Translation costing public £100m

[Lady Whistledown]

Just a shame we dont look after some of our own the same way we look after some of the immigrants eh!

Sadly, your argument re looking after "our own" is unfounded.

You seem to suggest that immigrants are showered with benefits at the expense of, what, proper Brits?

Well I can tell you, there's hundreds of thousands of lazy British spongers in the UK, sitting on their arses all day, watching Jeremy Kyle, and complaining that the foreigners take all their jobs, when in reality, they think that a supermarket or cleaning job is beneath them. They'd rather sit there and claim their state benefits than get off their backsides and do an honest day's work.

To suggest that immigrants are hoovering up all the government's handouts is utterly wrong. Yes, the disabled could do with more money. But who couldn't? So could the elderly, so could the schools, the nurses in the NHS, everyone would LIKE a bit more money. It's just a question of where we find it.

The "immigrants are to blame" argument is cheap and lazy thinking.

 

[Guinness Boy]

Marvellous - I await his first NSC post in Arabic with baited breath then.

Interesting, explain to me how this issue is going to affect your vote then. I haven't heard the Tories say they are going to withdraw these translation services.

I don't recall saying that Goldstone could speak or write Arabic, that this specific issue would be in a manefesto or indeed that if it was it would be in the Tories manefesto.

What I said (deliberately) was that I wouldn't put my words on anyone else. I would also expect that the Tories will have some sort of tax and immigration policy beyond their current 'less tax, less immigration' vagueness and that we'll all be able to vote for it come 2009 or so.

I could post in Chinese for you though you'd be the only saddo on this entire board who'd bother reading and checking the thing. Now how about actually answering some of the points I put to you

 

[London Irish]

I don't recall saying that Goldstone could speak or write Arabic, that this specific issue would be in a manefesto or indeed that if it was it would be in the Tories manefesto.

What I said (deliberately) was that I wouldn't put my words on anyone else. I would also expect that the Tories will have some sort of tax and immigration policy beyond their current 'less tax, less immigration' vagueness and that we'll all be able to vote for it come 2009 or so.

None of the mainsteam political parties will put these translation costs in their manifesto, it's too piffling an issue.

Which is why I questioned how this issue would influence your vote in a general election - it cannot, unless you wanted to vote for one of the fringe parties whose only electoral message will be to make life as difficult as possible for immigrants in this country.

 

[sten_super]

Re-read. The thread starter lived in Japan for 4 years and is now going through a process of learning French so he can live in Canada. I spent 3 and a half years living in Japan and Taiwan. Goldstone used to live in the Middle East.

I wouldn't like to put words on to other people's typewriters but for me, the fact that I did it myself, twice, makes me more annoyed when others don't bother.

It's vaguely amusing that that the liberals here are the ones displaying the most prejudice. Old people can't learn? Whoops. Foreigners are too stupid and poor to get English lessons? *cough*

ooops. Apologies. Now have.

I don't understand the typewriter reference. Is that aimed at me or someone else?

I don't see the point in arguing against human nature. Saying 'make them learn english' is all well and good, but I don't think realistically is going to happen, or would make that much difference. And I stand by my point that the more you attempt to force people to look within their own community, the more likely they are to never leave that community, and not attempt to do anything outside of that community, which just worsens the problems of integration.

 

[tedebear]

Sadly, your argument re looking after "our own" is unfounded.

You seem to suggest that immigrants are showered with benefits at the expense of, what, proper Brits?

Well I can tell you, there's hundreds of thousands of lazy British spongers in the UK, sitting on their arses all day, watching Jeremy Kyle, and complaining that the foreigners take all their jobs, when in reality, they think that a supermarket or cleaning job is beneath them. They'd rather sit there and claim their state benefits than get off their backsides and do an honest day's work.

To suggest that immigrants are hoovering up all the government's handouts is utterly wrong. Yes, the disabled could do with more money. But who couldn't? So could the elderly, so could the schools, the nurses in the NHS, everyone would LIKE a bit more money. It's just a question of where we find it.

The "immigrants are to blame" argument is cheap and lazy thinking.

Completely agree!

 

[Guinness Boy]

I don't understand the typewriter reference. Is that aimed at me or someone else?

Typewriters probably should say keyboard, monitor PC. Play on words on 'i don't want to put words in to anyone elses mouth' - except we are not talking but typing.

As in I am only speaking for myself NOT Goldstone, NOT T.S. Certainly not meant at you or anyone else personally.

I confuse myself sometimes

 

[Lady Whistledown]

Incidentally, one would assume that if certain services, warnings, and so on weren't translated, it would lead to more people from non-English speaking communities getting in trouble, or getting themselves hurt, for example, and thus costing the NHS or the justice system a lot more than a few simple leaflets with instructions in Urdu or Spanish.

 

[goldstone]

Marvellous - I await his first NSC post in Arabic with baited breath then.

Yes, I did spend a year living in Qatar. No, I didn't learn the language.

I went there knowing that there was plenty of English spoken and that I could get by very well without speaking Arabic. For that reason I took the job.

I also worked in Belgium for a year. I had no intention of improving (or using) my schoolboy French, but I knew I could get by without it.

Would I go to live/work in France, Italy, Spain where I know that local language skills are necessary? No. My choice. And I don't expect the taxpayers of those countries to waste their money on translating everything into English for my convenience.

Which brings back to my original point.

If Johnny Foreigners from any part of the world wish to come and live in England they should be aware that our native language is English and in order to live here they probably need to learn our language. If they can't / won't then hard effing luck.

And regarding an earlier comment about helping the poor souls when they first arrive ... I suggest they take English lessons BEFORE they arrive here.

Rant over ...

 

[sten_super]

I'm not keen on directly quoting you goldstone, as I don't know your personal circumstances, but with respect how can you have known that you didn't need the language? What if you had been hospitalised (this is why I'm not keen on using you as a specific example, maybe you were), would you have then been able to survive on your french? or would you have needed an interpreter there, quite possibly paid for by the state, to explain what was happening to you?

 

[Man of Harveys]

Just as an observation, I've found that, if you're abroad, knowing a foreign language is important not for the vital necessities of life in most situations, but for the nicer things that make it all worthwhile, like social interaction, making friends, chatting up foreign girls etc. Of course, none of this applies if you're an ugly Billy no mates loser.

 

[Gwylan]

I'm not keen on directly quoting you goldstone, as I don't know your personal circumstances, but with respect how can you have known that you didn't need the language? What if you had been hospitalised (this is why I'm not keen on using you as a specific example, maybe you were), would you have then been able to survive on your french? or would you have needed an interpreter there, quite possibly paid for by the state, to explain what was happening to you?

Or what if you'd been arrested?

I was arrested by the KGB in Moscow (and, not speaking a word of Russian I was bricking it). Fortunately, they provided an interpreter and I could prove my innocence.

Presumably, you'd have refused an interpreter as you wouldn't want to sponge on the state -even if it meant spending some time in jail.

 

[goldstone]

I'm not keen on directly quoting you goldstone, as I don't know your personal circumstances, but with respect how can you have known that you didn't need the language? What if you had been hospitalised (this is why I'm not keen on using you as a specific example, maybe you were), would you have then been able to survive on your french? or would you have needed an interpreter there, quite possibly paid for by the state, to explain what was happening to you?

As it happens my company would have provided any necessary translation service if I was hospitalised.

Otherwise it would have been a risk I would have taken. There would be no way I would have expected the State to foot the bill because I couldn't be bothered to learn their language.

 

[London Irish]

Yes, I did spend a year living in Qatar. No, I didn't learn the language.

I went there knowing that there was plenty of English spoken and that I could get by very well without speaking Arabic. For that reason I took the job.

I also worked in Belgium for a year. I had no intention of improving (or using) my schoolboy French, but I knew I could get by without it.

Would I go to live/work in France, Italy, Spain where I know that local language skills are necessary? No. My choice. And I don't expect the taxpayers of those countries to waste their money on translating everything into English for my convenience.

Are you seriously saying that the taxpayer in all those countries you have had the good fortune to work in/visit spend NO money on any kind of services for English-speaking visitors? No money spent on bilingual signage or literature, no money spent on training officials to deal with either English visitors or the companies they work for?

It's just not credible, is it?

Unfortunately I think you want to have your cake and eat it, you or your employer will be bound to have benefited at some point along the line from foreign-based officialdom yet you begrudge spending a comparatively small amount of money here to help integrate immigrants better.

If Johnny Foreigners from any part of the world wish to come and live in England they should be aware that our native language is English and in order to live here they probably need to learn our language. If they can't / won't then hard effing luck.

Can we humanise these people you caricature as johnny foreigner?

As I described earlier, the person who will typically spend many years here not learning the language will be members of traditional Asian family structures, often mothers in nurturing roles, who know that they can get plenty of support from other members of her family who speak the host language.

Bevendean earlier smeared these people as benefit scroungers - what bollocks. They would not qualify for benefits as their kin are usually economically active and the thought of submitting to English state means-testers would be anathama to these proud, family people.

These mothers devote their time to raising their kids who generally excel in our schools, who then go on to be very successful members of our society performing socially beneficial jobs for us all.

Rather than bitching pointlessly about whether these often elderly people should learn English, I often think it's a shame that the English can't learn their great parenting skills that often leads Asian kids to excel above the norm.

Now obviously there will be other categories of younger immigrant workers who only plan to spend a limited time here, maybe the Poles fit better into that category, who don't see being here for longer than maybe a year or so, who don't have the time or inclination to improve their English for the short time they are here. They rely on their works foreman or workmates to get by.

But they are no worse people than you Goldstone and your lack of a foreign language. The small amount of money we spend on translation services for them is well-spent as these people are making a tremendous contribution to our economy. Thankfully, both Labour and Tory parties are united on that point. Again, just the racist BNP disagree.

 

[British Bulldog]

Sadly, your argument re looking after "our own" is unfounded.

You seem to suggest that immigrants are showered with benefits at the expense of, what, proper Brits?

Well I can tell you, there's hundreds of thousands of lazy British spongers in the UK, sitting on their arses all day, watching Jeremy Kyle, and complaining that the foreigners take all their jobs, when in reality, they think that a supermarket or cleaning job is beneath them. They'd rather sit there and claim their state benefits than get off their backsides and do an honest day's work.

To suggest that immigrants are hoovering up all the government's handouts is utterly wrong. Yes, the disabled could do with more money. But who couldn't? So could the elderly, so could the schools, the nurses in the NHS, everyone would LIKE a bit more money. It's just a question of where we find it.

The "immigrants are to blame" argument is cheap and lazy thinking.

If you choose to see my argument as cheap and lazy then thats your freedom of choice but too me it's valid. I fully agree with you on the fact thats there's loads of lazy brits who would rather sponge off the social than do a days work & my views on them are very low as well. But I fail to see why people can continually defend and justify this sort of money being spent on immigrants who in some cases just dont want to learn our language, When we have people like the disabled in this country who the same people dont even give a thought too?

 

[British Bulldog]

it's a great shame that 'our own' are not as educated or as hard working as most immigrants. It's a shame 'our own' dont pay as many taxes as immigrants.

I'm sure those words will be very comforting to some of the pensioners in this country who have grafted and paid taxes all their lives, But come this winter will yet again be worried about whether they can afford a simple thing like heating to keep them alive!