[Politics] Tory meltdown finally arrived [was: incoming]...

[TomandJerry]

A court support service that helps thousands of people who cannot afford a lawyer is under threat after having its government funding pulled, the Guardian has learned.

It comes as the number of people struggling to get justice without a lawyer has soared following swingeing cuts to legal aid in 2013.

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[beorhthelm]

what was the result?

Scotrail cut loads of services, brought in a revised timetable still going. they'll be joining the fun with these RMT strikes this week too.

 

[Thunder Bolt]

A court support service that helps thousands of people who cannot afford a lawyer is under threat after having its government funding pulled, the Guardian has learned.

It comes as the number of people struggling to get justice without a lawyer has soared following swingeing cuts to legal aid in 2013.

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Yet even more cuts in the Justice system. It’s already been squeezed until squeaking and is just about collapsing.

 

[Thunder Bolt]

But you (like others) are only concentrating on the pension comment and not the solution I proposed and replayed again to Harry.

If you were to give up a right to strike for a guaranteed Index Linked pay rise every year and a performance related bonus is that something you'd consider?

Unfortunately, in an aging population, pensions are going to have to take a hit.

You didn’t pick up on the ageing workers who would be slung out before they receive their pensions because they’re burned out or physically unfit. How many people can run upstairs with full BA kit at 60? Very few.
Leaving early through ill health means less pension and more reliance on the state.
As someone else pointed out many years of shift work can take its toll on health. A good friend of mine was lucky to retire at 60 because as a nurse her back only just held out. She’d been off a couple of times before that. Nurses are now expected to work to 66.

As for inconveniencing people, lots work from home now, and many people who run small businesses tend to work fairly close to home.

Safety is an issue. Less staff means shortcuts. I’d rather trains are run safely. One stupid minister reckoned he could get agency staff in!!

 

[Harry Wilson's tackle]

It's not "buried in the comments". It's a genuine attempt at a solution.

When nurses, teachers and emergency service staff cannot get into work because there are no trains and they can't afford to fill their car up, the only people the RMT are hurting is the general public. They should be taking the moral high ground, there's absolutely no chance that Boris et al will meet their demands when they are directly playing into the Tories' electoral hands.

In all of the comments above (not just yours) it is buried. I agree - it is the best possible solution.

I also agree the unions are playing into Johnson's hands.

But I disagree that some public sector workers have an undeserved golden pensions ticket. Nor do I agree that, when there is no solution left, in the absence of any arrangements as per the best possible solution (above) they just 'take the moral high ground'. That is also known as 'another victory for Johnson'. What do you expect them to do? A junior doctor who worked with me voted with his feet and emigrated, not so much over pay, but over the way that HMG (and it was 'call me Dave' at the time) were using duty and guilt to bully the young hospital medics into accepting whatever they fancied. Yes I know that hard working junior doctors are not the same a overweight coke-sniffing tube drivers but.....actually they are exactly the same: pawns in a game of squeeze the public sector till it collapses and the nation tumbles into private arrangements while shaking their tiny fist at the selfish public workers.

(I suspect we are violently agreeing here, again, by the way )

 

[drew]

So....

- They didn't go on strike
- They won
- It was really a safety issue, rather than a payment issue.

I know a train driver who retired earlier than most private sector workers, has cheap travel for life and very little change to lifestyle. Meanwhile, most people in the private sector or running small businesses have almost no pension at all. And guess who can't go to work or run their business when the railway is on strike?

I know plenty of people that worked in the city and are now retired with little or no change to their lifestyles, possible even better.

Not sure why everyone keeps referring to the train drivers as they are members of ASLEF and not the RMT!!!

As for a solution whereby critical services abandon the right to strike in return for guaranteed pay rises that will only work if you have a government that will honour such agreements. Think the tories have previously ignored Pay Review Board recommendations for the NHS (but I suspect they've never failed to vote through pay reviews for MPs!!).

 

[Machiavelli]

My tuppence worth to this debate is that public sector -- and related -- workers have now had 12 years worth of real-terms pay cuts. Where I work, this amounts to somewhere between 20 and 25% pay cut over the duration. The pay 'offer' that we're due to get is 3% -- which many will think constitutes a pay-rise, that's how financially illiterate and innumerate we've now become -- which will amount to a further +5% real terms pay cut.
Great swathes of workers, especially public sector workers, are in a similar boat. Yet when there's a determination to do something about it, it's dismissed as class war or a return to the 70s. Warren Buffett did say, "there's a class war going on, and my class is winning".

 

[Baldseagull]

View attachment 148989
all over twitter

The mysterious vanishing article, pulled from later printed editions of the paper, but at whose request?

 

[Acker79]

The reason it's all over Twitter isn't because it's news - this clearly isn't news to anyone who has a pulse for the last 5 years.

It's news because depiffel' people got the story pulled post production.
Unfortunately for the PM a few copies had already left the building.

Yup. It was briefly quoted in an article on MSN, but that has now disappeared.


[tweet]1538505386726236160[/tweet]

 

[franks brother]

 

[The Clamp]

Well, did anyone actually think she was with him for his good looks and charm?

 

[One Teddy Maybank]

as soon as this incompetent shower is out it's time to nationalize the railways

Because they were so much better before?

Sorry but this is like a Brighton player improving when he’s not playing…… my recollection is that British Rail was a shitshow at the best of times, rarely on time, terrible carriages, unreliable, cancellations - kind of the same as it is now, (though the carriages are better IMO).

 

[One Teddy Maybank]

But you (like others) are only concentrating on the pension comment and not the solution I proposed and replayed again to Harry.

If you were to give up a right to strike for a guaranteed Index Linked pay rise every year and a performance related bonus is that something you'd consider?

Unfortunately, in an aging population, pensions are going to have to take a hit.

Depends what it is…. But if as you suggest pensions will be hit, then it would need to be significant, as why would anyone stay?
All that will happen is more privatisation as where is the incentive to stay?

 

[Guinness Boy]

(I suspect we are violently agreeing here, again, by the way )

To an extent, we absolutely are.

Johnson is on the ropes and probably gone within six months. The Tories will have a choice between one of his cabinet, guilty by association, or to take a tack more to the centre. In the latter, more likely, scenario it's better deals all round for ALL the British public.

I'm sure there are levers the RMT can pull without national strike. Overtime bans, sudden bouts of "Covid", steering Sir Keir down their path by, well, the old fashioned art of sitting down and talking, getting the message that Boris is a fat oaf, convicted and fined even more out there.

Now the Tories can say "see - if you don't vote for us you get the Unions".

It's exactly what Thatcher did. She was utterly useless in her first term and heading for defeat until she flew the Union flag over The Falklands and started to remind people about the winter of discontent under Labour. For today, swap in Ukraine and a national rail strike. And Labour? They opposed her with Foot

 

[vegster]

Yet even more cuts in the Justice system. It’s already been squeezed until squeaking and is just about collapsing.

Its the same everywhere TB, everywhere you look Public Services are suffering either by a lack of investment or deliberate cuts. There's not enough Police, there's not enough Legal Aid, there's not enough prison cells, not enough prison officers. Then look at the NHS and its a shortage/ retention crisis of GP's, Nurses, Mental health services, Midwives, A&E capacity. Then you look at education, Schools falling down, experienced teachers being forced out by funding cuts, SEN underfunded, Specialist Reading and Mathematics interventions cut... I've missed out loads of others ... its a bit like "What did the Government used to do for us ? " a la Monty Python. Its the result of a combination of privatisation, the decline of Union rights and membership, changes in employment law and the cut in the central government grant to councils, and trying to save cash and hope nothing bad turns up... plenty more reasons left that I have missed out too but nearly all of them hinge on trying to muddle through by trying to save or make a bit of money and hoping people cope/muddle through/ don't notice.

 

[Harry Wilson's tackle]

Yet even more cuts in the Justice system. It’s already been squeezed until squeaking and is just about collapsing.

The sad thing is there is nothing we can do about this*

He has discovered that he still has popularity and support
He has discovered that all you need to be to deflect damning criticism is shameless
He does whatever he wants and middle England ignores the 'lefty' criticism
And if it ever looks like he may come a cropper, he changes the rules. 'Should' instead of 'must'....
Of course the likes of RMT are playing into his hands.
If I were the TUC I would employ some smart people, latterday Mandleson and Campbell, to sort out my PR
If I had any traction in labour I'd get Campbell back.
But unfortunately this is panning out like the penultimate moments of Lord of the Flies, with Johnson and his gang nothing better than Jack and his tribe, and the struggling workers of the nation soon to become like Simon and Piggy.

*Until the general election. Courage, and a clear eye, please people.

 

[Harry Wilson's tackle]

Its the same everywhere TB, everywhere you look Public Services are suffering either by a lack of investment or deliberate cuts. There's not enough Police, there's not enough Legal Aid, there's not enough prison cells, not enough prison officers. Then look at the NHS and its a shortage/ retention crisis of GP's, Nurses, Mental health services, Midwives, A&E capacity. Then you look at education, Schools falling down, experienced teachers being forced out by funding cuts, SEN underfunded, Specialist Reading and Mathematics interventions cut... I've missed out loads of others ... its a bit like "What did the Government used to do for us ? " a la Monty Python. Its the result of a combination of privatisation, the decline of Union rights and membership, changes in employment law and the cut in the central government grant to councils, and trying to save cash and hope nothing bad turns up... plenty more reasons left that I have missed out too but nearly all of them hinge on trying to muddle through by trying to save or make a bit of money and hoping people cope/muddle through/ don't notice.

No mate. It is a deliberate strategy of neglect and confrontation set to trigger a reaction that is dismissed 'at large' as left wing militancy. Nobody likes a left wing militant. The idea is to destroy the mighty state so that private enterprise can step in, allowing market forces to banish socialism forever. A revolution in plain sight.

 

[clapham_gull]

If the latest story isn't true, simply deny it.

When the bluster and diversion run out I guess you call in the lawyers.

There have been other reports of newspaper stories shut down. I can think of one other.

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[rogersix]

Because they were so much better before?

Sorry but this is like a Brighton player improving when he’s not playing…… my recollection is that British Rail was a shitshow at the best of times, rarely on time, terrible carriages, unreliable, cancellations - kind of the same as it is now, (though the carriages are better IMO).

they did take on thousands of apprentices each year, and i believe cost the taxpayer less

 

[vegster]

No mate. It is a deliberate strategy of neglect and confrontation set to trigger a reaction that is dismissed 'at large' as left wing militancy. Nobody likes a left wing militant. The idea is to destroy the mighty state so that private enterprise can step in, allowing market forces to banish socialism forever. A revolution in plain sight.

That's an extreme view Harry, I can't believe that this (or the last ) Tory government had the brains and the ability to carry this out... I'd like to think so at least.