Thou shalt murder

[Barrel of Fun]

As expected.

Whatever your beliefs, don't you think it is a little tasteless to put them on a Brighton forum whereby there may well be people that have made the gut wrenching decision not to go through with a pregnancy and label them murderers?

Seriously, would you be willing to meet with someone that has had an abortion and call them a murderer outright?

 

[Phat Baz 68]

Bozza freedom of speech etc but threads like this are ridiculous !!!!

 

[Not Andy Naylor]

Murder? f*** off with your right-wing fundamentalist Christian bollocks. There are plenty of sites you can spout that kind of twisted propaganda without infecting this one with it.

I'm not religious or right-wing. But isn't it true that before an abortion there's a human life - ie a living human organism - and after an abortion there isn't?

No, it doesn't count as murder. The killing of the foetus is legal, so a woman has the right to get it done, and I don't suggest that it is usually a decision that's taken lightly. But I don't think I'd really want to see the places that carry out these, er, "terminations" advertised on TV.

 

[Not Andy Naylor]

It only takes one to make an egg. It takes two to fertilise it. Then one to implant it in her womb, that same one to share her blood, nutrients, air, risk her health, play host to a growing foreign mass, while living with a hormone imbalance, becoming vulnerable to a whole host of dangers (including, but not limited to lack of mobility to avoid external dangers, problems with pregnancies and child birth etc).

It's also only one person that has the abortion and has to go through the physical act.

The rights of this is one-sided because the development (and potential abortion) of a baby/fetus is one-sided.

I note that the baby or potential baby has no rights in this situation ...

 

[Acker79]

I'm not religious or right-wing. But you can't deny that before an abortion there's a human life - ie a living human organism - and after an abortion there isn't. No, it doesn't count as murder. The killing of the foetus is legal, so a woman has the right to get it done, and I don't suggest that it is usually a decision that's taken lightly. But I don't think I'd really want to see the places that carry out these, er, "terminations" advertised on TV.

Yes you can, it's one of the main cruxes of the debate - debate point 1) is it a living human individual with all the rights of a fully developed and birthed baby, debate point 2) do the mother's rights outweigh the zygote/fetus/baby/embryo's

Whether or not it is a living human, a human organism, or whatever can be defined by physical form, consciousness, individuality, or definition of life, and thus is constantly denied and debated.

 

[Acker79]

I note that the baby or potential baby has no rights in this situation ...

'baby' and 'potential baby' are different things and it muddies the water to use them as if they are interchangeable. Sperm is a potential baby, should my sperm have rights?

The fetus has to be born for it to technically be a baby, so no, the baby has no rights because there is no baby until it is born.

 

[Mellotron]

I hate abortion i do, in certain circumstances i agree, rape, mother or childs life will be at risk.

What i dont agree with is these idiots that go out on a saturday, shag what ever many blokes and end up pregnant. Fucks me right off i know of someone that has had 3 abortions do they not know what contraceptive is really ffs.

If i see an advert i will turn over

See I think this is the issue, and the concern of some people. That slowly through advertising it will become as casual as "the morning after" pill.

I am uncomfortable with abortion, regardless of it not living YET it is clearly going to be a life so it is still effectively LEGAL pre-murder, I have to admit though I've always been confused why being pro-life is seen as the conservative, rightwing viewpoint, surely it's the more liberal and loving way of looking at the situation?

My views above are in NO way affected by religion, so divert your hatred and intolerance of religion elsewhere.

 

[Steveapps71]

But how far back do you take that - is it morally wrong to knock one out as you'd be killing the live sperm ?

just do what i do, save em in a sock under your bed i think that way they live for years!

 

[Steveapps71]

Wish someone had aborted this thread starter...

amen brother

 

[Not Andy Naylor]

Yes you can, it's one of the main cruxes of the debate - debate point 1) is it a living human individual with all the rights of a fully developed and birthed baby, debate point 2) do the mother's rights outweigh the zygote/fetus/baby/embryo's

Whether or not it is a living human, a human organism, or whatever can be defined by physical form, consciousness, individuality, or definition of life, and thus is constantly denied and debated.

If it's not living then there's no problem and no need for an abortion. And if it's not human, what is it? Assuming both father and mother are human, that kind of narrows it down ...

 

[Mental Lental]

I met a girl once who didn't believe that dinosaurs actually existed and that god put those bones in the ground. The OP kind of reminds me of her.

When you reach that kind of level of delusion there's really no point in arguing with them.

So I don't.

 

[Mental Lental]

Feel free to take the cut down version of the test and see how well you score.

U.S. Religious Knowledge Quiz

12 out of 15. 80%

 

[brightn'ove]

I met a girl once who didn't believe that dinosaurs actually existed and that god put those bones in the ground. The OP kind of reminds me of her.

When you reach that kind of level of delusion there's really no point in arguing with them.

So I don't.

Aha yes, the god invented science to test our faith argument.

What a load of delusional nonsense, absolute denial.

 

[Albion Rob]

This is a bit of a disgusting thought but based on what I understand from this thread, if a woman was eight weeks pregnant and walking down the street and you randomly ran up to her and punched her in the stomach and she lost her baby/future baby, presumably you could only be charged with assault (or something to that effect) on the mother and no charges could be brought for the loss off the 'future baby'? Is there a legal standpoint on this (I'm not planning to do it, I love babies).

By the way, for my money surely the clock starts running when the sperm connects with the egg in terms of life - all the suggestions that cracking one off might be construed as 'murder' seem a bit of a shrill defence - similar to some of those present by some on the other side of the debate, oddly.

 

[Albion Rob]

I met a girl once who didn't believe that dinosaurs actually existed and that god put those bones in the ground. The OP kind of reminds me of her.

When you reach that kind of level of delusion there's really no point in arguing with them.

So I don't.

Wasn't that a Bill Hicks gag?

 

[Westdene Seagull]

just do what i do, save em in a sock under your bed i think that way they live for years!

Indeed - you should see how full my freezer is !

 

[CheeseRolls]

I suspect that there may be good scientific grounds to consider a reduction in the legal termination period from the current maximum of 24 weeks. However like many people in the UK I look on aghast at the religious/political crossover movement in the US and think I do not want any part of this fundamentalist claptrap. It seems it is just not possible to have any sort of a rational debate on this subject sadly.

 

[Dandyman]

See I think this is the issue, and the concern of some people. That slowly through advertising it will become as casual as "the morning after" pill.

I am uncomfortable with abortion, regardless of it not living YET it is clearly going to be a life so it is still effectively LEGAL pre-murder, I have to admit though I've always been confused why being pro-life is seen as the conservative, rightwing viewpoint, surely it's the more liberal and loving way of looking at the situation?

My views above are in NO way affected by religion, so divert your hatred and intolerance of religion elsewhere.

Sorry that does not add up. The concept that life begins at the moment of conception is a religious one. A cluster of cells is not a human being and is not capable of life outside the womb so to assert otherwise is either based on a religious viewpoint about creation and/or an ignorance of scientific fact. Alternatively you may of course simply not believe that women have the right to control their own fertility.

The stance of anti-abortionists is also IMO deeply hypocritical for two reasons. The first is that the anti-choice lobby are usually also against effective sex education in schools and elsewhere which would reduce the number of unwanted pregnancies and secondly that abortions were carried out before 1967 it was just that the wealthy could afford safe ones and usually escaped prosecution while the rest of the country faced risky back street operations and the possibility of jail.

 

[Dandyman]

Actually mr Topbanana. in a study be the Pew forum it was found that atheists consisstently outscore all religions on their knowledge of the various faiths.

U.S. Religious Knowledge Survey - Pew Research Center

Religious IQ: Why do atheists outscore Christians? - The Week


The truth is most religious people do not really know what their fantasy book says, they read what liars like ken ham or kent hovind say and accept it or instead accept the lies of organisations like cmi or anserws in genesis. I try to educate myself in order to shine the bright light of intelligence into the darkest recesses of their ignorance.

Feel free to take the cut down version of the test and see how well you score.

U.S. Religious Knowledge Quiz

You answered 13 out of 15 questions correctly
for a score of 87%.

and I am a life long atheist.

 

[Seasidesage]

What you are saying is tedious religiously derived bollocks. End of discussion.

Is the correct answer