UK jobs market recovery 'to stall'

[Simster]

That is the key word in the quote. To continue to completely overstretch this analogy, if the parents have a history of overspending and getting themselves into high levels of debt, what evidence is there that they are suddenly going to reform themselves and become frugal?

That's why I voted Lib Dem. Too bad they're just sucking up to CMD and his cronies.

 

[Billy the Fish]

That's a crap analogy. Labour didn't "piss off", they were voted out. And if they'd been allowed to stay, they might well have formulated a proper solution to get the debt down.

So if this parent had been allowed to stick around instead of being thrown out, maybe he'd have sat down with the other parent and worked out a proper payment plan to drive down the credit card debt, rather than hit everyone hard right now, irreversibly damaging the child.

Do you really think they would've done that? They overspent for 8 of the 12 years they were in power, all the good ministers had resigned or been sacked, someone else had to have a chance.

I'm not saying the current shower of shite will get it right, I can't really comment on what they'll get wrong as that would just be guessing. All I know is what I read in the papers an noises from tory MPs are that cuts are going too far.

I just find it very boring that people are so one eyed and polarised on this board, it's constant evil tories and wonderful labour or vice versa.
Labour might get another chance to redeem themselves in 4 years if they can get their act together.

 

[Don Quixote]

David Milliband will be elected Labour leader and will lead us back into power for another 10 years. EASY.

 

[Tony Meolas Loan Spell]

The public sector losses include the money that was used to bail out let me think now...who needed bailing out...

Im in insurance and thankfully we didnt, neither did solicitiors, or IT or accountancy etc. In fact they would have gone bust but hen they understand market conditions.

Oh you mean banking. Its not the ONLY industry thats private you know. Besides the public sector is well over inflated*

*with the exception of the emegency services

 

[Billy the Fish]

Those 600,000 will go on the dole, therefore they will stop paying taxes and will instead claim benefits, costing the state more money. Yay.

That argument doesn't stack up. The filp side of what you've just said is that it's cheaper to employ someone with a government job than it is to make them unemployed and pay them benefits. If that were the case then why don't they just offer every unemployed person a job for the state?

 

[desprateseagull]

if the condems do have a fight, and split, does that mean another general election? has that ever happened before?

 

[Biscuit]

That argument doesn't stack up. The filp side of what you've just said is that it's cheaper to employ someone with a government job than it is to make them unemployed and pay them benefits. If that were the case then why don't they just offer every unemployed person a job for the state?

Run that one by me again? Surely you'd rather 600,000 people were in work and paying tax than on the dole?

 

[drew]

My Dad who has never voted Tory in his life even commented that he thought the coalition was so far doing a very good job but it is the trendy thing to bash them isn't it without any real basis behind that.

So now you admit you were only knocking labour because they were in power and you thought it was the trendy thing to do. How sad.

As for no real basis, perhaps you should open your eyes and take a look at the real world rather than that of your alter ego!!!!

 

[Billy the Fish]

Run that one by me again? Surely you'd rather 600,000 people were in work and paying tax than on the dole?

Taxing the wages of someone employed by the government isn't the same as taxing the wages of someone in the private sector. Essentially it's all coming from the same source, just being moved from government pot to government pot.

A public sector workers wage and a persons JSA + other benefits both come from tax revenue. If a public sector workers net wage is more than what they would receive in benefits then the government is saving money.

I realise that's quite simplistic as there are many other things to consider such as departmental bugets and also the social consequences of having non productive people, but what you said is that it would cost more money by making people redundant and I don't think that's the case.

 

[itszamora]

Taxing the wages of someone employed by the government isn't the same as taxing the wages of someone in the private sector. Essentially it's all coming from the same source, just being moved from government pot to government pot.

A public sector workers wage and a persons JSA + other benefits both come from tax revenue. If a public sector workers net wage is more than what they would receive in benefits then the government is saving money.

I realise that's quite simplistic as there are many other things to consider such as departmental bugets and also the social consequences of having non productive people, but what you said is that it would cost more money by making people redundant and I don't think that's the case.

I see the point you are making, but I'm not convinced that making people redundant is a great way to get out of a recession. These 600,000 will have a knock-on effect on every other sector of the economy, as they won't be spending as much on goods and services, in turn meaning businesses will pay less tax as they make less profit, and increasing the chance of them having to make staff redundant, increasing the benefits bill, and so on...

 

[Don Quixote]

if the condems do have a fight, and split, does that mean another general election? has that ever happened before?

Yes, it does. I hope it happens sooner rather than later.

 

[cunning fergus]

David Milliband will be elected Labour leader and will lead us back into power for another 10 years. EASY.

Excellent, a privileged multi-millionaire socialist w*nker who has never done a stroke of work in his life.........so just more of the same then.

 

[Billy the Fish]

I see the point you are making, but I'm not convinced that making people redundant is a great way to get out of a recession. These 600,000 will have a knock-on effect on every other sector of the economy, as they won't be spending as much on goods and services, in turn meaning businesses will pay less tax as they make less profit, and increasing the chance of them having to make staff redundant, increasing the benefits bill, and so on...

I agree they're walking a tightrope, too far in either direction is bad. I said earlier that the tories will cut too far and in the wrong places, even tory MPs are saying that. At the end of the day the treasury gives each department a budget which they have to work within, they are all dancing to the treasury's tune and you get the feeling the treasury haven't though any of this through, they're just looking at numbers on a balance sheet. I still think that the civil service needs to be cut down to a better size.

To be honest I think we're all wasting our time debating left vs right issues anyway, they're all just puppets to the super rich and the corporations.

 

[larus]

Labour have a track-record of continually over-spending and screwing up the economy.

The Tories have the reputation of being 'uncaring', not because they don't want to spend on public services, but because they realise that it's down to affordability.

As people, there's no major difference between Labour politicians and Tories. Nearly all politicians are in it for themself (IMO). The exposure of politicians last time round (expenses) proved that Labour Politicians are as corrupt/unethical as Tories. This ia down to huamn nature and nothing to do with politics.

As someone else pointed out, the totally blinkered views on both sides here just goes to show why politics at Westminster fails. It's trying to score points.

Alos, there's no acceptance from the Labour voters that the economy had been f***ed up and we were living beyond our means. At the end of the last economic cycle, we were still running a budget deficit - that's insane.

The banks needing bailing out; but it was the huge level of taxes being generated by these same banks that was funding the bloated public sector. You can't have have one without the other.

 

[drew]

Excellent, a privileged multi-millionaire socialist w*nker who has never done a stroke of work in his life.........so just more of the same then.

Exactly when did David Cameron do a proper job then?

Just as an addendum, he appears to have been the Director of Corporate Affairs at Carlton Communications. You remember them don't you, they were one of the principal shareholders of OnDigital, the company that shafted Football League clubs. Still, the experience he gained in shafting football is now being put to good use!!!!

 

[drew]

The Tories have the reputation of being 'uncaring', not because they don't want to spend on public services, but because they realise that it's down to affordability.

Your view seems a bit slanted! It's nothing to do with believing that it's down to affordability, it is due to the fact that they would rather have the money in their pockets, or to put it simply, greed.

 

[Uncle Spielberg]

Without wanting to sound callous. These 600000 people are just tasting the medicine the self employed have been swallowing for 3 years now.

 

[ROKERITE]

So now you admit you were only knocking labour because they were in power and you thought it was the trendy thing to do. How sad.

As for no real basis, perhaps you should open your eyes and take a look at the real world rather than that of your alter ego!!!!

How can you possibly put such a twisted interpretation on Uncle Spielberg's comment? As long as I can remember it has always been "cool" to knock The Conservative Party, whether they be in government or opposition. All through Mrs Thatcher's leadership comedians, pop stars, actors, students, etc. were tripping over each other to be seen to throw a metaphoric coconut at her.
It's always been trendy but I've never been one for trends.
Labour have mucked up this country, and if they'd been re-elected they'd have mucked it up completely. Whether the coalition can save us I don't know. I fear the Conservatives and Liberal Democrats will be blamed for a mess they didn't make; this thread is evidence it's happening already. It was said before the election that this was a good one to lose. Labour were very lucky to be turfed out or by the time they'd finished another term in office they would have been unelectable for a generation.

 

[beorhthelm]

The reason the public services are being drastically cut away is because the money used to run them are being handed over to the private sector.

is that a tacit admission that the private sector can do the job?


600k job losses expected. thats 2% of the workforce, or less. once you account for current unfilled vacancies, retirements, voluntary redundancy, you end up with much smaller number put out of work. then there are those services which will be picked up by private sector, so will rehire.

then you have to consider that alot of the talk right now is just that, talk. there's expectation managment and political manouvring afoot. there will NOT be 40% cuts anywhere, the purpose is to force departments to reasses fundementally what services and roles they are carrying out and what they are supposed to be. i doubt there will be even 20% cuts on average. in many cases keeping people will be cheaper than making redundant. another purpose is about killing off projects in pipelines that would have increased head counts. then, lets face it, some people are doing public jobs that just arent necessary (anyone care to defend a curator of art at a hospital?)

long story short, the cuts will not be a sweeping as currently expected and the number of jobs losses will be far lower than anticipated.

 

[drew]

How can you possibly put such a twisted interpretation on Uncle Spielberg's comment? As long as I can remember it has always been "cool" to knock The Conservative Party, whether they be in government or opposition. All through Mrs Thatcher's leadership comedians, pop stars, actors, students, etc. were tripping over each other to be seen to throw a metaphoric coconut at her.
It's always been trendy but I've never been one for trends.
Labour have mucked up this country, and if they'd been re-elected they'd have mucked it up completely. Whether the coalition can save us I don't know. I fear the Conservatives and Liberal Democrats will be blamed for a mess they didn't make; this thread is evidence it's happening already. It was said before the election that this was a good one to lose. Labour were very lucky to be turfed out or by the time they'd finished another term in office they would have been unelectable for a generation.

Let's wait and see. The liberals have shafted themselves and even with electoral reforms will probably lose a lot of their support for the way they have turned their back on many of their principles. The tories will forever blame labour but we have seen that the economy's growth for the second quarter was more than expected. According to previous posts, employment prospects are now worse than when the Tories came into power.

The labour government made many mistakes and I was not a fan of Brown by any stretch of the imagination but they also did a lot of good things for society. The Tories will just try and put more money back in the hands of their supporters irrespective of the damage it will cause.

As for misinterpreting US, he stated it is trendy to knock the conservatives but it didn't stop his diatribe against Labour when they were in power. Irrespective of your leanings, it is always trendy to knock whomever is in power whether that be joe blogg sounding off down the pub or the general media. If you hadn't noticed then perhaps you should open your eyes (and ears) a bit more!!!