What is the MATTER with people in East Belfast?

[CheeseRolls]

Sounds like they must be pretty even handed.

and Naomi Long ?

 

[daveinprague]

Ah, the teenager is back on about bullying...I should care that other posters dont like me?...not really...maybe a bullied person would, which is why your personality is so fragile.
I requested discharge by purchase on return from the far east, and it was granted?.....What is there to explain to you Bushy?...I was a signalman...not a particularly sought out trade before the advent of mass communications...

Any better research on the....if you were in another unit at the same time, you would be etc etc.....or do you concede thats a load of bollocks...you seem determined to avoid it.

 

[User removed 4]

Ah, the teenager is back on about bullying...I should care that other posters dont like me?...not really...
I requested discharge by purchase on return from the far east, and it was granted?.....What is there to explain to you Bushy?...I was a signalman...not a particularly sought out trade before the advent of mass communications...

Any better research on the....if you were in another unit at the same time, you would be etc etc.....or do you concede thats a load of bollocks...

I didnt go away you know.....................

 

[daveinprague]

Didnt come up with an answer either.


(nice IRA pun btw)


Im off end of my working day.....enjoy avoiding direct questins ;-)

 

[El Presidente]

Perhaps we need an Alternative Ulster to resolve these issues?

 

[User removed 4]

Ah, the teenager is back on about bullying...I should care that other posters dont like me?...not really...maybe a bullied person would, which is why your personality is so fragile.
I requested discharge by purchase on return from the far east, and it was granted?.....What is there to explain to you Bushy?...I was a signalman...not a particularly sought out trade before the advent of mass communications...

Any better research on the....if you were in another unit at the same time, you would be etc etc.....or do you concede thats a load of bollocks...you seem determined to avoid it.

I'm not avoiding anything, I've alrteady given you my answer.

 

[Tyrone Biggums]

They reacted differently because the situations are different...different cultures...different people...different country....different war. The reason why the British capitulated to the IRA was precisely because the IRA bombed us into submission. That's why there is a PNSI, that's why McGuinness is head honcho there.

We're discussing why they both resent those who rule over them still today. There's only one reason, both peoples were invaded and had a foreign force rule over them. Surely you don't think that the attitude of the indigenous Irish involved simply revolves around the last 50 years? It will involve tales and heroes from hundreds of years ago.

Both peoples have ingrained in their cultures a tale of being oppressed by a foreign ruler.

The way they reacted is because of their backgrounds. The Irish were more advanced technologically at the time in their resistance. Having said that the Aboriginals did fight back in certain areas using the technology they had available to them.

So tell me...how, in any way, shape or form can those series of events be mirrored with what the Aborigines are trying to do in Oz?

As I said, its about the long seated hatred and resentment of those who took their lands and ruled over them. How that manifests itself into physical violence play no part in the parallel because we're simply discussing how in this day and age people still hold such resentment and why.

Your claims that you're somehow brothers under the same skin along with native Indians, the Armenians, the Portugese Jews in the 1500s and every single other displaced people is risible.

Australian history shows that when a lot of the Irish arrived in Australia there was an empathy between then Irish and the Aboriginal peoples. Intermarriage between the two groups was not that uncommon.

The key here is empathy, not some brotherhood, but an understanding and appreciation of what the other has gone through. Through this a common ground is found.

I tell you what...if you can find on the Internet one article written by someone who actually knows what they're talking about who thinks that an understanding of the aborigine history gives a useful insight into religious bigotry in Northern Ireland I'll take back all that I said about you being a fuckwit.

It's an understanding of the oppression which is required. You require empathy to be able to understand why people hold onto resentment for so long.

If someone you knew was killed by a drink driver do you not think that would then allow you to understand the resentment, anger etc of someone else in the same situation might feel despite not knowing them?

Patrick O’Farrell wrote works on the interactions between the Aboriginals and the Irish Catholic immigrants. Today they are colloquially known as Shamrock Aborigines.

 

[The Spanish]

Perhaps we need an Alternative Ulster to resolve these issues?

your valiant attempts at levity at more heated moments dont go unappreciated El Pres. Its the internet equivalent of Mo ripping her wig off.

 

[The Spanish]

Today they are colloquially known as Shamrock Aborigines.

if there isnt a band called that already there should be.

 

[Tyrone Biggums]

if there isnt a band called that already there should be.

It's actually Moree's Aboriginal rugby teams name, they are called the "Shamrock Aboriginal Warriors". They wear the green and white Shamrock for their club emblem.

 

[Twizzle]

Some of you lot like to look deeply into this as a political and historic issue.
The yobs might like to recite history as an excuse, but the length and depth of it is that they want aggro.
They are willing - like in the full meaning of 'willing something on', to revive a war before it gets forgotten.

The Irish have a lot of alcoholics and tend to follow patriachal tradition regardless of how silly or doomed for disaster that may be. Don't analise too deeply, as I doubt that they do!
How they allow history to spoil the future is beyond sensibility

Like the mug who gets beaten up trying to stop a fight, the police are also caught up and getting hurt.

 

[Cian]

Most of the time actually, how about the loyalists go down to Dublin and tell them that they cant fly their national flag over city hall ?

If the Loyalists get a majority elected to the city council, by all means feel free.

But why you'd want to I don't know, let alone why you're even trying to involve a third party here - it was UK-resident politicians elected by UK residents who made the decision. ROI had absolutely nothing to do with it.

This wouldn't have been possible if they hadn't carved up the expanding city areas to have three sets of jobs for the boys - Newtonabbey and Castlereagh BC are overwhelmingly DUP.

 

[dreaming spires]

This is all very fair. But equally something that you have failed to recognise with your pro-loyalist stance is that there are BOUND to be more decisions taken that appear pro-nationalist to restore some of the status quo. For example, the RUC was not an organisation the nationalists could support so a new PNSI came to pass. Similarly, flying the union jack 24/7 is not acceptable to a large part of the population so it has been removed for some of the time. But before you complain, it's hardly some sort of equality, as there's no Irish tricolour flying -just a nod to the fact that a fair sized minority of the city do not consider themselves British.

Tough!! Whether they consider themselves British or not, if they wish to fly the tricolour as their national flag, then move south!
For nationalists read ira supporting.
If Northern Ireland is part of the United Kingdom, then why should there be a restriction on when the Union Jack should be flown?
Would Brighton and Hove council be faced with the same restrictions?
(Although granted with car hating, tree-huggers in charge it is unlikely to get flown anyway)

 

[Stoo82]

Some of you lot like to look deeply into this as a political and historic issue.
The yobs might like to recite history as an excuse, but the length and depth of it is that they want aggro.
They are willing - like in the full meaning of 'willing something on', to revive a war before it gets forgotten.

The Irish have a lot of alcoholics and tend to follow patriachal tradition regardless of how silly or doomed for disaster that may be. Don't analise too deeply, as I doubt that they do!
How they allow history to spoil the future is beyond sensibility

Like the mug who gets beaten up trying to stop a fight, the police are also caught up and getting hurt.

Bravo.

 

[Buzzer]

Patrick O’Farrell wrote works on the interactions between the Aboriginals and the Irish Catholic immigrants. Today they are colloquially known as Shamrock Aborigines.

What a coincidence, that was the first thing I found when I googled it too. Trouble is all he talks about is inter-marriage. He doesn't refer to that giving any understanding of 20th century politics in N.Ireland. You can go on all you want about your ancestors being displaced but your knowledge of aboriginal persecution gives no better insight into the particular history of Irish displacement any more than I can claim to understand the Lithuanian diaspora because us Brighton fans were also made homeless once upon a time.

Even that day trip as a kiddie to County Clare counts for diddly squat in regards to this debate about Belfast. The mass emigration from Clare occurred in the 19th century, by which time Ulster and particularly Belfast had already been a Protestant majority for centuries - unlike County Clare which was overwhelmingly Catholic. Belfast was even then an industrial city, Clare was largely rural. What happened and is happening in Belfast was and is different to what happened in the rural southern Ireland and is geographically (sic) a world away from what the abo's have had to put up with from your fellow countrymen. The only common factor is that people were displaced and persecuted.

 

[Cian]

Tough!! Whether they consider themselves British or not, if they wish to fly the tricolour as their national flag, then move south!
For nationalists read ira supporting.
If Northern Ireland is part of the United Kingdom, then why should there be a restriction on when the Union Jack should be flown?
Would Brighton and Hove council be faced with the same restrictions?
(Although granted with car hating, tree-huggers in charge it is unlikely to get flown anyway)

They aren't flying the Tricolour, though. The days the Union Flag isn't being flown, nothing is.

 

[Buzzer]

 

[dreaming spires]

We're discussing why they both resent those who rule over them still today. There's only one reason, both peoples were invaded and had a foreign force rule over them. Surely you don't think that the attitude of the indigenous Irish involved simply revolves around the last 50 years? It will involve tales and heroes from hundreds of years ago.

Both peoples have ingrained in their cultures a tale of being oppressed by a foreign ruler.

The way they reacted is because of their backgrounds. The Irish were more advanced technologically at the time in their resistance. Having said that the Aboriginals did fight back in certain areas using the technology they had available to them.



As I said, its about the long seated hatred and resentment of those who took their lands and ruled over them. How that manifests itself into physical violence play no part in the parallel because we're simply discussing how in this day and age people still hold such resentment and why.



Australian history shows that when a lot of the Irish arrived in Australia there was an empathy between then Irish and the Aboriginal peoples. Intermarriage between the two groups was not that uncommon.

The key here is empathy, not some brotherhood, but an understanding and appreciation of what the other has gone through. Through this a common ground is found.



It's an understanding of the oppression which is required. You require empathy to be able to understand why people hold onto resentment for so long.

If someone you knew was killed by a drink driver do you not think that would then allow you to understand the resentment, anger etc of someone else in the same situation might feel despite not knowing them?

Patrick O’Farrell wrote works on the interactions between the Aboriginals and the Irish Catholic immigrants. Today they are colloquially known as Shamrock Aborigines.

So then following your linear of thought, the natives/celts that were eventually moved out of their lands to the fringes of Wales, Scotland and Cornwall, by the invading Angles, Saxon and Jute tribes, should be empathised with if they decide to riot, burn cars shoot people as the people of Belfast do today.

 

[Stoo82]

So then following your linear of thought, the natives/celts that were eventually moved out of their lands to the fringes of Wales, Scotland and Cornwall, by the invading Angles, Saxon and Jute tribes, should be empathised with if they decide to riot, burn cars shoot people as the people of Belfast do today.

Im sure I read somewhere the Abo's, as someone else put it, emigrated to Aussieland thousands of years ago and took over the land from someone else. Now, my question is: Is it only white English emigration (in all its forms) that is wrong, and as a secondary question: How far back can you go to say such and such is the true native of that land.

We have been emigrating for enternity.

 

[narly101]

20 of us english lads spent 3 great days in Belfast on a stag-weekend two years. Fantastic city.

Having also been to the Croydon Whitgift and Drummond Centre's, and spent a depressingly large amount of my time in Croydon Ikea, I know which place I'd prefer to be.