Transport an' tings, am I correct in thinking it's turning out very well?

[Hunting 784561]

"Not unreasonable", but, if you want to cover the infrastructure costs of delivering, say, six eight-carriage trains an hour between Brighton and Falmer, it will be considerably more expensive than the stadium.

A 12 car train every 5/10 minutes would cost hundreds of millions.

Has anyone conducted a feasibility study - as all I hear from train people is "it cant be done"...

 

[West Hoathly Seagull]

I agree, Uter. There are two questions here. The first is how can the Club promote the idea of stadium expansion in a city where the Council's administration wants to see minimal car parking provision associated with new planning? The second is how can supporters get to matches with the minimum of disruption?

The Green Party doesn't see Park & Ride as a solution to the first question, if it merely adds to traffic volumes in the city. But more Park & Ride facilities are, I think, an essential part of the answer to the second question.

Ees complicated.

I think the Council also have to remember that a large proportion of the club's support comes from outside the city. Brighton has always been more of a "county" club than a "city" one, being Sussex's club. That being the case, a large part of the support will necessarily have to drive at least part of the way to the ground, especially those of us from rural areas. Yes, I could walk a mile to Grinstead Lane, wait for the Crawley bus, travel to Three Bridges, get a train to Brighton, get a train to Falmer, and repeat the whole thing on the way back, but I am blowed if I'm going to do that. If there was free or cheap parking close to Haywards Heath Station, I would probably use the train via Lewes, but the option I use just suits me best. Dr Beeching did not help us outlying supporters. In the summertime, I would more than happily have walked across the fields to West Hoathly Station and caught a train to Haywards Heath and Lewes. Today, if I want to go the entire way by public transport, I have to use the complicated route above. I just wish Greens would be a bit more realistic. Notwithstanding Ed's point about the 1901 Club, I think, considering how many of us live a fair way away, the club does jolly well to get the numbers going by public transport that it does.

 

[Lord Bracknell]

I think that getting 8000 more people to the Amex is going to be a big headache and I agree with Lord B that producing more P&Rs isn't the right answer.

I haven't said that "more P&Rs isn't the right answer". All I've said is that more P&Rs isn't the answer to the questions the Green Party are asking.

If the question is "how do we get 8,000 more people to the Amex?", more P&Rs may well be an essential part of the answer. But this might not win us the planning permission.

I happen to think that a large out-of-town park and ride site could contribute to a reduction in traffic congestion in Brighton city centre. A large out-of-town P&R site might also help the Albion and help get supporters on to the city's public transport network. But this is not a solution favoured by the current Green administration.

 

[Vegas Seagull]

"Not unreasonable", but, if you want to cover the infrastructure costs of delivering, say, six eight-carriage trains an hour between Brighton and Falmer, it will be considerably more expensive than the stadium.

A 12 car train every 5/10 minutes would cost hundreds of millions. Brighton station would need more platforms, for a start.

No it wouldn't, it would simply require a reprioritisarion of the existing timetable. For two hours before & after kick off minimal use 4 carriage trains need to be given less (Sunday?) priority. Just because they have a slot now, doesn't mean they can't be altered for a higher volume need

 

[Vegas Seagull]

It wasn't a conversation that was about the club, just a throwaway line that he dropped into a more general conversation about Green transport policy in Brighton and Hove. In fact, I don't think he even knew that I was an Albion supporter. His main point was that there were too many car parks in the City and the football club were adding to them.

The busy car parks in the City are what has meant Brighton being the least affected place in the country by the recession , for a century people gave wanted to drive here & spend money and any councillor should be ashamed of themselves if they think full car parks are a negative

 

[Lord Bracknell]

No it wouldn't, it would simply require a reprioritisarion of the existing timetable. For two hours before & after kick off minimal use 4 carriage trains need to be given less (Sunday?) priority. Just because they have a slot now, doesn't mean they can't be altered for a higher volume need

That's a crazy idea. Have you seen how many non-football passengers use the railway on Saturdays? You can't just turn them away because there's a football match on.

 

[The Large One]

I happen to think that a large out-of-town park and ride site could contribute to a reduction in traffic congestion in Brighton city centre. A large out-of-town P&R site might also help the Albion and help get supporters on to the city's public transport network. But this is not a solution favoured by the current Green administration.

I don't think it's a solution favoured by any party political Brighton & Hove administration.

 

[e77]

I am sure this had been answered elsewhere, but why don't Ashford trains stop at Falmer on matchdays/evenings?

 

[Surport Local Team]

"I happen to think that a large out-of-town park and ride site could contribute to a reduction in traffic congestion in Brighton city center. A large out-of-town P&R site might also help the Albion and help get supporters on to the city's public transport network. But this is not a solution favoured by the current Green administration".[/QUOTE] LB

bloody greens! more trains are too expensive, more park ride is not the answer, they do not like the car!! what is their solution out of interest.

i agree LB out of town p&r is an answer. their r masses of people coming from the east/north east of the county. alot of these r at present driving into Brighton Mithra's house park and ride, or going past the club adding to the traffic to get to mill lane p&r. this is adding to so much traffic at and around the busiest area the Amex and Brighton area. for the greens to say they r not in favour of p&r say at Kingston is crazy (wasting so much fuel). driving past amex into Brighton (adding to congestion). getting bus back to amex. then getting bus into Brighton then driving out of Brighton back past the congested amex. crazy


I know their was a farmer that offered their land for park and ride around the Kingston area. worth the club considering

i agree

 

[Lord Bracknell]

I don't think it's a solution favoured by any party political Brighton & Hove administration.

... mainly because it has been impossible to find an out-of-town P&R site that is acceptable to local residents.

 

[The Oldman]

That's a crazy idea. Have you seen how many non-football passengers use the railway on Saturdays? You can't just turn them away because there's a football match on.

and herein lies the problem for the Brighton Greens. Public transport on a Saturday in the city and travelling in and out is already running at full or nearly full. On non fotball days I frequently use the 12 bus into Brighton. Even at Seaford I often cannot get on the bus as it's already full from Eastbourne. Look at the queues at Churchill square on a Saturday afternoon for both city routes and out of town. Then look at the number of buses using North Street. Can you really get many more in there? Same for the railways. The Seaford - Brighton line is very full on Saturdays. If you want more people to use public transport then capacity has to be increased. But how?
I am not convinced you will get many to switch to cycles although the suggestion of Boris Bikes is worth a go. As for walking I'm amazed how many are walking so far this season but it is Summer. Not sure so many will do it in the winter.

In Green Party thinking it may just be that the city cannot cope with another 8000 football supporters.

 

[Herr Tubthumper]

Because some time in the next year or so we will need to get planning permission from the council to get more seats. One question that is bound to come up is transport policy and the question will be asked "What are you doing about sustainable transport?" I reckon that telling a Green-led council that we're asking pedestrians and cyclists to subsidise car drivers would be a sure-fire way to ensure that our request for more seats will be turned down.

Maybe reword the response to "we pay for supporter's use of public transport and P&R with a £1 levy on all tickets. The smartcard doubles as a free travel card, thereby encouraging use of public transport."

 

[Lord Bracknell]

I am sure this had been answered elsewhere, but why don't Ashford trains stop at Falmer on matchdays/evenings?

In general terms, the 2-car Ashford trains run non-stop through Falmer, Moulsecoomb and London Road because they are full of passengers making longer distance journeys.

Southern do increase the number of trains that stop at Falmer on matchdays - by not running one of the Ashford trains west of Eastbourne, and replacing it with an extra eight coach Eastbourne - Brighton train that stops at Falmer. By the time the normal 2-car Ashford trains re-appear in the timetable, the numbers of people waiting for a Falmer train have dropped to the point at which the normal four trains an hour are adequate to cope.

Except, of course, when there is extra time played in a cup match, when everyone is travelling 45 minutes or so later than anticipated.

 

[Brovion]

Because the travel vouchers are also used on the park and ride.

Now, if the suggestion is that the club should include the cost of the travel voucher with the ticker and the people who use the P&R have to pay extra on top of that, then, yes, I think that's a reasonable option. But I don't think that that is what was proposed.

Good idea about the unused travel voucher too - that's something that would work - half of Harveys would be better though.

I think that getting 8000 more people to the Amex is going to be a big headache and I agree with Lord B that producing more P&Rs isn't the right answer. Personally, as I stated a few weeks ago, I think one solution is to encourage more car-sharing by predatory pricing for one or two person-occupied cars, coupled with an expansion of bike-parking. It's certainly something that the club really has to address if it wants to get these extra seats and I really don't think more car parking is going to endear us to the city councillors.

I disagree about the P&R, I think providing more is a great solution - and not just for football. Brighton the city needs a decent out-of-town P&R for general visitors and I can't believe the Greens think there are 'too many' car parks. Well sadly I can actually, and I'm sure they'd just like to close them down without providing a PRACTICAL alternative as opposed to their usual wishful thinking - but this isn't the thread for that discussion!

 

[Hunting 784561]

In Green Party thinking it may just be that the city cannot cope with another 8000 football supporters.

If the Green Party start to mess with or obstruct what is now one of the greatest success stories going in this City, then they will get a thoroughly deserved electoral kicking.

 

[Lord Bracknell]

and herein lies the problem for the Brighton Greens. Public transport on a Saturday in the city and travelling in and out is already running at full or nearly full. On non fotball days I frequently use the 12 bus into Brighton. Even at Seaford I often cannot get on the bus as it's already full from Eastbourne. Look at the queues at Churchill square on a Saturday afternoon for both city routes and out of town. Then look at the number of buses using North Street. Can you really get many more in there? Same for the railways.

On a typical Saturday, there are well over 150,000 passenger journeys made on Brighton & Hove buses. Football travel is fairly insignificant in comparison.

 

[The Oldman]

On a typical Saturday, there are well over 150,000 passenger journeys made on Brighton & Hove buses. Football travel is fairly insignificant in comparison.

Agreed Ed but presumably the Greens would like a fair proportion of the additional 8000 spectators to use public transport. Even if they said 50% that would mean a minimum of 8000 journeys by either bus or train. I'm not sure that is insignificant.

 

[The Merry Prankster]

Is offsetting a viable component of a viable transport plan?

Ed, how on earth do all the out of town supermarkets get away with it?

 

[Lord Bracknell]

Agreed Ed but presumably the Greens would like a fair proportion of the additional 8000 spectators to use public transport. Even if they said 50% that would mean a minimum of 8000 journeys by either bus or train. I'm not sure that is insignificant.

I agree and I'd like to see more people opt for non-car modes of transport. But there is a genuine problem. The trains are full and there may not be enough buses in the city to cope with more football spectators - even allowing for the fact that extra buses are being brought in from places like Worthing, Crawley and London.

 

[The Peanut Roaster]

Is offsetting a viable component of a viable transport plan?

Ed, how on earth do all the out of town supermarkets get away with it?

The same as Harry Redknapp.