[Politics] Tory meltdown finally arrived [was: incoming]...

[clapham_gull]

Which will be the 4th Prime Minister in 6 years. It’s not exactly stable is it?

They are literally the Watford FC of the political world.

But hey ho, it reinforces the self entitlement of their members with their special private vote to elect the PM.

What a mess and an affront to democracy there are, assisted by a useless opposition.

However, I'm not sure next election it matters quite what the opposition is.

 

[Stato]

The Guardian's Polly Toynbee was tonight's one representative of the majority of the electorate who voted against the tories on Newsnight. Obviously up against two tories who shouted her down every time she tried to say anything. I remember when these Newsnight panels of commentators were always one blue, one red, one yellow. It is now always at least two blue, on occasion it has been three. Toynbee's segment followed interviews with two tories, same as yesterday when Kirsty Wark had a standard political interview with the usual two tories, before going off at Thangam Debbonaire like she'd just flobbed in her pint. Monday saw the usual two tory MPs and, to balance that, an interview with someone from the left... Conservative lord and former minister in Thatcher & Major governments Kenneth Clarke.

Thangam has for the second week running so far been the only politician in a studio segment who is not a member of the Conservative Party. There have been eight politicians in the studio. Ignoring the right wing bias on non politician commentators, that's the party that 29.36% of the electorate voted for getting 87.5% of the air time. I'm not so much moaning about the lack of balance, more documenting it, because at the same time it is happening the lie that the BBC leans to the left will continue to be pedaled. I know some will argue that this is a temporary aberration because of the leadership contest. It isn't. Its been happening for such a long time, that I've finally become angered enough to take the ridiculous step of measuring the stats.

 

[Gwylan]

Sunak has promised the same.

He most certainly hasn't, nor as far as I'm aware has Truss. All the candidates (bar Sunak) have promised tax cuts while being completely vague about what's going to finance this largesse. Zahawi was the exception here with his 20% across the board.

Sunak is totally different. He talks about the long term aim of tax cuts but not in the near future and while he talks vaguely about reducing public spending, there are few firm commitments. Braverman has talked about cutting the education budget by reducing the staffing numbers - I'm not sure that's going to be a massive vote winner.

The candidates do need to come clean about what they'd cut. The three big challenges of Brexit, Covid and Ukraine will all need additional spending; the government has already promised a 10% rise for pensioners, has introduced longer prison sentences and may need to loosen the purse strings to get courts open and install security staff at airports to get planes flying.

Sunak appears to be the only one operating in the real world and not on planet Zog - it will be interesting to see whether the other candidates wake up or not.

 

[Gwylan]

Websites, videos, Boris driving a bulldozer through a wall, portraits from below the chin, folded arms in front of a Union Jack (even if it is the wrong way round Penny), it's all bollox. All of it.

Gone is the appreciation of a strong performance at the despatch box. Cameron was a master at it. So was Churchill. Imagine - changing a parliament of minds - with the power of your spoken word.
We are losing those skills.

Hmm.... I think parliamentary performance has been irrelevant for some time. The best parliamentary speakers in my lifetime have been Michael Foot, Enoch Powell and Tony Benn - all cabinet ministers but none held one of the great offices of state

 

[clapham_gull]

The Guardian's Polly Toynbee was tonight's one representative of the majority of the electorate who voted against the tories on Newsnight.

That will be Polly lives in a gated community Toynbee.

I think we are politically aligned, but unfortunately she represents the I'm alright Jack wealthy intelligentsia of Blair's New Labour.

 

[Stato]

That will be Polly lives in a gated community Toynbee.

I think we are politically aligned, but unfortunately she represents the I'm alright Jack wealthy intelligentsia of Blair's New Labour.

SDP wasn't she. However, given the current dearth of liberal voices on Newsnight, she'll do. Alan Bennett's response when someone asked him whether he was gay or straight comes to mind:

"That's a bit like asking a man crawling across the Sahara whether he would prefer Perrier or Malvern water."

 

[Harry Wilson's tackle]

Hmm.... I think parliamentary performance has been irrelevant for some time. The best parliamentary speakers in my lifetime have been Michael Foot, Enoch Powell and Tony Benn - all cabinet ministers but none held one of the great offices of state

Postmaster General? That was a hell of a white heat of technology gig....

 

[Harry Wilson's tackle]

The Guardian's Polly Toynbee was tonight's one representative of the majority of the electorate who voted against the tories on Newsnight. Obviously up against two tories who shouted her down every time she tried to say anything. I remember when these Newsnight panels of commentators were always one blue, one red, one yellow. It is now always at least two blue, on occasion it has been three. Toynbee's segment followed interviews with two tories, same as yesterday when Kirsty Wark had a standard political interview with the usual two tories, before going off at Thangam Debbonaire like she'd just flobbed in her pint. Monday saw the usual two tory MPs and, to balance that, an interview with someone from the left... Conservative lord and former minister in Thatcher & Major governments Kenneth Clarke.

Thangam has for the second week running so far been the only politician in a studio segment who is not a member of the Conservative Party. There have been eight politicians in the studio. Ignoring the right wing bias on non politician commentators, that's the party that 29.36% of the electorate voted for getting 87.5% of the air time. I'm not so much moaning about the lack of balance, more documenting it, because at the same time it is happening the lie that the BBC leans to the left will continue to be pedaled. I know some will argue that this is a temporary aberration because of the leadership contest. It isn't. Its been happening for such a long time, that I've finally become angered enough to take the ridiculous step of measuring the stats.

This is the beeb, shitting itself about the risk of mad Nad defunding them.

Tony Livsey is giving me the shits on R5 with his anti labour bias, too. Thinly veiled but not even-handed.

But I'll get over it. Tories seem to be toast....

 

[nicko31]

The Guardian's Polly Toynbee was tonight's one representative of the majority of the electorate who voted against the tories on Newsnight. Obviously up against two tories who shouted her down every time she tried to say anything. I remember when these Newsnight panels of commentators were always one blue, one red, one yellow. It is now always at least two blue, on occasion it has been three. Toynbee's segment followed interviews with two tories, same as yesterday when Kirsty Wark had a standard political interview with the usual two tories, before going off at Thangam Debbonaire like she'd just flobbed in her pint. Monday saw the usual two tory MPs and, to balance that, an interview with someone from the left... Conservative lord and former minister in Thatcher & Major governments Kenneth Clarke.

Thangam has for the second week running so far been the only politician in a studio segment who is not a member of the Conservative Party. There have been eight politicians in the studio. Ignoring the right wing bias on non politician commentators, that's the party that 29.36% of the electorate voted for getting 87.5% of the air time. I'm not so much moaning about the lack of balance, more documenting it, because at the same time it is happening the lie that the BBC leans to the left will continue to be pedaled. I know some will argue that this is a temporary aberration because of the leadership contest. It isn't. Its been happening for such a long time, that I've finally become angered enough to take the ridiculous step of measuring the stats.

Right wingers hate the Beeb as its available to everyone at a modest price, they will continue to pedal the myth the Beeb is left wing

The Tories have now infiltrated the Beeb, their strategy of course is to get the left to turn on it and undermine overall public support for it. Murdoch would approve

 

[DataPoint]

Sorry Mr James O'Brien and co - just as you were all celebrating your famous victory - your boy's are going to take one hell of a beating - Sir Keir is going to get his head crushed between Penny's thighs.

Wow! The irony.

 

[nicko31]

Sorry Mr James O'Brien and co - just as you were all celebrating your famous victory - your boy's are going to take one hell of a beating - Sir Keir is going to get his head crushed between Penny's thighs.

Wow! The irony.

If she gets the job it will be a hard landing when you discovers the burning wreck Johnson has left behind...

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=2Ens-MNzQOE

 

[Gwylan]

Postmaster General? That was a hell of a white heat of technology gig....

He was Minister for Technology in Harold Wilson's first government - hell of a gig, given the emphasis that Wilson paid on technology. He was subsequently Industry Secretary and Energy Secretary - significant posts, but he never achieved one of the big four.

 

[Audax]

[...] the Tories use a different system. ( I admit, I don’t know what the system is called, if it’s called anything at all, I just know it’s not FPTP)

It's the world's most complicated version of AV (well, the MP voting part of it is). They really could have had it all done and dusted with a final two declared yesterday. Instead of vote, discard those with less than 30, then vote again, discard lowest, vote, discard, etc etc ... they could instead have simply had a single ballot paper and got MPs to number the candidates in their order of preference. They could then use that single ballot paper to handle all of the eliminations.

It really is a self-indulgent system they've cooked up.

And you're dead right: it highlights the hypocrisy of them insisting on FPTP for general elections and then not using it themselves for electing their own leader.

 

[Machiavelli]

Which will be the 4th Prime Minister in 6 years. It’s not exactly stable is it?

Strong though unfortunately, far, far too strong.

 

[Machiavelli]

He most certainly hasn't, nor as far as I'm aware has Truss. All the candidates (bar Sunak) have promised tax cuts while being completely vague about what's going to finance this largesse. Zahawi was the exception here with his 20% across the board.

Sunak is totally different. He talks about the long term aim of tax cuts but not in the near future and while he talks vaguely about reducing public spending, there are few firm commitments. Braverman has talked about cutting the education budget by reducing the staffing numbers - I'm not sure that's going to be a massive vote winner.

The candidates do need to come clean about what they'd cut. The three big challenges of Brexit, Covid and Ukraine will all need additional spending; the government has already promised a 10% rise for pensioners, has introduced longer prison sentences and may need to loosen the purse strings to get courts open and install security staff at airports to get planes flying.

Sunak appears to be the only one operating in the real world and not on planet Zog - it will be interesting to see whether the other candidates wake up or not.

Agreed on this and, to add, the new way that readyforrishi puts this is he's about 'winning elections to cut taxes, not cutting taxes to win elections'. Public services are on their knees only propped up by the service of those that perform the labour, the notion that more can be cut is more for the birds nonsense that circulates widely.
I'd also offer that Badenoch also has been honest in saying that if you cut taxes, you need to decrease what the state does, which has at least an orientation of honesty, which would be enhanced if she spelled out what services she'd withdraw from the state.

 

[nicko31]

Rats in a sack....

Frost putting the knife in to Mordaunt

https://twitter.com/BestForBritain/status/1547492230209970177

 

[Hugo Rune]

Rats in a sack....

Frost putting the knife in to Mordaunt

https://twitter.com/BestForBritain/status/1547492230209970177

From a Labour perspective, she offers the greatest challenge at the next election in my opinion.

 

[Machiavelli]

except it was the same for the Labour party leader election wasnt it? constant coverage, programmes dedicated to it. there isnt really a "balance" to be had with in the scope of a party leadership contest.

To be fair, if the main topic is the Tory leadership race, why would you have as many Labour MP's giving an opinion as Tories? It only takes one to mention how although any candidate would all be an improvement on Boris, most, if not all the candidates were telling us how great he was just a couple of weeks ago.
Their squabbling over which unsuitable person they back is better for Labour than Tories, it highlights the paucity of quality politicians in their ranks.

I'm just making two points, the first of which has been made better, and with data, by [MENTION=22849]Stato[/MENTION]:
1, the beeb have been cowered by the Tories, and the notion of balance -- irrespective of whether there's a leadership election, which one party seems to have quite a few of -- is for the birds
2, the beeb is also cowered by the right-wing press which increasingly drives the news agenda (and the beeb just fits into it snugly), and it is the combination of their driving of the news agenda alongside the widespread view that there is a 'natural party of government' which allows them additional air time (ie, when in government, because they're in government, they warrant extra air time, more of their MPs taking up the news agenda, whereas when in opposition, for the sake of 'balance', they'd warrant either similar air time as Labour or, because Labour have in-built advantages because they're in government, they deserve extra).

 

[Lenny Rider]

Apologies if fixtures.

But you would question given this information which was widely known how did the Conservative Party ever elect him as leader?

https://youtu.be/0p-Ta83V7iw

 

[Thunder Bolt]

Apologies if fixtures.

But you would question given this information which was widely known how did the Conservative Party ever elect him as leader?

https://youtu.be/0p-Ta83V7iw

The donors decided. Nadine Dorries confirmed it.