Translation costing public £100m

[Man of Harveys]

I am very pleased that you have experienced positive, engaged people from outside the UK in your local shop, thats OK , but surely you have only proved my point.

The people who remain culturally and linguistically isolated should aspire to exactly that and then we can all move on together.

I'd love what you're saying to be the case but the dedicated bigot would only find some other reason to point why "they're" so different.

Hey - a British Sikh is tearing through the Aussies on their turf and cheered on by every British sports fan - I make that a great day for multicultural Britain, and a very bad one for the Nazi/BNP supporters who'd never have let Monty Panesar's family into the UK in the first place. That's something to celebrate too.

 

[Guinness Boy]

Hey - a British Sikh is tearing through the Aussies on their turf and cheered on by every British sports fan - I make that a great day for multicultural Britain, and a very bad one for the Nazi/BNP supporters who'd never have let Monty Panesar's family into the UK in the first place. That's something to celebrate too.

That on the other hand is spot on. Let's be clear, my bugbear is with any person in any country being too lazy to learn their local language - it's an anti-lazy thing with me, not an anti immigrant.

Guys like Monty, Ian Wright, Sol Campbell and Saj Mahmood make me proud to be English whereas the likes of the BNP make me ashamed and embarressed.

 

[Bevendean Hillbilly]

I'd love what you're saying to be the case but the dedicated bigot would only find some other reason to point why "they're" so different.

Hey - a British Sikh is tearing through the Aussies on their turf and cheered on by every British sports fan - I make that a great day for multicultural Britain, and a very bad one for the Nazi/BNP supporters who'd never have let Monty Panesar's family into the UK in the first place. That's something to celebrate too.

Agreed. Monty Panesar is a fantastic advert for how things should and could be if we all just pitched in together. He is a valued team mate among the squad, takes abuse from the Aussies because of his ethnicity and religion, and is proud to play for "his" country. The difference between examples like him and someone who prefers to live in some sort of bubble within broader society, not willing to integrate is what I would like us to look at.

This Country is renowned across the world for its tolerance and adaptability, but does anyone really, truly think that cutting yourself off from the rest of society is ever going to work??

I have absolutely no agenda here, but my gut tells me that approach that has no place in Britain today.

 

[Man of Harveys]

But, as LI has pointed out, it's always just a generational thing - it is in the UK, it was in Germany with the Turks in the 60s and 70s.

If I moved anywhere in the world, I'd learn the local language but I'd struggle at first. But if I stayed there, my kids would be fluent. So, seeing as older people tend to need healthcare more, I don't have a problem with the government spending a few quid to make sure that they get the full benefit of the taxes they and their children have spent. Better than pissing away 1000 times that amount pointlessly in Iraq, to state the obvious.

 

[Bevendean Hillbilly]

But, as LI has pointed out, it's always just a generational thing - it is in the UK, it was in Germany with the Turks in the 60s and 70s.

If I moved anywhere in the world, I'd learn the local language but I'd struggle at first. But if I stayed there, my kids would be fluent. So, seeing as older people tend to need healthcare more, I don't have a problem with the government spending a few quid to make sure that they get the full benefit of the taxes they and their children have spent. Better than pissing away 1000 times that amount pointlessly in Iraq, to state the obvious.

Again accepted. My point is that when the original migrants came there was no safety net, no translators, no established community from their mother culture, no leaflets, signs, etc. printed in their own language so they HAD to learn English or consign themselves to jobs where they did not have to communicate with anyone.

LI with his cavalier attitude to logic has mixed this up with the situation today where older non English speakers are being brought over either by the established family already here, or are relying on younger, English speakers to look after them within their own cultural setting, all I am saying is that this is absolutely NOT the way a healthy society develops.

 

[Guinness Boy]

But, as LI has pointed out, it's always just a generational thing - it is in the UK, it was in Germany with the Turks in the 60s and 70s.

If I moved anywhere in the world, I'd learn the local language but I'd struggle at first. But if I stayed there, my kids would be fluent. So, seeing as older people tend to need healthcare more, I don't have a problem with the government spending a few quid to make sure that they get the full benefit of the taxes they and their children have spent. Better than pissing away 1000 times that amount pointlessly in Iraq, to state the obvious.

Being old does not make you stupid, nor should it be an excuse for laziness. My Dad in his 60s is planning to retire to France and is brushing up his O level French as we speak. A friend of mine recently married a Taiwanese girl and his septagenarian mother has started learning Mandarin so she can thank her daughter in law in her own language and get about in taxis and trains when she visits them.

I think spending that money on subsidized English lessons would be a far more valuable use - the student gets to engage their brain and the country gets another well adjusted immigrant and a happier multi-cultral society to dangle in front of the BNP idiots.

 

[lost in london]

If we don't spend the money on translating, then what? Thousands of people are left without access to justice, health care, social services etc. The bigots will say fair enough, they should learn the language. Being one of the richest countries in the world means, in my opinion, that we have a duty to help those less fortunate than ourselves.

The problem is that the idiots seem to have this perfect view of all white Britons, and hate all immigrants. It's that kind of prejudicial approach that is fostered by the tabloid press, and that the morons just lap up. We are all different, and all the same, there are lazy freeloading whites, and lazy freeloading immigrants.

 

[Guinness Boy]

If we don't spend the money on translating, then what?

Why should "WE" spend it? As I see it immigrants fall in to 4 categories

1) Professionals / those coming here for work - for whom either English will be a pre-requisite to a job or who should be able to provide a private translator

2) Joining family - in which case the family should be able to translate

3) Illegal immigrants - who should just be deported

4) Asylum seekers - this is the area where I would spend the money on English lessons since, if the case is accepted they will be staying here long term. After all, since they're seeking asylum they won't be rushing home.

 

[Gwylan]

To put that £100m into context, this report in today's Guardian points out that civil servants could save £660m a year just on buying cheaper stationery.

http://environment.guardian.co.uk/ethicalliving/story/0,,1971661,00.html

£100m to help provide information lthat could save someone's life looks infinitely better value than spending on Post-It notes to me.

 

[Man of Harveys]

Being old does not make you stupid, nor should it be an excuse for laziness. My Dad in his 60s is planning to retire to France and is brushing up his O level French as we speak. A friend of mine recently married a Taiwanese girl and his septagenarian mother has started learning Mandarin so she can thank her daughter in law in her own language and get about in taxis and trains when she visits them.

I think spending that money on subsidized English lessons would be a far more valuable use - the student gets to engage their brain and the country gets another well adjusted immigrant and a happier multi-cultral society to dangle in front of the BNP idiots.

True, I agree - although it's a very different proposition to move away from one affluent and (relatively) well-educated society to another and decide to take language lessons as part of that move, rather than, say, be picked up from relative poverty in the middle of Anatolia or Baluchistan and make your way to the "west".

I agree entirely with the language lessons idea but there's also the danger of a timelag with that. As others have pointed out, this really isn't much money in terms of government spending at all and I doubt that the ambition to work - always THE dominant characteristic of immigrants - would involve not learning the language of the country where you're heading. You get less work if you rely on leaflets on your mother tongue (that's NOT a Frank reference, I promise).

 

[goldstone]

If we don't spend the money on translating, then what? Thousands of people are left without access to justice, health care, social services etc. The bigots will say fair enough, they should learn the language. Being one of the richest countries in the world means, in my opinion, that we have a duty to help those less fortunate than ourselves.

Then what

Then they'd have to learn our language or effing go back to where they came from.

No one asked me if I wanted my tax money to go on translation services for immigrants. If they had, the answer would be a big fat "NO".

Somehow I think that money could be used for many far better causes, not wasted on people to effing lazy to learn the language of the country they live in.

And no excuses about the elderly ... too old to learn English, etc. etc. If they can't or won't then either go home or have a relative or someone from your community handle matters for you.

NOT THE TAXPAYER!!!

 

[lost in london]

Then what

Then they'd have to learn our language or effing go back to where they came from.

No one asked me if I wanted my tax money to go on translation services for immigrants. If they had, the answer would be a big fat "NO".

Somehow I think that money could be used for many far better causes, not wasted on people to effing lazy to learn the language of the country they live in.

And no excuses about the elderly ... too old to learn English, etc. etc. If they can't or won't then either go home or have a relative or someone from your community handle matters for you.

NOT THE TAXPAYER!!!

Fortunately no-one does ask you.

 

[Parson Henry]

Fortunately no-one does ask you.

I asked Goldstone where the loos where once, so that proves you wrong.

 

[Barrel of Fun]

To put that £100m into context, this report in today's Guardian points out that civil servants could save £660m a year just on buying cheaper stationery.

http://environment.guardian.co.uk/ethicalliving/story/0,,1971661,00.html

£100m to help provide information lthat could save someone's life looks infinitely better value than spending on Post-It notes to me.

Amen to that.

I was looking for that article earlier, having caught the snippet of it somewhere.

I suspect a fair few of them are immigrants as well! Just take, take, take!

 

[Guinness Boy]

Fortunately no-one does ask you.

They do though. It's called a general election. Normally held about once every 4 years.

 

[sten_super]

I wanted to reply to this thread... but I find the whole thing far too depressing. Especially goldstone's "I shouldn't be paying for anything to do with immigrants" response.

As said before, £100m really is nothing in the grand scheme of things. It's easy for us to sit behind our various monitors and say 'why do these people need these translation services?'. From what I can see very few of the people on this thread have been in this situation, can appreciate what it's like moving to a foreign country, and having to adapt. To those that think that everyone should have to learn the language... does that mean that the (for example) Polish worker who was taught no english at school, that arrives in this country, should not be able to go to the job centre, or go down the shop, or do anything that requires a knowledge of the language, until he/she has had the time to learn english? Really?

People not learning english is unavoidable. Of course it isn't desirable, but it's going to happen. Saying 'well we won't provide any translation services to these people' will just make the communities more introspective, as they rely more and more on just people speaking the same language to do everything for them. What we have to do is encourage people to learn - subsidise courses, etc. and hope that 2nd and 3rd generations of these immigrants learn the language and get involved in wider society.

I've just realised, I said I wasn't going to reply, and now I have.

 

[tedebear]

I'm all for providing translation services for those who need help. I'd hate to think someone died or was seriously hurt because they couldn't speak English. So hopsitals, emergency services etc is a necessary!

What annoys me is when regular street signs and location maps, have started showing up in other languages, in the Rocks area of Sydney some tourist signs are in about 5 languages, it really pisses me off frankly! I've seen it here also and I really think it detracts from the English charm!

 

[Guinness Boy]

From what I can see very few of the people on this thread have been in this situation, can appreciate what it's like moving to a foreign country, and having to adapt.

Re-read. The thread starter lived in Japan for 4 years and is now going through a process of learning French so he can live in Canada. I spent 3 and a half years living in Japan and Taiwan. Goldstone used to live in the Middle East.

I wouldn't like to put words on to other people's typewriters but for me, the fact that I did it myself, twice, makes me more annoyed when others don't bother.

It's vaguely amusing that that the liberals here are the ones displaying the most prejudice. Old people can't learn? Whoops. Foreigners are too stupid and poor to get English lessons? *cough*

 

[London Irish]

They do though. It's called a general election. Normally held about once every 4 years.

Interesting, explain to me how this issue is going to affect your vote then. I haven't heard the Tories say they are going to withdraw these translation services.

 

[London Irish]

Goldstone used to live in the Middle East.

Marvellous - I await his first NSC post in Arabic with baited breath then.