[Politics] Tory meltdown finally arrived [was: incoming]...

[rogersix]

I suspect it could be argued that he didn't 'intentionally' lie because he does it so often that he believes his own shit.

I am struggling with the idea that it is important if he did it intentionally or not. He did it. He either lied or he is incompetent. The result is the same.

Smacks of a broken system to me.

the system may well be broken, as bungle has been tinkering with the ministerial code

 

[Thunder Bolt]

As far as I can work out it's whether he 'intentionally' misled parliament. He seems to be tangling himself up in knots by saying they were work parties but the basics of it are, when he said in the HOC 'no guidance was broken', did he have just cause to believe what he was saying was true or was he talking a load of crap & is trying to get his way out of it?

Edited to add, there is a source for this meme.

Boris Johnson branded ‘most accomplished liar in public life’ by former cabinet colleague

Blistering assault on prime minister’s character by former leadership rival Rory Stewart

www.independent.co.uk

 

[nicko31]

Telegraph remoaners just can't help themselves...

The cult of Boris Johnson – and his Brexit dream – are imploding

As a Tory rebellion on Windsor Framework fails to arrive, Brexit’s poster boy struggles to take back control of his political future

www.telegraph.co.uk

 

[sparkie]

I think it’s just whether he deliberately mislead the house. And the consequences of that aren’t really very dire.

**** should be in prison.

If he'd just held his hand up on Day 1 and said "oops, sorry, lessons learned" he'd have been able to bumble and buffoon his way through any calls to resign and this inquiry about misleading the house wouldn't even be happening.

Lol.

 

[nicko31]

Sunak paying 22% tax on his 5m income.

It is good to see a Prime Minister who has a clear and focused understanding of the laws in order to keep as much as his income as possible.

Pity he wasn't so closely across the lock down rules where people's lives were at risk, he could have told Boris that what they were doing was wrong.

Great time to release his tax returns.

But doesn't Keir Starmer own a field with donkey on it that could be worth £10m if it got planning permission? They're all the same...

 

[vegster]

And him losing his temper tells us all we need to know. Flustered, floundering and completely out of his depth. Trying to out manoeuvre the panel, all of whom have far superior intellect to him, failing and losing his temper.

Marvellous scenes.

However, hold your nose and have a look at the front page of the Daily Mail and it seems they saw something entirely different ! Boris ran rings around them apparently.

For me, you are correct, none of his usual tricks, bluster and stunts worked, he definitely lost his rag once or twice too.

I can't wait to be rid of the lying sleazeball, he's polluted and corrupted our country for long enough.

 

[nicko31]

However, hold your nose and have a look at the front page of the Daily Mail and it seems they saw something entirely different ! Boris ran rings around them apparently.

For me, you are correct, none of his usual tricks, bluster and stunts worked, he definitely lost his rag once or twice too.

I can't wait to be rid of the lying sleazeball, he's polluted and corrupted our country for long enough.

There a three forms of punishment that could happen, apology, suspension from the house for 10 days or suspension for more than 10 days. Only the latter we flush away the turd once and for all most like leading to a bye election.

The latter needs to happen to send a signal we any other dishonest actors planning tribute acts. We will be feeling the effect of long Johnson for a while yet. So much damage

 

[Hugo Rune]

The BBC’s Chris Mason thinks the Johnson outcome will be announced late Spring or early Summer. MPs will then get a vote on any possible suspension.

Whether they find that he intentionally misled or recklessly misled, I’m sure that the committee will conclude that they need to be seen as punishing him properly. I’m hopeful he’d be kicked out of Parliament for the first offence or given the 10 day suspension for the second. The petition for a by election from his constituents should take a matter of minutes to reach the 10% threshold. Then it’s popcorn time.

 

[The Clamp]

If he'd just held his hand up on Day 1 and said "oops, sorry, lessons learned" he'd have been able to bumble and buffoon his way through any calls to resign and this inquiry about misleading the house wouldn't even be happening.

Lol.

Compulsive liar. Narcissist personality disorder. It’s a mental health illness. He is incapable of admitting to anything that makes him appear less than superior to everyone else.

 

[nicko31]

Compulsive liar. Narcissist personality disorder. It’s a mental health illness. He is incapable of admitting to anything that makes him appear less than superior to everyone else.

He has a disorder, but essentially he ignored the rules he set because he fundamentally disagreed with them.

Its exceptionalism and these rules inside Downing Street need not apply to him. He was having leaving drinks after acrimonious departures of SPADS while the public were locked out of hospitals while loved ones suffocated to death in hospitals.

 

[Thunder Bolt]

Don’t drink alcohol folks.

 

[Hugo Rune]

He has a disorder, but essentially he ignored the rules he set because he fundamentally disagreed with them.

Its exceptionalism and these rules inside Downing Street need not apply to him. He was having leaving drinks after acrimonious departures of SPADS while the public were locked out of hospitals while loved ones suffocated to death in hospitals.

Yes. He didn’t state it as such but his position is clearly that he didn’t think rules were broken because he didn’t think they applied to him. Morale at number 10 was apparently dipping. What else should a PM do other than PARTY?

It’s so sad that there are cretins in this country who buy into, consume and breathe his shit.

 

[Perfidious Albion]

Political back stabbing stitch up if ever there was one

 

[vegster]

Political back stabbing stitch up if ever there was one

Morning, Nadine.

 

[judewri]

Morning, Nadine.

"Morning nadine " brilliant

 

[A1X]

 

[DavidinSouthampton]

They didn't seem to lay a glove on him from what I saw. I reckon he'll get away with his lies.

I hope you’re wrong, but fear you might be right.
But if he does get away with it, surely he has proved himself so stupid that he is finished anyway.
If you want to check whether something is illegal, why check with your Director of Communications when there are lawyers around.
How can you be so dogmatic and dramatic about the need for discipline and sticking to the rules for everyone else, when you are gaily flouting the rules yourself.
He introduces the concept of mitigation, and considers it necessary for staff morale and so on to have leaving dos and say thank you to people when hospitals and ALL their staff were being stretched beyond belief…….. and wouldn’t have dared to participate in any such nonsense.

And a berk like Rees-Mogg can make childish comments about marsupials, depicting it as a kangaroo court.
And a DIMwit like Nadine Dorries can twitter that she can’t see how anybody could not exonerate him completely after that performance. These are the people who were running the country during very difficult times.

 

[Thunder Bolt]

I hope you’re wrong, but fear you might be right.
But if he does get away with it, surely he has proved himself so stupid that he is finished anyway.
If you want to check whether something is illegal, why check with your Director of Communications when there are lawyers around.
How can you be so dogmatic and dramatic about the need for discipline and sticking to the rules for everyone else, when you are gaily flouting the rules yourself.
He introduces the concept of mitigation, and considers it necessary for staff morale and so on to have leaving dos and say thank you to people when hospitals and ALL their staff were being stretched beyond belief…….. and wouldn’t have dared to participate in any such nonsense.

And a berk like Rees-Mogg can make childish comments about marsupials, depicting it as a kangaroo court.
And a DIMwit like Nadine Dorries can twitter that she can’t see how anybody could not exonerate him completely after that performance. These are the people who were running the country during very difficult times.

To me, the staff morale excuse is the lowest excuse of them all.
As we have read, people committed suicide during lockdown through lack of contact, people died alone, families couldn't hold full funeral services and a woman was arrested for removing her own mother from a care home because they were both suffering from loneliness. (she was de-arrested later)


Morale, my foot!

 

[Berty23]

It is simply impossible for both of these statements to be true, isn’t it?

1) he did not intentionally mislead Parliament because he did not understand the guidance he was telling everyone else about
2) he is an intelligent man who is capable of making big decisions to lead the country.


If he is so thick that he did not know that guidance was being broken I would not let him loose on a paper round, let alone give him the nuclear codes. Ffs.

It might be the worst thing for the tory party if he did get through this because he will hang around looking for his next shot at power. The tiny rebellion yesterday from the boris fan maniacs on the n.Ireland deal is surely going to empower sunak to take him and the rest of that mob on. Dorries, Patel, JRM, Truss, gullis etc.

 

[Machiavelli]

Is this investigation just about if he lied to the house?

Are there any other consequences coming his way for his behaviour around these parties?

The fact that he is still in parliament and facing these questions is incredible to me. Let alone the fact that he may end up keeping his job and if it is not too dramatic, his liberty.

Does his defence boil down to he didn't realise he was breaking the rules? No one told him?

I would suggest that everyone tries this with their next speeding ticket.

No, he's already admitted that he misinformed the House.
It's whether he:
-- inadvertently
-- recklessly, or
-- deliberately/intentionally
misled the House. The third option will have serious consequences. It's also very, very difficult to prove, especially without an admission from the parliamentarian under investigation. The committee yesterday were going after reckless, and it looks as though they've amassed a sufficient case to charge him with that, but we'll only find out when their report is released in a month or two.
Really like your speeding ticket analogy, which just about sums it up. The bloke has forged an entire career on bending things, evading issues, making statements that he backs away from ("I'll die in a ditch ..."), and so on.
He's famously dreadful at detail, and yesterday was a wonderful occasion where he was subject to sustained scrutiny wriggling for his political future. Unfortunately and, even despite the fact that the public have broadly cottoned on to the fact that he's a liar, he's still popular.