Trump

[portlock seagull]

imagine harassing and interfering with people voting, hardly respectful of democratic process.

Quite. This is a Pyrrhic victory election really for the good guys. Trump has done everything to wreck democracy as an institution during his time, and now on the eve of his exit, he’ll deny he’s lost, refuse to recognise the result and whip up dangerous rhetoric, militias and so forth to hang onto power. If he wins, America will riot. If he loses, America will riot. Only difference is he’ll start the latter himself. We’re used to seeing intimidation tactics and blood at the ballot box in Africa etc. But in the USA? I can see it happening over the next few days and weeks.

Nope, Trump is not going anywhere soon even if he loses. Extremely disturbing times, people in Europe don’t realise the knife edge/the chain reaction that could be unleashed in the next 3 months worldwide. Imagine a civil war starting in America. China and Russia would move like lightening to take all sorts of territories. Could even see war in Europe again.

World is a very unstable place right now. Dangerously so.

 

[dingodan]

Imagine watching the last 4 years unfold and this being your take

I haven't seen anything which justifies violence. Sorry.

 

[beorhthelm]

What do you mean?

that Trump supporters are harrasing voters. spoke to someone in US today, say they've never seen anything like it.

 

[dingodan]

that Trump supporters are harrasing voters. spoke to someone in US today, say they've never seen anything like it.

I've not seen or heard anything like that, do you have a documented example?

By harrasing what do you mean?

I'm sincerely asking, I would condemn that without hesitation (assuming it's harrasment/intimidation and not standing somewhere with a flag and a hat on), but I've genuinely never heard of that happening.

 

[beorhthelm]

I've not seen or heard anything like that, do you have a documented example?

you'll have to look around for documented examples. apparently theres rolling car trains which seem innocent enough until they are rolling round voting stations. person spoke to described it like picketing.

 

[portlock seagull]

I've not seen or heard anything like that, do you have a documented example?

By harrasing what do you mean?

I'm sincerely asking, I would condemn that without hesitation (assuming it's harrasment/intimidation and not standing somewhere with a flag and a hat on), but I've genuinely never heard of that happening.

Get on Beeb catch up. Been programmes on it all week. Seriously, you need to wake up and educate yourself if you think Trump isn’t anything other than a crazed sociopath dismantling democracy. It’s not just America than needs rid of him, the world does.

 

[Tyrone Biggums]

Imagine watching the last 4 years unfold and this being your take

Why wouldn't it be a valid take?

So link us to all the instances to where it was the Republican base rioting, looting, destroying public and private property.

There must be 4 years of example after example of cases you can cite.

 

[portlock seagull]

you'll have to look around for documented examples. apparently theres rolling car trains which seem innocent enough until they are rolling round voting stations. person spoke to described it like picketing.

It’s way more than that. Trump has been manipulating and taking control of US Post to prevent postal votes for many months. And much more. He’s a sociopath. If he wins, it was fair. If he loses, he cries foul. He won’t concede power, he’ll do everything and more to stay in charge. He already has, it should come as no surprise to anyone. I can see this being the first US election where blood gets spilt on the streets because of. It’s a powder keg situation.

 

[dingodan]

you'll have to look around for documented examples. apparently theres rolling car trains which seem innocent enough until they are rolling round voting stations. person spoke to described it like picketing.

Well I just did see if I could find anything like that based on your post, but there isn't anything. Not sure I should have to look around for the examples anyway since you made the claim. The only thing close to that is the cars following the Biden bus which has been covered for the last couple of days, and I'm sorry but I don't really see that as being much more than people wanting to show their support for their candidate with their flags. Annoying for Biden and his bus, but that falls well below the level of intimidation. If Biden supporters followed a Trump bus with thier Biden flags would you condemn it?

Like I said, I would always oppose harrasment and intimidation, especially towards voters during an election, but it sounds to me like you've got some assumptions (like most people) about Trump supporters which aren't really fair. They certainly might not be everyones cup of tea, but they aren't marauding thugs either, they are just ordinary voters (close to half of the (voting) population) who are pretty enthusiastic for their candidate.

 

[Tyrone Biggums]

Get on Beeb catch up. Been programmes on it all week. Seriously, you need to wake up and educate yourself if you think Trump isn’t anything other than a crazed sociopath dismantling democracy. It’s not just America than needs rid of him, the world does.

Are you sure the world needs Biden more? Under Trump no foreign wars were started, when Biden was VP 7 were started.

Obama/Biden handed Trump more wars than Bush handed Obama. And Bush was a warmonger.

If you're in some foreign nation you might favour the non-interventionist over the warmongers that think blowing you up to force democracy on you is the thing to do.

 

[beorhthelm]

It’s way more than that. Trump has been manipulating and taking control of US Post to prevent postal votes for many months. And much more. He’s a sociopath. If he wins, it was fair. If he loses, he cries foul. He won’t concede power, he’ll do everything and more to stay in charge. He already has, it should come as no surprise to anyone. I can see this being the first US election where blood gets spilt on the streets because of. It’s a powder keg situation.

i dont read too much into the postal stuff, as i read it, these practices are common but isolated in US and by both sides. Trump did do some shady stuff with withholding funds from postal service and they've been trying to limit postal votes in swing states, mixed results in courts. i'm certain in a tight contest he'll play up, but in a clear win he'll be lent on to do things right. cant go down in history as President that refused to pass on power.

 

[dingodan]

Are you sure the world needs Biden more? Under Trump no foreign wars were started, when Biden was VP 7 were started.

Obama/Biden handed Trump more wars than Bush handed Obama. And Bush was a warmonger.

If you're in some foreign nation you might favour the non-interventionist over the warmongers that think blowing you up to force democracy on you is the thing to do.

This is the thing which always got me. The anti-war position of the left just seemed to die away under Obama. For all Trumps faults he has been the only President in decades to oppose fighting unnecessary wars overseas, you'd think he would get even the tiniest bit of credit for that. Nope.

 

[Klaas]

I've not seen or heard anything like that, do you have a documented example?

By harrasing what do you mean?

I'm sincerely asking, I would condemn that without hesitation (assuming it's harrasment/intimidation and not standing somewhere with a flag and a hat on), but I've genuinely never heard of that happening.

Odd that you missed the President of the United States encouraging this kind of thing. It must be exhausting spending so much time online being disingenuous.

 

[portlock seagull]

Are you sure the world needs Biden more? Under Trump no foreign wars were started, when Biden was VP 7 were started.

Obama/Biden handed Trump more wars than Bush handed Obama. And Bush was a warmonger.

If you're in some foreign nation you might favour the non-interventionist over the warmongers that think blowing you up to force democracy on you is the thing to do.

I can’t believe, after four years evidence, that you’re even asking that question. AOBT.

 

[dingodan]

Odd that you missed the President of the United States encouraging this kind of thing. It must be exhausting spending so much time online being disingenuous.

The claim was, "Trump supporters are harrasing voters", unfortunately the person who said it didn't have any examples.

Perhaps you do?

I'm not trying to be a d*ck, I'm a recovering conspiracy theorist remember, so I know what a statement without foundation looks like when I see it.

 

[portlock seagull]

i dont read too much into the postal stuff, as i read it, these practices are common but isolated in US and by both sides. Trump did do some shady stuff with withholding funds from postal service and they've been trying to limit postal votes in swing states, mixed results in courts. i'm certain in a tight contest he'll play up, but in a clear win he'll be lent on to do things right. cant go down in history as President that refused to pass on power.

I’m convinced he’ll lose. But equally convinced He’ll call it as fake. And then...unchartered territory. He’s got two months to wreak havoc. And he will. What with COVID, BLM...the States is on a knife edge. Fortunately, there’s only 550 million guns in circulation. The legally registered ones anyway.

 

[Tyrone Biggums]

This is the thing which always got me. The anti-war position of the left just seemed to die away under Obama. For all Trumps faults he has been the only President in decades to oppose fighting unnecessary wars overseas, you'd think he would get even the tiniest bit of credit for that. Nope.

There are Liberals out there who have noted this. They are the Liberals who don't buy the Biden is the lesser of two evil bullshit.

The problem is the likes of CNN and MSNBC are pro-industrial war complex. And when they are what so many media outlets and people take their lead from with anti-Trump stories it's no wonder you have these supposed people of peace supporting warmongers.

 

[Tyrone Biggums]

I can’t believe, after four years evidence, that you’re even asking that question. AOBT.

Four years of evidence of what?

That it's possible for a US President to get through their four years without starting a war?

 

[portlock seagull]

The claim was, "Trump supporters are harrasing voters", unfortunately the person who said it didn't have any examples.

Perhaps you do?

I'm not trying to be a d*ck, I'm a recovering conspiracy theorist remember, so I know what a statement without foundation looks like when I see it.

loads of examples, you’re being a bit lazy. Check out all number of publications from NY Times to Time over the past few months. Very interesting if not a little disturbing. Lots behind paywalls because it’s quality journo but can usually read 1 or 2 articles for free.

 

[dingodan]

loads of examples, you’re being a bit lazy. Check out all number of publications from NY Times to Time over the past few months. Very interesting if not a little disturbing. Lots behind paywalls because it’s quality journo but can usually read 1 or 2 articles for free.

You are making the claim, so justify it.

I have looked for examples of voter intimidation by Trump supporters. But I haven't found any. Moreover I have been paying attention, and I am fairly confident if there were cases of that happening it would be a story big enough and reported on enough that we would all have heard about it, I wouldn't have to ask.

I am perfectly comfortable with finding out that this has happened somewhere, and condemning it if it has. My question to you is, are you comfortable with finding out that it hasn't happened and acknowledging that? There seems to be a strong idea in the U.S. that it is happening, despite no justification that I can find. When people believe and repeat that, it is those people who are risking raising tensions and causing violence. It's irresponsible, and it's Trumps opponents, not supporters, who are doing that.