Why did I BOTHER with the Lib Dems?

[Biscuit]

There are two parties really. Labour and Conservative. A vote for any other is just a waste really.

Simplistic but in a way correct. We have a two party system. Introducing a third party is just f***ing the whole thing up. It was PC crap that even gave the Libs a platform on the bullshit Americanised TV debate. They should not have been there.

 

[Superphil]

There goes my gap year, and possibly my application altogether. Its an absolute joke of a decision, it really is simply pushing the lower classes out of higher education, an oppurtunity which should be open to all.
f***ing Sickening.

Take a step back. If you go to university you will expect to get your degree, and then get a job earning let’s say around £25K (for sake of argument). You'll be paying around 20p in the pound in tax on that, so your annual income tax will be about £4K taking into account your personal allowance.

Now then, if the successive governments over the past 20 years hadn't been so obsessed with cutting taxes you'd be paying 30p in the pound income tax, about £6K, so you're £2k up on the deal compared to how it was for those of us in our 40s.

You'll be expecting to pay some of your student debt off anyway once you get a job, well, you can add an additional £2K a year to your payments in lieu of what the government has already done for you by reducing income tax.

I'm not saying it's easy, but it isn't as black a picture as many paint. And you'll have the satisfaction to know that you were responsible for your own success, rather then those who don't have anything to do with university education, who in the past have been unfairly taxed to pay for others to have that opportunity.

 

[Dandyman]

I see nothing wrong in someone who doesn't pay UK Tax advising on government spending. It could be argued he is a disinterested party and therefore able to give an objective view. Ofcourse, the sneering Guardian and its silver spoon in the mouth socialist readers won't see it that way.

Please tell me this is a wind-up.

Someone who dodges their responsibility to the country (which is what tax avoidance is) then has the gall to accept a commission to tell a bunch of millionaires how best to screw over the vast bulk of modestly paid tax payers? It would be called fantasy if it was a TV series.

 

[sten_super]

Please tell me this is a wind-up.

Someone who dodges their responsibility to the country (which is what tax avoidance is) then has the gall to accept a commission to tell a bunch of millionaires how best to screw over the vast bulk of modestly paid tax payers? It would be called fantasy if it was a TV series.

Just to play devils advocate here...

We all (well, most of us) here engage in tax avoidance. Does anyone have an ISA? Claim child tax credits? Pay money into a pension? These are all forms of tax avoidance. Why is it okay for the 'common man' but not for others?

 

[hans kraay fan club]

Just to play devils advocate here...

We all (well, most of us) here engage in tax avoidance. Does anyone have an ISA? Claim child tax credits? Pay money into a pension? These are all forms of tax avoidance. Why is it okay for the 'common man' but not for others?

Devil's Advocate?

What a load of SHIT.

 

[Simster]

Just to play devils advocate here...

We all (well, most of us) here engage in tax avoidance. Does anyone have an ISA? Claim child tax credits? Pay money into a pension? These are all forms of tax avoidance. Why is it okay for the 'common man' but not for others?

HKFC is right, you're talking bollocks here aren't you?

Please tell me you're not comparing the decision to ferret a few grand away into a tax free ISA with wholesale avoidance of tax to the tune of tens of millions. Morally, that is just plain WRONG.

 

[sten_super]

Devil's Advocate?

What a load of SHIT.

What is, exactly? If you are serious about wanting to stop tax avoidance, these are some of the easiest loops to close, and would no doubt contribute a fair amount to the coffers as well.

edit: in response to Simster; it depends whether you are talking about avoidance or evasion. I'm all for stopping all kinds of evasion. Avoidance though is (relatively) carefully monitored. If any government was genuinely serious about stopping avoidance they could do it; just hire a good accountant and you'd be able to close a lot of the loopholes.

 

[Pavilionaire]

I think the people who are unhappy with a 3-Party system need to be reminded that it only became a 3-Party system when the LABOUR Party was formed.

Before then the country prospered with a 2-Party Tory/Whig, Conservative/Liberal system.

The Labour Party was born out of the need for the working classes to have representation. Now that we are "classless" and don't make anything anymore it's arguable the Labour Party is no longer required and should f*** off back where they came from.

 

[Tooting Gull]

Avoidance though is (relatively) carefully monitored. If any government was genuinely serious about stopping avoidance they could do it; just hire a good accountant and you'd be able to close a lot of the loopholes.

I agree with you, so by extension, no government has ever been serious about it and closed these loopholes. And I also think that is what grates when they go after people already struggling. They're prepared to go to great lengths to claw back money from those who could really do with it. And they are too spineless to go for those who aren't paying their share. All the more mystifiying, since relative to effort, that would be much easier.

 

[Curious Orange]

Pay money into a pension? These are all forms of tax avoidance.

Paying money into a pension is tax postponement, not tax avoidance.

 

[Silent Bob]

I think the people who are unhappy with a 3-Party system need to be reminded that it only became a 3-Party system when the LABOUR Party was formed.

Before then the country prospered with a 2-Party Tory/Whig, Conservative/Liberal system.

The Labour Party was born out of the need for the working classes to have representation. Now that we are "classless" and don't make anything anymore it's arguable the Labour Party is no longer required and should f*** off back where they came from.

I'm sure Marx would be proud of our classless society.

It's no surprise that the tory boys are all defending the coalition, because they've got what they voted for, they've got what they wanted, which is - given one or two very minor concessions - a tory government. Lib Dem voters don't have any reason to be happy with that - their party has switched 180 degrees on virtually everything they said in the election and on most of the parties deepest principles. Their votes have been misappropriated (that's how I'd feel if I'd voted Lib Dem anyway).

 

[ROKERITE]

I'm sure Marx would be proud of our classless society.

It's no surprise that the tory boys are all defending the coalition, because they've got what they voted for, they've got what they wanted, which is - given one or two very minor concessions - a tory government. Lib Dem voters don't have any reason to be happy with that - their party has switched 180 degrees on virtually everything they said in the election and on most of the parties deepest principles. Their votes have been misappropriated (that's how I'd feel if I'd voted Lib Dem anyway).

Actually, I was thinking of starting a thread entitled "Why did I bother voting Conservative?" as I'm annoyed by how non-Conservative this coalition is.
I vote Tory for strong defence, tough law and order and reduced taxes. I appreciate the third of those is difficult to achieve right now, but Ken Clarke's attitude to criminals is not one I expect from a Conservative. It's strange that I've always liked Clarke but disagree with so many of his views.

 

[Herr Tubthumper]

Why is it okay for the 'common man' but not for others?

Mainly because these are government approved and sponsored. They are not 'tax avoidance' schemes..... as there is no tax to pay.

 

[Uncle Spielberg]

They are ALL a bunch of tossers, Labour, Tory, Lib Dem, makes no difference.

 

[Albumen]

There are two parties really. Labour and Conservative. A vote for any other is just a waste really.

I'd beg to differ.

If more poeple voted for the manifesto that most matched their own views there would be far more than 2 (or two and a half as it is at the moment).
There was probably only one until an opposition disagreed with the ruling party (I don't know my history of politics but you get the idea).

 

[Marshy]

Why would anyone go back to labour though.... ?

Its not like they were doing a good job is it ?

HOw long have the lib/dems been in power ?....a few months...

What do you want, the defecit wiped out already ?....
Its going to take years to sort out the mess they left behind..

 

[Silent Bob]

Actually, I was thinking of starting a thread entitled "Why did I bother voting Conservative?" as I'm annoyed by how non-Conservative this coalition is.
I vote Tory for strong defence, tough law and order and reduced taxes. I appreciate the third of those is difficult to achieve right now, but Ken Clarke's attitude to criminals is not one I expect from a Conservative. It's strange that I've always liked Clarke but disagree with so many of his views.

I dunno what they're doing on defence, they've delayed a decision on Trident (I think until after the next election whenever that may be) but that doesn't need to be done right away anyway. That would probably be even more problematic for them than the tuition fees.
On prisons isn't this more a case of your own perceptions then anything they explicitly promised to do? In which case it's not quite the same as the Lib Dems. Personally I think an evidence based policy rather than one based on rhetoric (of any kind) can only be a good thing.

 

[Tony Meolas Loan Spell]

I'd beg to differ.

If more poeple voted for the manifesto that most matched their own views there would be far more than 2 (or two and a half as it is at the moment).
There was probably only one until an opposition disagreed with the ruling party (I don't know my history of politics but you get the idea).

Im afraid she will have as much influence in parliament as a fart in a wind tunnel.

Oh but she can ask questions and influence decision making.

In answer to that yes she can but thats all they are questions and no she cant, EVER.

I see your point tho.

 

[aftershavedave]

Please tell me this is a wind-up.

Someone who dodges their responsibility to the country (which is what tax avoidance is) then has the gall to accept a commission to tell a bunch of millionaires how best to screw over the vast bulk of modestly paid tax payers? It would be called fantasy if it was a TV series.

nail. head. it's an absolute disgrace.