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Three minutes silence



keaton

Big heart, hot blood and balls. Big balls
Nov 18, 2004
9,895
Personally i think anyone that can get angry at having to have a three minute's silence is seriously messed up and needs to look in the mirror and realise quite how much of a prick they've become.
For the purposes of intelligent debate this is from today's Guardian


"A time to mourn

The EU has requested that member states come to a standstill at noon today to observe a three-minute silence for victims of the Indian Ocean tsunami. Is this just a shallow, belated gesture - or the best way to show our solidarity, asks Blake Morrison

Wednesday January 5, 2005
The Guardian

I remember a cartoon about western aid from decades ago. In the first frame a small boy playing with his food is told to eat up: "Think of the starving millions," his mother scolds him. In the second frame, he dutifully tackles his greens. In the third, having cleared his plate, he answers the phone: "It's the starving millions here," the voice at the other end says, "We just called to say thanks."
On the face of it, today's three-minute silence in memory of the tsunami victims - a silence ordained by the EU and sanctioned by Tessa Jowell - is a similarly pointless exercise. What good will it do the people of Indonesia, Sri Lanka, Thailand and other devastated areas that we hang our heads for 180 seconds and fly flags at half-mast? Could any gesture be more futile? What those countries need from us is that we put our hands in our pockets, not stand with them stiffly at our sides.

There are other reasons for resenting the act of piety. It is state-imposed rather than an expression of collective will, prearranged rather than spontaneous, ritualistic rather than innovative. And given how slow western governments were to pledge assistance, it also has an air of atonement about it. Ten days on, now that European political leaders have returned from holiday, we, the public, are formally being invited to recognise the scale of the catastrophe.

But in many living-rooms across Europe, recognition began as early as Boxing Day, when it was already clear that the tsunami must have brought greater destruction than first reports suggested - when even those of us with no knowledge of the region realised that once television crews and relief agencies penetrated less accessible coastal areas, the estimates of the death toll would rise. That's why private donations quickly outstripped those pledged by governments. And why black armbands were worn (and a one-minute silence observed) at football matches on December 28. It's not we who have been laggard in acknowledging the tragedy but our political leaders, none more so than Tony Blair, whose slowness off the mark this time contrasts markedly with his quickness four months into his premiership in 1997, when he astutely gauged, gave voice to and in some small measure helped to create the lachrymose public response to the death of Princess Diana.

To the sceptical, today's three-minute silence can't help but seem a shallow and belated gesture of sympathy. But to refuse to observe it just because Blair, Bush and various tainted western agencies approve of it would be perverse. Public silence in medias res - abandoning normal routines to remember the dead - has been a powerful tradition since the Armistice. And if the greatest natural disaster in our life time isn't worth commemorating, then what is?

"Calumnies," Ben Jonson says in Volpone, "are answered best with silence." Catastrophes, too. Even those of us who work from home, alone, with no one to monitor us, will find it hard not to do the right thing at midday. It's true that the expression of public mourning has become so familiar of late that its rituals are at risk of losing all meaning. The bunches of flowers tied to lampposts where pedestrians or drivers have died. The candles burning for Princess Diana. The football players standing with their heads bowed round the centre circle every time a famous manager or former player passes away. It's hard to say when exactly Britain lost its stiff upper lip - after Lockerbie? Gazza's tears during the 1990 World Cup? Dunblane? But we can no longer be accused of emotional nullity. We may not keen or wail but when it comes to public tragedy we know how to put on a good show.

That's all today's silence might look like: a show. But what other mark of respect is there? How else to express pity for the victims, empathy for the survivors, and incredulity at the vastness of the death toll? "An event has happened, upon which it is difficult to speak, and impossible to be silent," Edmund Burke wrote of the events in Paris in 1789. Mass loss of life brought about by political upheaval demands analysis; so do acts of terrorism. The many words written about 9/11 can be justified as an effort to understand what brought it about and to limit the possibility of something similar happening again. Even Princess Diana's death involved theories of blame and avoidability.

But the tsunami, as a natural disaster, defeats words. Some of its effects might have been diminished by an early-warning system, but nothing could have stopped it happening. And if helplessness in the face of nature makes us lost for words for once, if only for three minutes, that's surely appropriate.

It is also heartening that a developing-world catastrophe should make it into the pantheon of western mourning. I can't remember this happening before - not with the Bhopal gas explosion 20 years ago, not with the massive earthquake in Bam near Tehran in 2003, and certainly not with Bhuj, in India, when an earthquake measuring 7.9 on the Richter scale struck in 2001, killing 30,000 people, 10 times as many as were to die in the World Trade Centre nine months later.

The cynic will say: "Ah yes, the disaster only became newsworthy this time because western tourists were among the casualties; if the victims had all been brown-skinned, the story would have disappeared by now or never have made it beyond page 19 - Earthquake at Sea, Only Johnny Foreigners Dead." It is certainly true that the presence of westerners has helped swell the media coverage in the past 10 days, and that the tales of European survivors have a voyeuristic fascination. The Swedish woman photographed running not away from the tsunami, but towards it, so as to rescue her children; the Brit who tied his wife and children to a tree with beach towels; the surfer who caught the ultimate wave.

It might have been us, we think: we take holidays in such places, too. But as each day has passed, so attention has steadily shifted to the indigenous populations and their suffering - it is for them that we are sending our money, not to help western tourists get home again.

Looked at like that, today's three-minute silence is something to welcome - a tiny first step in the long struggle to narrow the divide between first and third worlds, to accord Asians and Africans the same value that we accord westerners. In the mourning after 9/11 and Madrid, and even Princess Diana, there was a sense of us weeping for ourselves. This time we'll be showing solidarity with a people of whose lives we know little or nothing - only that those lives have been devastated and deserve whatever little we can give.

Yes, it seems faintly obscene that we should have the leisure to stand still today, while others are frantically searching for their families or (now that such hope has faded) clearing up the ruins. But we can't all be volunteers with Médecins Sans Frontières. And a three-minute silence doesn't preclude us or our governments from pledging further assistance - on the contrary, the longer the effects of the tsunami are kept in mind, the more donations will pour in. So however much we might resist doing what the nanny state tells us, this isn't the moment to kick up a fuss. The next time a minor royal dies, by all means refuse to be silent. But today, just for three minutes, please shut up.

The history of silences

The history of the commemorative silence is debated, but the originator may have been a Melbourne journalist and first world war veteran, Edward George Honey, who was living in London in 1919. In a letter to the London Evening News in May of that year he appealed for five minutes of contemplation amid the raucous celebrations planned for the first anniversary of the end of the first world war.

He took the idea, he said, from a South African practice. "During the War, we observed what we called the 'three minutes' pause'. At noon each day, all work, all talk and all movement were suspended for three minutes that we might concentrate as one in thinking of those - the living and the dead - who had pledged and given themselves for all that we believe in."

In October 1919, Lord Milner forwarded a suggestion to King George V for a period of silence on Armistice Day in all the countries of the empire. The war cabinet approved the suggestion but amended the duration to one minute. At the suggestion of the king, the silence was lengthened to two minutes.

The silence for the fallen subsequently became a national institution, suspended only during the second world war in 1941 and 1944. However, the duration of memorial periods of silence has continued to fluctuate from event to event. At the funeral of Diana, Princess of Wales on September 6 1997, Buckingham Palace announced a one-minute silence in her memory, considered more appropriate than the traditional two minutes. The terrorist attacks on New York and Washington on September 11 2001 merited two minutes at the instigation of the Queen. The rest of Europe observed three minutes.

The funeral of the Queen Mother in April 2002 was observed by a two-minute silence. On Saturday July 5 2003, it was back to one minute to mark the deaths of the Bali bomb victims in Indonesia. On March 15 of last year, the EU requested that all member countries observe three minutes' silence for the victims of the Madrid train bombings.
Dilpazier Aslam "
 




Jul 14, 2003
891
BN2
Think of all the rebuilding contracts and the oil (Didn't someone say that there are some of the most extensive oil deposits on the planet in the Indian Ocean?).

We must show them that we care, to be in with a shout. Sounds like a good enough reason for three minutes' silence to me.

Funny thing that: Isn't it now 3.8 million dead in the man-made conflict in Africa? Where's their silence? Oh, yeah - no oil.
 


Marc

New member
Jul 6, 2003
25,267
keaton said:
Personally i think anyone that can get angry at having to have a three minute's silence is seriously messed up and needs to look in the mirror and realise quite how much of a prick they've become.


thats what I'm getting at, I might've gone OTT in places but the jist is the same, if you dont like the 3mins then just shut up anyway, i'm sure you'd love 3mins of not doing any work!

anyway thats enough from me on this before my heart explodes!
 


Easy 10

Brain dead MUG SHEEP
Jul 5, 2003
62,169
Location Location
I observed the 3 minutes silence, and I think that anyone who deliberately didn't just to "make their point" is a bit of an arse.

I didn't agree with it, but I respected it all the same.
 


Easy 10 said:
I observed the 3 minutes silence, and I think that anyone who deliberately didn't just to "make their point" is a bit of an arse.

I didn't agree with it, but I respected it all the same.

So I'm an arse and your a person who is unwilling to stand up for their beliefs.

A draw then I guess :jester:
 






Publius Ovidius

Well-known member
Jul 5, 2003
46,681
at home
so mr readingstockport, what would you have done when everyone was observing a minutes silence...whistle, clap loudly, show your arse to the office?

Or chosen to leave the room and leave people to observe what they wanted to?
 


Deano's Right Foot

Well-known member
Jul 5, 2003
3,913
Barcombe
Hungry Joe said:
I got tutted at for making a cup of tea during it. What's so f***ing disrespectful about making tea?

Was it tea from India or Sri Lanka?

In which case you can say that it was a deliberate show of solidarity and that you were contributing to their economy.
:thumbsup:
 






Hungry Joe

SINNEN
Oct 22, 2004
7,636
Heading for shore
Good points. seriously for a moment though. I'm pissed off with this self-righteous "I'm, a more caring human being than you because........." attitude that's infected this country ever since that bint Dianna was killed. I could bore the shit out of you all with a list of things I've done/contributed to but that's MY BUSINESS and no-one elses. I kept quiet and was thinking about my missing colleague and chose to make a cuppa while I did it and then some f***ing arsehole tutts at me and I come back on here and read more "anyone who dares question the morality/hypocracy etc it is a naughty boy and should take a long hard look at themselves" shit.

............and relax.
 


Brovion

In my defence, I was left unsupervised.
NSC Patron
Jul 6, 2003
19,692
Deano's right foot made a valid point that no one notices the slow drip drip drip of children dying through hunger - probably because none of them (or very very few) are European.

When are we having 3 minutes silence for them? Why does Mother Nature have to throw the odd 'spectacular' (and kill some Europeans) to get your attention?
 
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No dtg, I got on with my work and didn't interupt those who wanted to observe the minutes, oh sorry 3 because this tragedy is obviously more valuable than any other, silence. I didn't force anyone not and I don't expect anyone to try to force me to. Simple.
I wish people would stop trying to impose their fake emotions on others, if you feel emotional enough about this then observe the silence if not, don't.

edit

I am not trying to suggest that anyone on here is displaying fake emotions but many many people that I meet every day are.

end edit.

Interesting to note though that the bank I went to to transact my business during it had no qualms at all about dealing with me. None at all.

And one other thing, where was the silence for the 800,000 killed in the 10 day massacres in Rwanda. I must have missed that one as well.
 
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keaton

Big heart, hot blood and balls. Big balls
Nov 18, 2004
9,895
I think i lot of people are confusing a valid reason for actually taking stock of the world and paying respects and the outpouring of grief for no reason. The deaths of Bigley, Diana and the Queen Mum were blown out of all proportion. So to, to a large extent, was 9/11.
However what's going on now is one of the worst natural disasters of all time. At least over 150,000 are dead.

Hungry Joe-very few people were questioning morality, they were whining about EU directives and 'why should i have to'.
I stand by the fact that anyone who complains about the silence is a prick.
 


Brovion

In my defence, I was left unsupervised.
NSC Patron
Jul 6, 2003
19,692
keaton said:
I think i lot of people are confusing a valid reason for actually taking stock of the world and paying respects and the outpouring of grief for no reason. The deaths of Bigley, Diana and the Queen Mum were blown out of all proportion. So to, to a large extent, was 9/11.
However what's going on now is one of the worst natural disasters of all time. At least over 150,000 are dead.

Hungry Joe-very few people were questioning morality, they were whining about EU directives and 'why should i have to'.
I stand by the fact that anyone who complains about the silence is a prick.
In the main those are good points well made. For my own part I should point out that that I didn't actually 'complain' about having to be silent (as I work on my own I was silent anyway) but if I'd just sat still for 3 minutes after about the first 10 seconds I wouldn't have thought about the victims at all, like Meade's Ball I would have been wondering about what to have for lunch and whether my wife had fixed the washing machine. Consequently what would have been the point? I've already remembered the victims in my prayers.
 




Hungry Joe

SINNEN
Oct 22, 2004
7,636
Heading for shore
keaton said:
I think i lot of people are confusing a valid reason for actually taking stock of the world and paying respects and the outpouring of grief for no reason. The deaths of Bigley, Diana and the Queen Mum were blown out of all proportion. So to, to a large extent, was 9/11.
However what's going on now is one of the worst natural disasters of all time. At least over 150,000 are dead.

Hungry Joe-very few people were questioning morality, they were whining about EU directives and 'why should i have to'.
I stand by the fact that anyone who complains about the silence is a prick.


I agree with that 100%. The problem is that the disproportiante and in some senses fake outpourings you mention have left a legacy whereby anyone who questions anything to do with a 'tragedy' and the response to it gets slated. Boris Johnson made some valid points and then had to go round Liverpool apologising like a naughty schoolboy. This is not the free-thinking democracy I think of Britain as, it's a knee-jerk reactionary moral majority State (I'm quite proud of that, might copyright it).
 


Brovion

In my defence, I was left unsupervised.
NSC Patron
Jul 6, 2003
19,692
Hungry Joe said:
I agree with that 100%. The problem is that the disproportiante and in some senses fake outpourings you mention have left a legacy whereby anyone who questions anything to do with a 'tragedy' and the response to it gets slated. Boris Johnson made some valid points and then had to go round Liverpool apologising like a naughty schoolboy. This is not the free-thinking democracy I think of Britain as, it's a knee-jerk reactionary moral majority State (I'm quite proud of that, might copyright it).
What he said.
 


Trufflehound

Re-enfranchised
Aug 5, 2003
14,117
The democratic and free EU
It's a matter of personal choice whether you observe silences like this out of respect for those who died. If you don't feel the need, fine. But if there are people around you who wish to pay their dues, then you have a moral obligation to keep quiet out of respect for THEM. End of.

If you were standing by the road and a funeral procession drove past, you may not know or care about the person in the box, but would you point a finger at the mourners and chant "you're not singing any more"?
 


Hungry Joe

SINNEN
Oct 22, 2004
7,636
Heading for shore
Trufflehound said:
If you were standing by the road and a funeral procession drove past, you may not know or care about the person in the box, but would you point a finger at the mourners and chant "you're not singing any more"?

If they were Palace fans, yes.

Again though, I agree but I repeat; what's so disresppectful about quietly making a cuppa?
 
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Publius Ovidius

Well-known member
Jul 5, 2003
46,681
at home
readingstockport said:
No dtg, I got on with my work and didn't interupt those who wanted to observe the minutes, oh sorry 3 because this tragedy is obviously more valuable than any other, silence. I didn't force anyone not and I don't expect anyone to try to force me to. Simple.
I wish people would stop trying to impose their fake emotions on others, if you feel emotional enough about this then observe the silence if not, don't.

edit

I am not trying to suggest that anyone on here is displaying fake emotions but many many people that I meet every day are.

end edit.

Interesting to note though that the bank I went to to transact my business during it had no qualms at all about dealing with me. None at all.

And one other thing, where was the silence for the 800,000 killed in the 10 day massacres in Rwanda. I must have missed that one as well.

Well done, it is your choice to observe it or not, I just find it odd that people have to be so negative about other people's reactions. Its the same with religion, there are people on here who regard people who follow a religion as somehow they are simpletons and quite obviously mad. 9/11 became an issue especially to Brighton Fans because we lost one of our own, Robert Eaton. You can also look at it another way...Indonesia has a very strong militant Muslim majority who hate the West, why is it that the people of Great Britain are giving over vast amounts of money to the relief effort, when not that many months ago, in Bali, an Indonesian terror group set off a bomb aimed specifically at Westerners
 


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