick and thin. and someone who will let me love them.


I think alot of girls still dream about their wedding day when they are older, so it's just commitment fearing men who stray away from marriage

Many of the males in the interviews stated they did not want to get married for many reasons but not due to lack of commitment. Cost and fear of losing it all if the marriage went tits up were common suggestions. I do not think lack of commitment was really noted as a key reason for not getting married.

As I mentioned earlier, I would get married but the thought of spending £20,000 on material nothingness, 3 months wages on a ring, standing at the front of a church and having to discuss centre pieces and what type of flowers to have for 12 months does not really appeal to me. These factors would put me off marriage more than the covenant of being married.

 

[sam86]

Interesting, I'm going to get married for the third time this year.

Bloody hell! It's only April.

 

[bhaexpress]

Bloody hell! It's only April.

I admit it, I'm addicted to wedding cake

 

[strings]

Interesting stuff.

I'm going to elaborate on my earlier poat a little. I actually would get married, however I know it is off the table with my current partner. I think it is good to make a commitment for life, however for me it is not a deal breaker that my current partner has no interest in marriage. Having said that, I see no problem with cohabiting. I would even go so far to say it is a good thing to live with a partner before you make a lifetime commitment.

 

[User removed 4]

I doubt it , I mean how else are illegal immigrants meant to win the right to stay here ?

 

[BLOCK F]

and im say ing i dount there are decent stats to back that up. who tracks unmarried partners with children? how accurate are the married stats which are tracked, when you consider all the astranged marriages. fact is you can walk out the door just as easy with a marriage certificate as without.

BEO,
I think the stats are pretty accurate and are accepted even by those who do not believe in marriage....except you apparently!
Anyway,you miss my point re the committment of marriage so there is little I can say except repeat the fact that parents who are unmarried are more likely to split up than those parents who are married!

 

[bhaexpress]

I doubt it , I mean how else are illegal immigrants meant to win the right to stay here ?

One of the no, nos for an illegal is to draw attention to yourself. Believe me it's no laughing matter if your are legally married to a long term non EEC partner (this includes Americans, Canadians and Antipodeans). The Immigration people are more than up to speed with fake marriages.

 

[Perkino]

fear of losing it all if the marriage went tits up were common suggestions. [/QUOTE]

Does this not come into a fear of commitment?

If you are both faithfully commited to each other how will it all go tits up?


Marriage is about deciding to honour someone before yourself in every decision you make. weather or not you stay in the pub for another round after you promised your wife you would be home by 11:00...

 

[BLOCK F]

Many of the males in the interviews stated they did not want to get married for many reasons but not due to lack of commitment. Cost and fear of losing it all if the marriage went tits up were common suggestions. I do not think lack of commitment was really noted as a key reason for not getting married.

As I mentioned earlier, I would get married but the thought of spending £20,000 on material nothingness, 3 months wages on a ring, standing at the front of a church and having to discuss centre pieces and what type of flowers to have for 12 months does not really appeal to me. These factors would put me off marriage more than the covenant of being married.

You don't have to do any of the above.....that is an extravagant wedding day....not a marriage.Our's cost zilch....Register Office then down our local pub!

 

[Wilko]

I agree that you should not go into marriage considering what may happen if it splits, however the sad truth is that 50% marriages in this country do end in divorce.

I think some males in the interviews stated that if a marriage were to split then they would be more likley to lose the house, the kids etc. Not saying I agree but that was some of common feedback.

 

[Acker79]

There's the streotype of guys not wanting to get married. Ruining relationships for fear of "just a bit of paper"
There's the stereotype of women growing up dreaming of marriage, investing so much meaning and virtue of their relationship in "just a bit of paper"
There's millions of gay people who have fought or are fighting for the right to "just a bit of paper"
There's millions of people who have fought and are fighting to stop gay people getting the right to "just a bit of paper"

Seems to me that it might be a lot more than "just a bit of paper"

I don't understand why people are equating marriage with being religious. You don't have to be a believer in a god to get married

I think the guy's thinking would be along the lines of "Most religions actively promote marriage. Co-habiting or bearing children outside of wedlock is seen as bad, thus followers of the religion feel obligated to marry. As the numbers of religious people decline (which happens when secularism grows), there will be fewer people feeling obliged to get married."

In many many societies marraige is actually the vehicle that gives women power. Until they are married they are almost non-entities. Once they are married and , especially, have chidren , they become major decision makers and opinion influencers in almost any society, particularly in eastern Europe and Muslim countries.

But in that situation they have a reliance on the man, they need the man to have someone to marry, and their power lies in that union, not in the woman herself, surely?