[Politics] Tory meltdown finally arrived [was: incoming]...

[Kinky Gerbil]

Just a thought, but I wonder, having made them public, they are now inadmissible as evidence at the enquiry?

Maybe she was worried it would just all be overlooked and brushed under the carpet.

According the Fraser Nelson they spent weeks at the telegraph to go through the files, is an "independent" enquiry going to go into such detail?

The importance of exposing Matt Hancock's WhatsApp messages

For a while now, I’ve been buried deep in a vault in the Daily Telegraph going through the Matt Hancock files.

www.spectator.co.uk

 

[Thunder Bolt]

Maybe she was worried it would just all be overlooked and brushed under the carpet.

According the Fraser Nelson they spent weeks at the telegraph to go through the files, is an "independent" enquiry going to go into such detail?

The importance of exposing Matt Hancock's WhatsApp messages

For a while now, I’ve been buried deep in a vault in the Daily Telegraph going through the Matt Hancock files.

www.spectator.co.uk

I doubt Oakshott would be worried about other people. If it makes money, she'll do it.

 

[Kinky Gerbil]

I doubt Oakshott would be worried about other people. If it makes money, she'll do it.

Don't think you can look at the source here, just the content.

 

[vegster]

There's more recent sources as well, all of them put Guardian in the mid-left and not extreme left. The problem is one of perception: The Guardian is probably the most left-leaning of the "mainstream" sources that have a left bias. That doesn't make them extreme left, though.

The Grauniad is incredibly "soft " left wing and only really stand out as Left Leaning as they are often only one of a couple that would publish the news of an event detrimental to Tory politics or government....manys the time a huge government scandal broke that simply was not covered by the likes of The Times, Mail and Express...they simply chose to do a ridiculous non story and stick their heads in the sand until the facts it cannot report go away.

When the BBC refuses to report on some issues or acts " impartially " and does the same it then makes the Grauniad look like a left wing outlier.... But I don't think I've ever seen them splash any headline that is equivalent to some of the shocking and horrifying headlines posted by the Mail regularly.

 

[Thunder Bolt]

Don't think you can look at the source here, just the content.

I wouldn't trust her or her boyfriend exactly the same as any politician.
As has been said, previously, she is a nasty piece of work.

 

[Kinky Gerbil]

I wouldn't trust her or her boyfriend exactly the same as any politician.
As has been said, previously, she is a nasty piece of work.

Are you saying these messages are fake?

You can not trust someone, yet trust what they have supplied

 

[Audax]

The Grauniad is incredibly "soft " left wing and only really stand out as Left Leaning as they are often only one of a couple that would publish the news of an event detrimental to Tory politics or government....manys the time a huge government scandal broke that simply was not covered by the likes of The Times, Mail and Express...they simply chose to do a ridiculous non story and stick their heads in the sand until the facts it cannot report go away.

When the BBC refuses to report on some issues or acts " impartially " and does the same it then makes the Grauniad look like a left wing outlier.... But I don't think I've ever seen them splash any headline that is equivalent to some of the shocking and horrifying headlines posted by the Mail regularly.

Pretty much the point I was trying to make - I was responding to someone who described them as "extreme" and lumped them in with the Daily Mail (the most extreme right wing mainstream UK outlet). They're far from it. Certainly their news content is soft-left. They do play host to some hard left content, though, via the Opinion section (Owen Jones, for example), and that'll be why they're seen as more mid-left by people who attempt to classify. But as I mentioned in an earlier post, those hard left contributors are easy to spot and avoid.

 

[vegster]

Pretty much the point I was trying to make - I was responding to someone who described them as "extreme" and lumped them in with the Daily Mail (the most extreme right wing mainstream UK outlet). They're far from it. Certainly their news content is soft-left. They do play host to some hard left content, though, via the Opinion section, and that'll be why they're seen as more mid-left by people who attempt to classify. But as I mentioned in an earlier post, those hard left contributors are easy to spot and avoid.

I used to work with a chap that was right wing, pro Trump, pro Farage, pro Brexit...the whole shebang...I was reading my Guardian in the staff room having lunch and he came in saw me and instantly said " oh god..you're not reading that Left Wing communist rag are you ? "...imagine his surprise when I turned the page and there was an opinion piece from Johnson! ..I gently pointed out the fact that I doubted The Mail would ever do the equivalent...I carried on with my sandwich, my Co worker had the humble pie.

 

[Nobby Cybergoat]

The other point about the Guardian, is that every statement is backed up with linked source material. It immediately and openly details any corrections made to the article and isn't regularly sued or disciplined for spreading sensationalist misinformation. It isn't owned by an offshored billionaire with opaque business interests.

There is no comparison at all to rags like the Daily Mail

 

[WATFORD zero]

There's more recent sources as well, all of them put Guardian in the mid-left and not extreme left. The problem is one of perception: The Guardian is probably the most left-leaning of the "mainstream" sources that have a left bias. That doesn't make them extreme left, though.

I think what you say is what is generally acknowledged in British political terms, however isn't it all just relative to the individual ?

If @jcdenton08 is saying that he finds the Guardian and the Daily Mail equally extreme, isn't he just saying that his views are at the midpoint between the two

Back to the main subject I don't think I have seen a couple deserve each other more than Hancock and Oakshott since ............. Johnson and Cummings

 

[beorhthelm]

Don't think you can look at the source here, just the content.

source seems important. might be embelished, as the original source is Hancock himself, providing access to the messages. pretty sure this area was covered in a court case too, who should have had access to the same messages. did they appear there and being re-heated or didnt in which case deeper issues.

 

[Guinness Boy]

There is no comparison at all to rags like the Daily Mail

Of course not, but it neatly diverted some of the conversation away from those awful Tories tearing each other apart again.

 

[beorhthelm]

The other point about the Guardian, is that every statement is backed up with linked source material. It immediately and openly details any corrections made to the article and isn't regularly sued or disciplined for spreading sensationalist misinformation. It isn't owned by an offshored billionaire with opaque business interests.

There is no comparison at all to rags like the Daily Mail

certainly do not and they have a very sus habit of putting references to their own earlier articles - so you think theres a source. comparing to the Mail is daft but so is casting them as pure form of journalism.

 

[JBizzle]

Ultimately, does it really matter? I mean, yes, clearly it does in a moral and public interest sense, but it won't change anything will it? It's impossible for any Tory to back down from their support of their team, as it's impossible for the opposite to give him an easy ride.

For the last 6 years we have been utterly drowned in Tory misdemeanours, scandals, profiteering and outright law-breaking. All that ends up happening is that they shuffle the pack and a new group of charlatans get rotated into the firing line in the hope that by the time the next election comes around, they've shed their skin enough times that they've conned people into thinking it's an entirely new, reformed snake on which to pin their blue rosette.

 

[Guinness Boy]

Back to the main subject I don't think I have seen a couple deserve each other more than Hancock and Oakshott since ............. Johnson and Cummings

I've pretty much given up on working out who is on what team, if they are on a team at all.

From what I can see Hancock was on Team Boris but is now very much on Team Matt Hancock. Oakshott has always been on Team Oakshott and Team Anti Lockdown but could also be on Team Rishi in that she's briefing against Team Boris, albeit that electorally, that risks damaging Team Rishi.

On a wider scale Nadine's keeping her drunken, half witted blatherings firmly on message for Team Boris but most seem to be backing slowly away from that particular shit-show. Baker has left Team ERG to merge Team Baker with Team Rishi while Team Truss appear to have disappeared back to obscurity for fear that Jeremy Hunt will spit roast team mascot Kwasi Kwarteng. Rees-Mogg, a man who has almost got away with anyone noticing at all that he got a Covid test privately couriered to him during a test shortage, is most definitely NOT Team Rishi and seems to be on the verge of revolting, revolting being, of course, what many of them think of David Cameron.

Dom, meanwhile, is cackling in his lair somewhere.

What an awful bunch of bastards.

 

[Thunder Bolt]

Are you saying these messages are fake?

You can not trust someone, yet trust what they have supplied

Matt Hancock says they have been doctored, but also that she signed an NDA.
It's all very murky.

 

[Thunder Bolt]

I've pretty much given up on working out who is on what team, if they are on a team at all.

From what I can see Hancock was on Team Boris but is now very much on Team Matt Hancock. Oakshott has always been on Team Oakshott and Team Anti Lockdown but could also be on Team Rishi in that she's briefing against Team Boris, albeit that electorally, that risks damaging Team Rishi.

On a wider scale Nadine's keeping her drunken, half witted blatherings firmly on message for Team Boris but most seem to be backing slowly away from that particular shit-show. Baker has left Team ERG to merge Team Baker with Team Rishi while Team Truss appear to have disappeared back to obscurity for fear that Jeremy Hunt will spit roast team mascot Kwasi Kwarteng. Rees-Mogg, a man who has almost got away with anyone noticing at all that he got a Covid test privately couriered to him during a test shortage, is most definitely NOT Team Rishi and seems to be on the verge of revolting, revolting being, of course, what many of them think of David Cameron.

Dom, meanwhile, is cackling in his lair somewhere.

What an awful bunch of bastards.

That just about sums it up.

 

[Thunder Bolt]

I used to work with a chap that was right wing, pro Trump, pro Farage, pro Brexit...the whole shebang...I was reading my Guardian in the staff room having lunch and he came in saw me and instantly said " oh god..you're not reading that Left Wing communist rag are you ? "...imagine his surprise when I turned the page and there was an opinion piece from Johnson! ..I gently pointed out the fact that I doubted The Mail would ever do the equivalent...I carried on with my sandwich, my Co worker had the humble pie.

Graham Le Saux was accused of being gay because he read the Guardian.

Graeme Le Saux’s battle against homophobic abuse and why the door is opening for gay players to come out in football

A married heterosexual, Graeme Le Saux endured years of abuse from fellow players and fans. But is the tide turning for gay players to finally come out?

thesefootballtimes.co

 

[Bodian]

Matt Hancock says they have been doctored, but also that she signed an NDA.
It's all very murky.

He can presumably very easily prove they have been doctored by releasing the originals. If he doesn't do that, we can pretty much assume that either they haven't been doctored - or the originals reveal some other shite he's been up to that he doesn't want us to know about.

 

[Audax]

I think what you say is what is generally acknowledged in British political terms, however isn't it all just relative to the individual ?

If @jcdenton08 is saying that he finds the Guardian and the Daily Mail equally extreme, isn't he just saying that his views are at the midpoint between the two

Back to the main subject I don't think I have seen a couple deserve each other more than Hancock and Oakshott since ............. Johnson and Cummings

Interestingly enough, that's something the (slightly dated) YouGov article I linked explored. They asked the right questions to be able to analyse not just what society in general thinks of each outlet, but also what groupings with certain political outlooks think of each outlet. Unsurprisingly, the further right-wing someone was the more likely they were to describe the Guardian as "extreme left".

Anyway, back to your point: that might be the case for that particular individual, but IMO it's not about individual perceptions but overall societal perception and objective assessment against defined criteria. Both of those approaches indicate that the Guardian is not even close to being extreme left.

For starters, an extreme left outlet wouldn't be reporting on the Oakeshott leak the way the Guardian has. An extreme left outlet would have glossed over or completely ignored the counter-claims made by Hancock today while bigging up the "Hancock bad" arguments far more.