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Where do you stand on "Tookie" Williams ?
- Thread starter Gritt23
- Start date
NMH
Banned
London Irish said:
Well, what did your google trawl come up with London Irish?
I think you'll find out that he did not actually write any childrens' books, but aligned his name with someone else who did.
D'ya think that, perhaps he did some small attempts at such, because he wanted to save his own life, and purely that?
I heard he has a history of violence in the pen as well.
Though I feel I shouldn't pass further judgement on a dead man, he still doesn't come off as a knight in shining armour who deserved any retraction of justice served upon him.
I am against the death penalty on the whole, but if that's the locally available sentance, then that's the one you have to recognize before you go wantonly murdering .
London Irish
Well-known member
NMH said:
If your definition of "measured justice" is injecting poison into the body of a successful anti-gang violence campaigner, then you have a very different understanding of the word "measured" than I think most people in this country have.
NMH said:
Absolutely - you are dead right. The lesson is don't ever rehabilitate yourself, don't ever try and improve the community you come from, don't ever try and stop other undereducated young men making the same terrible mistakes as you.
I'm glad you're so pleased with this "lesson"
London Irish
Well-known member
NMH said:
My Letter To Incarcerated Youth, No. 1 by Tookie Williams
I've been on San Quentin's death row for more than 21 years. I hope that this brief message will provoke thoughts of change among you.
Across this nation, countless young men and women, like you, are vegetating in juvenile halls and in youth authorities. More and more prisons are being constructed to accommodate your generation when you grow to adulthood. The question is, can you become motivated enough to defy the expectations that many people have of you?
For those of you who are fortunate enough to regain your freedom, prepare an agenda to survive outside the walls of incarceration. Learn about computer technology, politics and the sciences.
On the other hand, if some of you are facing a lot of time, I suggest that you strive to educate and discipline your mind. If you have access to a library, read every relevant book that you can get your hands on. Educate yourselves about history, world religions, math, English, spirituality and your culture.
It's time to flip the script. You or I can complain 24x7 about the problems of poverty, drugs, violence, racism and other injustices, but unless we choose to initiate a personal change, we will remain puppets of unjust conditions. Unless we change, we will be incapable of changing the circumstances around us.
In conclusion, there are two ways to view your incarceration: either your present situation will convince you to straighten up your life or it will be the beginning of a wasteful future behind bars. Or worse - you'll end up on death row.
http://www.savetookie.org/documents/tookie_fact_sheet_10.18.05.pdf
http://www.tookie.com/
http://www.savetookie.org/
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This guy was 24 years on Death Row.
The 8th Amendment says: Excessive bail shall not be required, nor excessive fines imposed, nor cruel and unusual punishments inflicted.
If that's not a cruel and unusual punishment, I don't know what is.
The Americans really are barabarians.
The 8th Amendment says: Excessive bail shall not be required, nor excessive fines imposed, nor cruel and unusual punishments inflicted.
If that's not a cruel and unusual punishment, I don't know what is.
The Americans really are barabarians.
DJ Leon said:
No, some of them only eat vegetables.
Easy 10
Brain dead MUG SHEEP
My unfortunate rectal prolapse is not entirely of my own doing, as well YOU know El P.El Presidente said:
NMH
Banned
London Irish said:If your definition of "measured justice" is injecting poison into the body of a successful anti-gang violence campaigner, then you have a very different understanding of the word "measured" than I think most people in this country have.
Absolutely - you are dead right. The lesson is don't ever rehabilitate yourself, don't ever try and improve the community you come from, don't ever try and stop other undereducated young men making the same terrible mistakes as you.
I'm glad you're so pleased with this "lesson"
You certainly display an obvious CYCLOPTIC view of opinion LI, selectively ignoring the half of what I said that doesn't suit the response YOU want to furnish.
I said I am NOT IN FAVOUR OF THE DEATH PENALTY. Does that take care of the first 'selective quote' or can you possibly extract another byte? As far as 'tookie' compares with other death-row inmates though, I say he's as worthy a criminal as any. His crimes rank as cold, merciless and calculated. His remorse was NIL....until he was convicted of the same DEATH that he meted out. So, if anyone should be in FAVOUR of the death penalty without merciful grace, then it should be tookie himself.
Re the second quote; The penalty (aka judicial sentance handed down) is there as a deterrant. It was there BEFORE tookie murdered his four victims mercilessly - and after he refused to admit to a crime he was found guilty of (despite having related details of the murders that only the killer would know - i.e. taken into a room to be alone with the killer) and his fellow gangsters ratted him out on.
That's the first underlining factor that he had the chance to think about.
The next point is, that he should have done MORE to rehabilitate, and part of that is facing the guilt and admitting to it. That's the point that Arnie brought up as a reason why he was not pardonned from the ultimate penalty.
"yes I murdered, I am deeply sorry and learned my lesson, and wish to continue telling others of this folly" was NOT his stance. He refused to accept guilt, and he wasn't the smartest bloke during the trial, so I believe the truth came out there easily enough for the jury to convict. OJ Simpson didn't front him the money to get a lawyer good enough either, and all these celebs weren't rushing to make withdrawels then either.
The 'lesson' is loudly pronounced to all cold murdering gangsters thinking of carrying the tookie torch. Don't do it, muthafukka, 'less you wanna fry.
Maybe some decent citizens, who really will contribute well to society, will be saved by this message. The Crips have caused a whole lot of innocent deaths up til now, stray bullets have nailed several children in the hood. Took away their chance of a Nobel Peace Prize.
NMH
Banned
DJ Leon said:
What was cruel and unusual about 24 years on death row? They get all that time to prove innocence if it exists, do what they can to face up to what they did, and petition for reprieve. That beats hanging high, or firing squad within a few days, doesn't it? Britain used to hang people until quite recently, incidentally.
Americans sometimes let convicts out, time served plus good behaviour - only for the convict to immediately rape/murder/paedophiliate/etc. Then people wonder how the perp. got out so soon/ever. The criminal justice system cannot be perfect, just as mankind cannot. Still, they cut hands off for stealing, hang for murder and rape - in many other places in this World. They kill young people for dating outside their racial group in some places. They beat or kill women for showing too much skin, or just their face, in some places. Why not focus on those places first, without paying so much attention to a death-row end that happened to some famous gang-leader who needlessly and coldly killed 4 and refused to admit his guilt? Someone did the deed, even if you think that there's a slim chance the gang-leader wasn't the perp. Should that 'leader' then not be held accountable? He was an example to his men then, and he remains exactly that, and in similarly celebratory fashion.
NMH
Banned
Out of interest, what do people feel should have been done to that lad who drowned 2 young girls in his bath, then buried them in shallow graves?
What would you personally like to do to him, if you were the father of those girls?
Personally, I'd be wanting to take care of business, I'd be rather inclined to get 'medieval on his ass'.
What would you personally like to do to him, if you were the father of those girls?
Personally, I'd be wanting to take care of business, I'd be rather inclined to get 'medieval on his ass'.
NMH
Banned
London Irish said:
It seems Arnold marked his paper, and his report read "must try harder"
NMH
Banned
http://www.latimes.com/news/local/la-me-lopez14dec14,0,6640967.column?coll=la-home-headlines
Quite well put, imho.
Then there's his PDF;
http://www.latimes.com/media/acrobat/2005-12/20884787.pdf
Oi vey! This is a nice boy, this is a GOOD boy.
Y'know the more I learn about this whole tookie deal, the more I'm getting swayed. When wild animals proliferate, they are 'culled'. When the pound has a lost domestic pet for a week, they put it down. These are creatures that live without malice, are guilty of no crimes.
What seems so awful about culling the worst elements of humanity, when we willfully abort humans of complete innocence, ones who had NO chance to succeed or waste?
Nobel Peace Prize my ARSE !
Quite well put, imho.
Then there's his PDF;
http://www.latimes.com/media/acrobat/2005-12/20884787.pdf
Oi vey! This is a nice boy, this is a GOOD boy.
Y'know the more I learn about this whole tookie deal, the more I'm getting swayed. When wild animals proliferate, they are 'culled'. When the pound has a lost domestic pet for a week, they put it down. These are creatures that live without malice, are guilty of no crimes.
What seems so awful about culling the worst elements of humanity, when we willfully abort humans of complete innocence, ones who had NO chance to succeed or waste?
Nobel Peace Prize my ARSE !
Lammy
Registered Abuser
NMH said:
Easy 10 said:
But you BEGGED me at the time to use the vegetables on you, saucy Minx
NMH said:Out of interest, what do people feel should have been done to that lad who drowned 2 young girls in his bath, then buried them in shallow graves?
What would you personally like to do to him, if you were the father of those girls?
Personally, I'd be wanting to take care of business, I'd be rather inclined to get 'medieval on his ass'.
The person you are referring to is Ian Huntley. As a parent, I would happily strangle him with my bare hands. But that would be an act of vengeance, for my own gratification, to make me feel better. I am not sure whether it is justice.
He has been diagnosed as being mentally sick. If we are to extend the view that those who are mentally sick and who commit acts of murder should be killed, should be not extend the rule to those who are mentally sound?
If you believe in a higher form of justice at the end of our lives then we will all serve the appropriate sentence
HampshireSeagulls
Moulding Generation Z
El Presidente said:
Yep. It's just that some need to get to the final court room quicker than others.
As our friends in the US say - Kill 'em all, let God sort 'em out.
cue London Irish, devil's advocate 2005.
He committed a crime and knew the penalty - and I'll say it again - its sick that it takes 20 something years to serve the penalty in which time he is obviously a different person to what he was when he committed the crime. I doubt as much fuss would have been kicked up if he were executed within a year of the sentance...
NMH said:
If you think waiting 24 years on death row to be killed isn't cruel or unusual, then I don't think I can really persuade you otherwise.
I am opposed to the abuse of human rights and the death penalty wherever they occur. However, the US is our closest friend and ally and claims to be a champion of human rights. They should know better, because they certainly talk the talk.
You don't sound like you are against the death penalty.
DJ Leon said:
*cough* Guantanamo Bay
HampshireSeagulls
Moulding Generation Z
El Presidente said:
In direct contrast to our approach of giving them accommodation, benefits, freedom of speech, freedom to plan, plot and bomb.
Gitmo isn't as bad as people think, you let yourselves get carried away by sensationalism. And as for what some of you no doubt believe "torture" to be
Interrogation and tactical questioning bears no resemblance at all to Running Man, kneecap drilling favoured by the Provos, and genital-hotwiring favoured by many Middle Eastern countries.