[Albion] Tony Blooms vision for the club (aka Olive Branch II)

[FamilyGuy]

I also agree with Acker79 (above) that they style of play can be frustrating rather than entertaining. Specifically, it all slows down near the penalty area instead of speeding up. Solly March sums this up. As soon as he is confronted by an opponent you can see his two minds and almost invariably he will check back and play a safe pass instead of trying to go past his man. Arsenal early in the second half last night showed what purposeful attacking can look like. Quick movement, quick decisions, no messing about. Direct football can be good when it involves running directly towards the opponents' goal rather than taking five minutes and 23 passes to get there, by which time they have 11 men behind the ball.. .

Absolutely this! So much this!

 

[blue-shifted]

I whole heartedly agree with all your points.

Just one revision for me. Sometimes in this brutal money league, some short term transfer/spending pragmatism is required to ensure that that we don’t join the clubs who lost that £105m of broadcasting income from relegation (I know there’s parachute money, but many clubs do not bounce back up).

I’d love TB to bring in a quality striker and LB in January, they might be loanees. If their pay is higher, so be it. I bet Lallana is on great money, so it shouldn’t cause dissent in the camp.

We can't worry about dissent now. GP and the board would just have to manage any grumbles from players only on £60k p/w

We can't be above short term loans any more. We need to do what is necessary to keep us up in the short term. The long term can wait for another day, we do plenty of looking to the horizon.

This will mean paying exorbitant salary for a while, probably on a par with what Villa pay Watkins or Newcastle pay Wilson

 

[Harry Wilson's tackle]

If he were to listen to the boo boys right right now, Tony would fire Graham Potter and install a fire fighter manager to dig us out of trouble. Else what would be the point?

So who would you get then. The just relegated Eddie Howe?
Mark Hughes? And say this new manager keeps us up. We all celebrate. But what next season? We start firefighting again, and if the manager is struggling, we fire them again.

Surely it’s fairly clear that even with this approach we would be in Groundhog Day every season and be relegated eventually. Our wage budget simply cannot compete with most clubs in the division.

But this is what some here want I think. What a lack of vision. How short term.

Or as Tony is trying to do. Have a vision. Try and beat the bigger clubs by playing the long term game (those who play poker will be familiar with this ethos). Change the playing culture at the club from top to bottom, have a technical director overseeing and ensuring we have the same footballing philosophy at all age groups. Start a production line of talent. That doesn’t require hundreds of millions of pounds. Buy cheap exciting talent and blood them. If the haters actually had a look you can see this starting to bare fruit already (Lamptey, Ben White, Molumby, Alzate, Sanchez, Ostigard, Connolly would all go for millions and millions pounds already).

This transition is obviously not going to be easy. And you’d have to be fairly short sighted to not see that. But the rewards are clear. Either continue being a yo yo club a la Norwich or West Brom, or try and become an English Ajax.

As Tony and the club have said many times, top 10 is a LONG term goal. And it’s not going to be easy. I think there’s a big subset of fans who understand this. However there are short term fans who clearly don’t.

If you don’t buy into Graham Potter or Dan Ashworth and what’s going on at the club, rather than direct and hurl abuse online to GP every week (and anyone who dares go against group think) you should be honest enough to take it up with Tony Bloom, as it’s his vision for the club.

So do you want to be West Brom and fire and hire a firefighter? Or do you want to be different and try and build something special that could see us become an English Ajax?

Brilliant post. The only thing I disagree with is the critique of the Norwich model. They have stuck with the manager and it is paying off dividends. They will bounce back and maybe push on. A bit of yoyo isn't the end of he world, as long as the eventual outcome is yo.

Ditto Stains. WBA however have blinked again (repeat offenders) and lack any sort of long term strategy. My neighbour is a baggie and has been rolling his eyes when I talk about the Albions for years.

Anyway, good to have a thread that, in my worthless opinion, at least starts well

 

[Harry Wilson's tackle]

This is the biggest straw man argument going and one that the OP relies heavily on.

Literally not one person is suggesting that we sack Potter and bring in a hoofball merchant like Fat Sam.
Other managers exist who can play nice football and manage on a small budget

Oh yes they are. The poster was Eggman I think on another thread. He cites Sam, Dyche and even the Blades manage as having the gumption (or something) that Potter lacks

That said.....who do you suggest we appoint? I have seen not one sensible name of an available man to appoint (Benitez was mentioned....FFS). Available and fitting the bill (proven track record at keeping sides in the top flight while playing attractive attacking football).

It seems (and this is a reasonable inference but not a fact) that those who are very keen for Potter to go are extremely relaxed about Ashworth being the fulcrum of the team that finds his replacement, presumably plucking some unknown superstar from the German or Spanish league to everyones amazement and delight.

Or are they actually one breath away from a cry of "Sack The Board!"?

 

[albionalbino]

If he were to listen to the boo boys right right now, Tony would fire Graham Potter and install a fire fighter manager to dig us out of trouble. Else what would be the point?

So who would you get then. The just relegated Eddie Howe?
Mark Hughes? And say this new manager keeps us up. We all celebrate. But what next season? We start firefighting again, and if the manager is struggling, we fire them again.

Surely it’s fairly clear that even with this approach we would be in Groundhog Day every season and be relegated eventually. Our wage budget simply cannot compete with most clubs in the division.

But this is what some here want I think. What a lack of vision. How short term.

Or as Tony is trying to do. Have a vision. Try and beat the bigger clubs by playing the long term game (those who play poker will be familiar with this ethos). Change the playing culture at the club from top to bottom, have a technical director overseeing and ensuring we have the same footballing philosophy at all age groups. Start a production line of talent. That doesn’t require hundreds of millions of pounds. Buy cheap exciting talent and blood them. If the haters actually had a look you can see this starting to bare fruit already (Lamptey, Ben White, Molumby, Alzate, Sanchez, Ostigard, Connolly would all go for millions and millions pounds already).

This transition is obviously not going to be easy. And you’d have to be fairly short sighted to not see that. But the rewards are clear. Either continue being a yo yo club a la Norwich or West Brom, or try and become an English Ajax.

As Tony and the club have said many times, top 10 is a LONG term goal. And it’s not going to be easy. I think there’s a big subset of fans who understand this. However there are short term fans who clearly don’t.

If you don’t buy into Graham Potter or Dan Ashworth and what’s going on at the club, rather than direct and hurl abuse online to GP every week (and anyone who dares go against group think) you should be honest enough to take it up with Tony Bloom, as it’s his vision for the club.

So do you want to be West Brom and fire and hire a firefighter? Or do you want to be different and try and build something special that could see us become an English Ajax?

Why do you persistently feel the need for juvenile name calling? "Bedwetters", "Boo boys", "Haters".... Some fans are just frustrated or annoyed at the way things are going.
You come across as an over emotional teenager when I'm sure you're middle aged or elderly. You often make reasonable and well thought out posts, not that I always agree with them but we're all entitled to our point of view without doing a disservice to others or yourself.

 

[Herr Tubthumper]

One other thing, is anyone on here genuinely worried about relegation? Whilst I like the EPL it’s not the be all. I wouldn’t be too fussed if we went down.

 

[Pavilionaire]

Watching Leeds rip through West Brom last night was a wake-up call. Their direct, single-minded approach to goal-scoring is refreshing, a welcome addition to the Premier League and whilst I dislike the club you cannot deny their attacking play is a joy.

In many ways it is not dissimilar to Aston Villa, another team who have come up and are now settling the Prem alight with some terrific football.

If we are to compete we need to bring in players who will take players on, take risks, box clever. Sure, we have wasted money on Locadia, Ali J but we have also recruited well in Lamptey and Bissouma, and developed players too. However, what we can't allow to happen again is to be over-stocked with central defenders and under-stocked with strikers. If we need to sell to buy then so be it, because the alternative is stagnation and then watching the good players leave anyway because of relegation.

 

[Shooting Star]

As Tony and the club have said many times, top 10 is a LONG term goal. And it’s not going to be easy. I think there’s a big subset of fans who understand this. However there are short term fans who clearly don’t.

Vaga, in your opinion, how many seasons do you think Welbeck (who’s 30) will play for us?

 

[vagabond]

Tony Blooms vision for the club

Vaga, in your opinion, how many seasons do you think Welbeck (who’s 30) will play for us?

Unknown.

I’m actually on record as being VERY underwhelmed by Welbeck’s signing and expressed huge disappointment at the time that he was our “striker summer signing”.

But then got taken away by all the NSC praise, the hype, and then that goal at Villa. He is a good pro, and will get the odd goal. But he has never been prolific. Even at bigger teams with better players surrounding him.

 

[vagabond]

Tony Blooms vision for the club

Watching Leeds rip through West Brom last night was a wake-up call. Their direct, single-minded approach to goal-scoring is refreshing, a welcome addition to the Premier League and whilst I dislike the club you cannot deny their attacking play is a joy.

Leeds still have the 2nd season to deal with, if they perform well then I consider them truly back.

But I agree. I utterly despise their fans, worst in the league. But Bielsa has built a good team with a nice system there and hats off to them, they’ve performed very well and surprised a lot of teams.

Confidence though isn’t it. Let’s how Leeds do if they go through a run like we’re going through.

 

[Billy the Fish]

Oh yes they are. The poster was Eggman I think on another thread. He cites Sam, Dyche and even the Blades manage as having the gumption (or something) that Potter lacks

That said.....who do you suggest we appoint? I have seen not one sensible name of an available man to appoint (Benitez was mentioned....FFS). Available and fitting the bill (proven track record at keeping sides in the top flight while playing attractive attacking football).

It seems (and this is a reasonable inference but not a fact) that those who are very keen for Potter to go are extremely relaxed about Ashworth being the fulcrum of the team that finds his replacement, presumably plucking some unknown superstar from the German or Spanish league to everyones amazement and delight.

Or are they actually one breath away from a cry of "Sack The Board!"?

Fair enough, I'm factually incorrect but the sentiment is right - a huge majority don't want a hoofball type of manager.

I've said it on a few threads, Slaven Bilic is available and I think he would keep this group of players up. His teams play good football.

As a left field suggestion João Pedro Sousa in Portugal is doing well at a tiny club. Was Marco Silva's assistant for years. He has more premier league experience than Potter had when he joined.

I'm not a fan of knee jerk sackings (see Bilic at WBA) I genuinely believe that Potter has lost the plot and will take us down. Sometimes you have to be ruthless before it's too late.

 

[Shooting Star]

Unknown.

I’m actually on record as being VERY underwhelmed by Welbeck’s signing and expressed huge disappointment at the time that he was our “striker summer signing”.

But then got taken away by all the NSC praise, the hype, and then that goal at Villa. He is a good pro, and will get the odd goal. But he has never been prolific. Even at bigger teams with better players surrounding him.

I ask only because I think that long term vision of the club you referenced in your OP is not as long as we first imagined.

As a regular poster who’s probably seen me bleating on about this in many other threads, please forgive me for what I’m about to write: the club in October posted an article entitled I can help Anion reach the Top Ten, says Welbeck. The reason why I post it so often is that I don’t think it’s gained enough recognition (or perhaps I’m preaching to the converted). Danny gave a 6 minute interview, and yet the club choose to take THAT comment (about helping Albion reach the top ten) to use as the headline. It’s not only blatant click-bait; the club want us to believe that the dream is not so far away. Danny is 30. How many seasons, credibly, does he have left as a top flight striker? Two, three max? If the club truly believed the top ten ambition was a longer term goal than 2-3 years time, then I’m sure they would have just ignored Danny’s comment and hoped anyone listening would just think that he’s overly optimistic. But no, they use it as the headline.

I don’t disagree with much of what you said originally vaga, I just believe that Tony’s ambition of us being a top ten club isn’t as long term as we once thought, going by club PR. And if we don’t show progression this year, then it’s hard to see how we could keep the faith that we could be a top ten club in a season or two’s time, for me anyway.

(Link to the article, if anyone wants it, here: https://www.brightonandhovealbion.com/news/1868917/i-can-help-albion-reach-the-top-ten-says-welbeck. For those who have seen me post this multiple times, you may metaphorically slap me. )

 

[Gun shot]

"The English Ajax"

You been at the New Year's Eve sherry already old boy?

So another dinosaur outwits Klopp again without a dodgy penalty. Oh, and a League Cup quarter-final too. Newcastle should have beaten Liverpool tonight. Callum Wilson - now that's someone who can usually find the net. More long-term vision there.

 

[vagabond]

Tony Blooms vision for the club

I ask only because I think that long term vision of the club you referenced in your OP is not as long as we first imagined.

As a regular poster who’s probably seen me bleating on about this in many other threads, please forgive me for what I’m about to write: the club in October posted an article entitled I can help Anion reach the Top Ten, says Welbeck. The reason why I post it so often is that I don’t think it’s gained enough recognition (or perhaps I’m preaching to the converted). Danny gave a 6 minute interview, and yet the club choose to take THAT comment (about helping Albion reach the top ten) to use as the headline. It’s not only blatant click-bait; the club want us to believe that the dream is not so far away. Danny is 30. How many seasons, credibly, does he have left as a top flight striker? Two, three max? If the club truly believed the top ten ambition was a longer term goal than 2-3 years time, then I’m sure they would have just ignored Danny’s comment and hoped anyone listening would just think that he’s overly optimistic. But no, they use it as the headline.

I don’t disagree with much of what you said originally vaga, I just believe that Tony’s ambition of us being a top ten club isn’t as long term as we once thought, going by club PR. And if we don’t show progression this year, then it’s hard to see how we could keep the faith that we could be a top ten club in a season or two’s time, for me anyway.

(Link to the article, if anyone wants it, here: https://www.brightonandhovealbion.com/news/1868917/i-can-help-albion-reach-the-top-ten-says-welbeck. For those who have seen me post this multiple times, you may metaphorically slap me. )

I have seen you mention this article before, and no worries at all.. it’s a great point. The club PR may have been a little overkill.

If, as you suggest, Tony’s top 10 goal is not as long term as thought than yes I agree, Potter’s in trouble. Good post.

 

[vagabond]

I'm not a fan of knee jerk sackings (see Bilic at WBA) I genuinely believe that Potter has lost the plot and will take us down. Sometimes you have to be ruthless before it's too late.

This is where we have to trust Tony.

 

[Not Andy Naylor]

Fair enough, I'm factually incorrect but the sentiment is right - a huge majority don't want a hoofball type of manager.

I've said it on a few threads, Slaven Bilic is available and I think he would keep this group of players up. His teams play good football.

As a left field suggestion João Pedro Sousa in Portugal is doing well at a tiny club. Was Marco Silva's assistant for years. He has more premier league experience than Potter had when he joined.

I'm not a fan of knee jerk sackings (see Bilic at WBA) I genuinely believe that Potter has lost the plot and will take us down. Sometimes you have to be ruthless before it's too late.

I like Bilic personally but there have been doubts about whether he works his teams hard enough. Lack of fitness, too many days off etc. That's not what we need.

 

[BadFish]

Some people are just desperate for potter to be the right man that they look past the facts and our recent record over the last 18 months. I see nothing that will change if given another 18 months.

The boo boys annoy the long term project fans and visa versa.

The difference is that some are guessing while others focus on the crap that’s been served up already.

Ultimately no opinions on here make any difference so we are all just pissing in the wind.

All are guessing about what will happen. Thankfully those making the decision are in possession of more information than all of us.



Sent from my Redmi Note 7 using Tapatalk

 

[nwgull]

OP, there has to be a balance between the long term and the short term though doesn't there? I mean we've spent a fortune on our academy which will help us in the longer term and to a degree is helping us now, but the consequences are that we're getting outmuscled in the transfer market by the likes of Newcastle and Villa (and ahem Benfica) for strikers. They are getting up the league and we're going down it.

I don't think we should ignore the long term view, but if we do go down and spend a couple of seasons in the Championship we won't be able to run a Cat A academy with well funded women's and disabled teams and all that stuff.

The project relies on PL income and for that we need goals and for that we need to be competitive in the striker market.

Why not? We managed to do that in the Championship from 2014 to 2017. The Cat A academy is the last thing that would go whilst TB is owner of the club.

 

[Justice]

This is where we have to trust Tony.

Out of interest in Poyet’s last season do you think TB made the right call to keep Poyet for the run in and play off games when he clearly wanted out after speaking to Reading?

 

[nwgull]

Out of interest in Poyet’s last season do you think TB made the right call to keep Poyet for the run in and play off games when he clearly wanted out after speaking to Reading?

At the time Reading came in for Poyet, we had just beaten Palace 3-0 but were still just outside the play off zone in 7th. Given how strongly we finished the season, it probably was the correct decision in hindsight.