The problem with posession football.

[perseus]

Gus Poyet's lowdown:

Countering a team that defends deep | Tactics | FourFourTwo Performance

 

[Easy 10]

Gus Poyet's lowdown:

Countering a team that defends deep | Tactics | FourFourTwo Performance

"Movement is the most important thing for strikers facing a high line. Forwards need to make it confusing for the opposition. Make a variety of different runs, swap positions, come deep and get away from the defenders, and constantly look for pockets of space.”

How the f*** did Barnes get away with todays performance then ? I've seen more movement from a fly-tipped fridge.

 

[Gafones]

Also give Wrexham some credit for their defending. I thought when our players did get into good positions the ball wasn't delivered quick enough and Wrexham were very quick at cutting off the angles.

 

[Chicken Runner61]

I'm not even sure a total passing game, ball movement or positional play is relevant until you have reached the top half of the prem and have the financial clout to be able to buy the players able to move and pass the ball around. It didn't do WBA any good under Mobray and every team that gets promotion and tries to play their way to the top has crashed and burned.

If it wasn't for Van Persie Arsenal would be struggling to stay out of the relegation half and it's obvious Wenger is having problems finding players that have the skill to play the ball and the physical strength to defend and compete without resorting to moaning and fouling. Funny how they and us have such a bad disciplinary record if the football is so good - you would think it the other way round.

Look at the way Sunderland have been transformed by O Neil's introduction of a basic return to defend and hit on the break. It's the same players and within a few games they have changed from a losing team to beating the anticipated champions. No doubt o' Neil will improve the team with new faces and move to dominate teams with skill and flair but he does not try and pass the ball around teams when he has no chance of doing so. I'm not convinced that even Barcas tippy tappy style is fantastic to watch when you get two teams that nullify each other out in to playing the ball too many times so the ball moves everywhere except to the back of the net.

Yesterday with 20 mins to go I counted the number of attacks each team made into the last third towards goal and it was around 1 a minute but most of those never went anywhere near goal and it was Wrexham who came far closer.

Boring Arsenal used to be called because of their 1-0 wins and dour football but they seem to suffer the same malaise now and the emirates has become a library of glory hunting jcls watching Wengers total football style that appears to be more media and luvvie hyped myth and legend than reality. For years we were told how Wengers boys would take over the world and that Fabregas would introduce Spanish style and flair into the youth and academy and yet now 6 years later all they have to offer is an English style player that can pass the ball a bit in Wiltshire and have resigned an aged hero to try and resurrect a trophy challenge.

The start of this season was brilliant but the new stadium hyped this up and I do feel that we met other teamsat the right time allowing us to get results above our ability. The next few games should tell us if this really was the case and if we have been found out but we certainly need to have a plan b of play to compete with teams that don't allow us to get near their goal, I don't see too much of us playing an earlier ball to catch them out as Gus advocates and not having a keeper that does not give goals away will haunt us again soon as the two we have both are very susceptible to gaffes.

 

[Chicken Runner61]

"Movement is the most important thing for strikers facing a high line. Forwards need to make it confusing for the opposition. Make a variety of different runs, swap positions, come deep and get away from the defenders, and constantly look for pockets of space.”

How the f*** did Barnes get away with todays performance then ? I've seen more movement from a fly-tipped fridge.

Having read that it sort of explains why I couldn't tell where or what he was trying to do. Now I can see why he was all over the place but the only people confused were us and him!

 

[GoldWithFalmer]

"Movement is the most important thing for strikers facing a high line. Forwards need to make it confusing for the opposition. Make a variety of different runs, swap positions, come deep and get away from the defenders, and constantly look for pockets of space.”

How the f*** did Barnes get away with todays performance then ? I've seen more movement from a fly-tipped fridge.

The key-Off the ball options as well a must-keep moving

 

[Eggman]

The tippy-tappy stuff is also driving me mad. I seem to remember a few decades ago that's what the South American sides played. 90minutes of passing the ball and one goal if you were lucky. B-O-R-I-N-G. We need a big striker who can be a target for long balls so that we can mix it up a bit.

FFS

 

[NMH]

A team had 58% posession today, and lost 2-1. They had just 1 shot on target, for all their dominance of the ball. That team was the frankly pathetic Wigan Athletic. Their shot on target was from the rebound of a penalty which struck a post. At some point, you have to create some chances and at some point, if you want to win football matches, you actually have to shoot. For all our pretty play today, did we really threaten with our probing passing? No. We threatened when LuaLua and Buckley (on the rare occaison) took on their man and got behind them and fired the ball into the box. We got our goal from it, and we could have had a few more. Our football needs to be focused on getting them into the game in threatening positions, getting the ball played in behind the full back for them to run on to and get the ball into the area. The other problem we had today was that Barnes was the only target in the box. With all due respect, if Wrexham played without centre backs today they'd have been equally as adept at handling the threat posed by our #9 today.

My loyalty to Gus isn't questionable, I'm just frustrated. I spent £23 (including the bonus £2 for having the temerity to buy my ticket online) to sit in the West Stand lower to watch our development squad draw a game which does matter. I feel very disappointed tonight.

How and when are The Albion going to get to play the 'development squad', and is your paying 25nicker making it a requirement that Brighton always play Vicente, or all the first team regulars?
We are no different from Arsenal or Manure in this respect, and you 'could' be pleased you got to see these young new players in their first games.
Would you have complained for seeing Beckham turn out as a sub at The Goldstone, that it's not fair on your gate money?

I also noticed your headline complains about the tactics - when surely you know this is how Gus is playing the team every week?

You also spell 'possession' wrong. I am MOANING about this.

 

[Barrow Boy]

I'm not even sure a total passing game, ball movement or positional play is relevant until you have reached the top half of the prem and have the financial clout to be able to buy the players able to move and pass the ball around. It didn't do WBA any good under Mobray and every team that gets promotion and tries to play their way to the top has crashed and burned.

If it wasn't for Van Persie Arsenal would be struggling to stay out of the relegation half and it's obvious Wenger is having problems finding players that have the skill to play the ball and the physical strength to defend and compete without resorting to moaning and fouling. Funny how they and us have such a bad disciplinary record if the football is so good - you would think it the other way round.

Look at the way Sunderland have been transformed by O Neil's introduction of a basic return to defend and hit on the break. It's the same players and within a few games they have changed from a losing team to beating the anticipated champions. No doubt o' Neil will improve the team with new faces and move to dominate teams with skill and flair but he does not try and pass the ball around teams when he has no chance of doing so. I'm not convinced that even Barcas tippy tappy style is fantastic to watch when you get two teams that nullify each other out in to playing the ball too many times so the ball moves everywhere except to the back of the net.

Yesterday with 20 mins to go I counted the number of attacks each team made into the last third towards goal and it was around 1 a minute but most of those never went anywhere near goal and it was Wrexham who came far closer.

Boring Arsenal used to be called because of their 1-0 wins and dour football but they seem to suffer the same malaise now and the emirates has become a library of glory hunting jcls watching Wengers total football style that appears to be more media and luvvie hyped myth and legend than reality. For years we were told how Wengers boys would take over the world and that Fabregas would introduce Spanish style and flair into the youth and academy and yet now 6 years later all they have to offer is an English style player that can pass the ball a bit in Wiltshire and have resigned an aged hero to try and resurrect a trophy challenge.

The start of this season was brilliant but the new stadium hyped this up and I do feel that we met other teamsat the right time allowing us to get results above our ability. The next few games should tell us if this really was the case and if we have been found out but we certainly need to have a plan b of play to compete with teams that don't allow us to get near their goal, I don't see too much of us playing an earlier ball to catch them out as Gus advocates and not having a keeper that does not give goals away will haunt us again soon as the two we have both are very susceptible to gaffes.

Top post, and I agree with every point you have made. Prepare to be flayed alive by the 'Emperors new clothes' brigade on this forum though!

 

[Foolg]

Going backwards and keeping the ball is better than hitting it long, ALWAYS. If you can not see that you should f*** off to Stoke.

Is it?
Nobody can argue that the last 15 minutes against Burnley we TERRORISED them with balls over the top early to CMS, its how he likes to play football. Coventry away, our ONLY chance came from an early ball between the Cov back four which put him through 1 on 1. Keeping the ball at the back allows opposition to organise their back line, as Wrexham highlighted perfectly in the last 20 minutes yesterday, and we had nowhere near enough creativity to break them down.
I'll agree to disagree with you

 

[Ninja Elephant]

What a shame we didn't take the game seriously enough to actually win it yesterday, eh.

 

[Weststander]

You are generalising far too broadly there. There is something between Stoke and Barcelona.

Who gives a f*ck about Stoke. Please, please, let us never take anything out of their percentages, terrority,box mayhem, game.

Swansea & Norwich play it on the deck. Shows what can be done, once our squad improves at this level.

 

[mune ni kamome]

The trouble is Box Mayhem is CMS's game to a tee

 

[Husty]

Going backwards and keeping the ball is better than hitting it long, ALWAYS. If you can not see that you should f*** off to Stoke.

Load of shit, if the long ball is on because Lua Lua is completely unmarked out on the right wing 30yards from the nearest defender, knocking it back to Ankergren/Brezovan for the umpteenth time is not the thing to do.

The other thing they need to do is show for the ball, watching peterborough earlier, they had men in midfield showing for the ball constantly, often when Bridcutt recieves the ball he has no options ahead of him.

 

[Chicken Runner61]

Who gives a f*ck about Stoke. Please, please, let us never take anything out of their percentages, terrority,box mayhem, game.

Swansea & Norwich play it on the deck. Shows what can be done, once our squad improves at this level.

You must listen to talksport too much - Theres a lot more to stoke than the hype put out by the media and managers trying to excuse their own teams inept performances. They might over use the long throw and have some large defenders but Etherington, Fuller and Walters have much more to them and Palacious and almost signing Ba first shows they are now trying to improve the squad.

 

[Chicken Runner61]

The trouble is Box Mayhem is CMS's game to a tee

This! and the fact we play quite a few long balls to him.

 

[Dick Knights Mumm]

Yes we need to move the ball a bit quicker and move off the ball quicker and see things quicker, but it is a PROGRESSION we are undertaking. We are getting better SLOWLY. You can not just suddenly play fast paced passing football, it takes time, development and patience. Players will cock up and we will concede, we will look toothless at times, but, if we are generally better at the beginning of each season we are getting there!

Well said Plooks. It is a long term plan.

 

[Chicken Runner61]

Yes but what you describe there is a passing game being played badly. The ball should not be passed aimlessly about. What you want in short sharp passing with movement off the ball, then when the ball gets to players like Lua Lua he can really hurt teams as they have been pulled out of shape by the passing.
Or would you prefer a risky 30 yard pass which can be cut out and Lua Lua has to take under control before moving and then having no support as everyone is 30yads behind him if he manages to?

If you want my opinion both will work (with the right players for each way) but I prefer the quick sharp passing.

You are absolutely right here Plooks the movement is just as important as the passing and getting the ball to a winger or attacker is what we should be doing in that way but we are failing at that and often send the ball backwards because we don't have the players that create the spaces to pass or cross the ball into. Too often Bridcutt is looking for a pass to make and ends up having it intercepted. In the end we give the ball away trying to pass the ball into the net (which aint going to happen) when a slightly more direct pass to the wing and fired in would be nice occasionally.

 

[Muzzy]

The main point that people seem to be missing here is that Gus is setting his tactics out his way, (the right way). He just doesn't have enough good players to adopt his way of thinking in this league!

We are simply far to slow in possession and need to play with a far higher tempo and move the ball much, much faster... It's fair enough to move the ball around at the back if there's a lack of options available, but once an attack is on, none of our midfield have a killer instinct to drive forward with any pace!

Although not his biggest fan, blaming Barnes for our current form is a bit unjust IMO. The same could apply to CMS. The confidence that these two are displaying at the mo is surely down to lack of any quality service? They are both just going through the motions and playing poorly because of this...

Bring in a couple of decent ball playing pacey midfielders and a "destroyer" and this will change next season.... I just hope and prey that it's in this division! (I don't think we'll go down but it's not beyond the realms of possible).

Keep the faith.. We have come a long way in a very short space of time.

 

[mune ni kamome]

But surely this is the team Gus built for the Championship. CMS, Hoskins, Buckley, LuaLua, Harley. Five players there brought in to take on the Championship. Allright we've been unlucky with injuries but so does every team. He had his spend up in the close season. Now we're saying the team's not good enough for Gus's style of play