[Politics] Tory voters- where do you go from here?

[fly high]

Blair was a newly elected MP in 83.

I assumed the post I was replying to referred to Blair's landslide win when even many Tory voters felt a surge of optimism.

 

[Uh_huh_him]

As a natural Tory voter who voted Labour this time around, I say this with humility and hopefully with a big dose of realism.

Look at the voting figures, not the seat numbers in the House. In some ways Labour hardly won this election, the Tories just threw it away with incompetence, self interest and being nearly entirely dear when it came to listening to the electorate. It will take time to do two things, firstly to purge the party of idiots who believe themselves to be superior to those around them (although the result has made good headway on that front alone), and to win back the publics trust.

But it should be noted that public opinion flip flops far more quickly than ever before these days, maybe a result of the immediacy of the world we inhabit these days. I have often thought that two terms of Tory rule needs to be balanced by one term of Labour, maybe right now ten years of Labour is required. What I would suggest is do not make the error of writing off the Tories for the long term yet, they are a very resilient bunch.

I would never write off the Tories.
They have been in power for 2/3s of my life.
This is primarily due to the votes of Centre left/Left being split between two parties.

In reality the "opinion flip flop" doesn't really exist.
In extreme times, It intensifies and drags the left/right libertarian/authoritarian voter slightly more to the extremes.
The big difference has been Reform. Not standing in 2019, standing in 2024.

The Tories are now in the position that Labour found themselves in 81.
Seriously depleted and battling for their political territory on multiple fronts.

 

[Uh_huh_him]

I assumed the post I was replying to referred to Blair's landslide win when even many Tory voters felt a surge of optimism.

Fair dos

 

[Flounce]

That’s really big of you. hedge Fund manager who got rich out of the financial crash or a tool makers son? If you have to ask then you must really like being screwed over.

No truth in the suggestion that Starmer’s father OWNED the factory and he has been economical with the truth about his father then?

Not saying I know it to be a fact just asking.

I am happy to see if Starmer can follow up on his promises and turn the country around btw, I just can’t warm to anything about him as things stand. IF his father did actually own the factory it is not a good look to make out that he was just a toolmaker though.

You’ll notice I have not been as rude to you as you were to me in the above post I hope. Is working as a hedge fund manager something to be sneered at?

 

[Uh_huh_him]

The think they have two options.

Jeremy hunts leaving speech was decent. Then You have braverman… they will have to go with either centre or more right… disappointingly I reckon they will go braverman. Go more vile in order to try and get the reform voters back.

Agreed - I thought Hunt's speech was excellent (surprisingly) but he won't gain enough support from the remaining MPs to win the leadership contest.
I hope they go for Braverman, for the LOLs.

 

[Uh_huh_him]

Reform picked up votes from both major parties and I can see that many voters have swung to the extremes. See the support of Corbyn.

But to suggest that you win power by going the same way in this country is frankly bullshit.

You are clearly confused by how you think politically (which is a fact) with how most other people think, which is also a fact.

A Government that thought it wasn't "right wing enough" got removed by one with thoughts to the centre and left.

That's democracy.

Agreed.
but pedantically, the poster didn't state the aim was to win power, just to win Votes.
There may well be more Votes available to them from right wing policies than there will be from Centrist Policies.
Labour and Libs have the centre sewn up and seem like stable options.

The tories by contrast have never been so unstable.
Their "Big Beasts" have been booted out by Bojo's purge and the electorate on Thursday.

I would agree with the poster there are more votes for them from the right than there is from the centre.
I'm not sure whether they believe there is enough to get them back into Power.

 

[Sid and the Sharknados]

Agreed.
but pedantically, the poster didn't state the aim was to win power, just to win Votes.
There may well be more Votes available to them from right wing policies than there will be from Centrist Policies.
Labour and Libs have the centre sewn up and seem like stable options.

The tories by contrast have never been so unstable.
Their "Big Beasts" have been booted out by Bojo's purge and the electorate on Thursday.

I would agree with the poster there are more votes for them from the right than there is from the centre.
I'm not sure whether they believe there is enough to get them back into Power.

Well this is the thing isn't it, you can win an enormous pile of votes but you're better off winning just enough in the right places.

Edit: And you don't do that by appealing to your core left/right wing vote, whether you're labour or conservative.

 

[Uh_huh_him]

No truth in the suggestion that Starmer’s father OWNED the factory and he has been economical with the truth about his father then?

Not saying I know it to be a fact just asking.

I am happy to see if Starmer can follow up on his promises and turn the country around btw, I just can’t warm to anything about him as things stand. IF his father did actually own the factory it is not a good look to make out that he was just a toolmaker though.

You’ll notice I have not been as rude to you as you were to me in the above post I hope. Is working as a hedge fund manager something to be sneered at?

First I'd heard of this.
Only evidence I could find was a couple of spurious claims on political sites.
This seems to be based on a quote from an unrelated local news report from his dad "Keir spent the next 6 months working on the machine in my Factory".
His father's quote could also be interpreted as "Keir worked for 6 months in the same factory I worked at."

Companies House has Rodney Starmer as a Director of a Donkey Breed Society and nothing else.
Not saying the claim it isn't true, but on the face of it, it seems to be hearsay.

 

[Uh_huh_him]

The Tories won’t get anywhere near power until they’ve had their equivalent of “Kinnock faces down Militant” where a centrist leader faces down and conclusively beats the headbangers in the rank and file.

It’s pretty clear they’re in no mood to have this conversation right now, and as such will not win the next election unless Starmer punches the
King or something. The lesson they’re choosing to listen to, predictably but wrongly, is they need to be “more Conservative coz Reform”. Music to Starmer’s ears.

When there’s a Tory leader who is prepared to talk about Brexit in a negative sense and backed by the membership (and not just in a “it’s great and been betrayed” sense), that’ll be when the Tories are in an electable space again.

Good post.

At some point there needs to be some proper soul-searching about the last 10 years.

 

[Bodian]

First I'd heard of this.
Only evidence I could find was a couple of spurious claims on political sites.
This seems to be based on a quote from an unrelated local news report from his dad "Keir spent the next 6 months working on the machine in my Factory".
His father's quote could also be interpreted as "Keir worked for 6 months in the same factory I worked at."

Companies House has Rodney Starmer as a Director of a Donkey Breed Society and nothing else.
Not saying the claim it isn't true, but on the face of it, it seems to be hearsay.

Keir drinks snakebite - so that's fine by me!

Keir Starmer: From indie kid to prime minister

His route to No 10 has been one of twists and turns, from lively student days, decades in law to a late career change.

www.bbc.co.uk

 

[Uh_huh_him]

Hunt rules out standing for leader.

Sensible lad

 

[Sid and the Sharknados]

You can't just add the Conservative and Reform votes together.

There's all sorts of reasons for people to vote for different parties, and the tories shifting to the right will cost them as many votes as they'd pick up from the Conservative minded Reform side.

Also, the moment Reform dissappear or merge with the Tories, the dedicated protest voters will just dissappear to vote for somebody else, just like they did when the Lib Dems went into coalition.

Just to emphasise this point, I was just reading an article about Liz Truss' defeat, and the Reform candidate there was apparently much more concerned by proposals for a local megafarm rather than anything that might be considered right/left wing or "proper conservative policies".

'“The big thing for me on the doorstep,” he said, “has been the megafarm that is planned near some of the villages here … an absolutely massive site for chickens and pigs. Liz Truss has failed to [campaign to] block it."'

‘She wasn’t sure how to get off the stage’: Liz Truss’s ungracious count retreat caps political humiliation

The former prime minister had said she was running ‘on her record in government’. For once, she was taken at her word

www.theguardian.com

What would a 'megafarm' mean for Methwold?

Millions of chickens and tens of thousands of pigs may be reared on the site.

www.bbc.co.uk

 

[Chicken Run]

Who would you like to see as the next leader?

Someone uncomplicated who i’ve never heard of with a bit of luck

 

[jcdenton08]

I’ve said loads in the past so sorry for my position not moving and being a stuck record. I want strong opposition to try and hold the government to account, so I am hoping for a complete refresh of the Tories, assuming they remain the opposition past the current term.

Funnily enough, a few of the sound bites on election night from key Tories were telling about their fundamental lack of understanding of what has happened. Talk of Boris being missed so much (Mogg) and needing to lurch (even further) to the right to get Reform’s vote.

They are missing the point completely.

They need to go back to the centre and ditch the loony (expensive!) Rwanda stuff, the constant lies and sleaze and completely reform the party.

This means unceremoniously - and ASAP - getting rid of the high profile extremes, the Bravermans of not only their inner circles but their general support. Exactly like Labour did with getting the undesirables out.

Then start apologising for losing their way, and starting again at the bottom floor.

 

[Uh_huh_him]

I’ve said loads in the past so sorry for my position not moving and being a stuck record. I want strong opposition to try and hold the government to account, so I am hoping for a complete refresh of the Tories, assuming they remain the opposition past the current term.

Funnily enough, a few of the sound bites on election night from key Tories were telling about their fundamental lack of understanding of what has happened. Talk of Boris being missed so much (Mogg) and needing to lurch (even further) to the right to get Reform’s vote.

They are missing the point completely.

They need to go back to the centre and ditch the loony (expensive!) Rwanda stuff, the constant lies and sleaze and completely reform the party.

This means unceremoniously - and ASAP - getting rid of the high profile extremes, the Bravermans of not only their inner circles but their general support. Exactly like Labour did with getting the undesirables out.

Then start apologising for losing their way, and starting again at the bottom floor.

I hear this term "hold them to account" often and I agree entirely, but why does there need to be strong opposition to do that?
All it really needs is a competent Leader of the opposition.

Personally I would rather have a government with a clear path to enact good policies, they have researched thoroughly and are committed to.
I hope and believe that is exactly the type of government Starmer intends to lead.

If they get it wrong and things are worse in 5 years time, then we will boot them out.

 

[jcdenton08]

I hear this term "hold them to account" often and I agree entirely, but why does there need to be strong opposition to do that?

Because of the division of media time allocated to each political party outside of a major news story/scandal, also time in PMQ’s.

 

[Uh_huh_him]

Someone uncomplicated who i’ve never heard of with a bit of luck

I think that is more likely than any of the obvious candidates right now.

Maybe there's another John Major in the backbenches

 

[jcdenton08]

I hear this term "hold them to account" often and I agree entirely, but why does there need to be strong opposition to do that?
All it really needs is a competent Leader of the opposition.

Personally I would rather have a government with a clear path to enact good policies, they have researched thoroughly and are committed to.
I hope and believe that is exactly the type of government Starmer intends to lead.

If they get it wrong and things are worse in 5 years time, then we will boot them out.

And I hope and believe that too, but a strong opposition is a fundament of democracy because unchecked power is never good. They can pass, within reason, everything they’ve pledged due to their majority. A dissenting voice is always welcome.

 

[Uh_huh_him]

Because of the division of media time allocated to each political party outside of a major news story/scandal, also time in PMQ’s.

I'm sorry, but I don't follow your argument.
Or probably just I'm not sure how you are defining "strong".

 

[jcdenton08]

I'm sorry, but I don't follow your argument.
Or probably just I'm not sure how you are defining "strong".

I’m talking strong in being a united front and of quality in terms of vetted candidates, shifting out unpopular and shit politicians.