[Politics] The General Election Thread

[Is it PotG?]

Well, I assumed (possibly wrongly, judging from your response) that you wouldn't want to lose to a man dressed as a dolphin again, give he's the only other Brexit supporter

You assume quite a lot of things, quite regularly. Maybe that's the problem.

 

[blue-shifted]

Posted this in the brexit thread as a response but its proper home is here.

With Corbyn the problem is, is that the people who say that Corbyn is un-electable believe this because there's lots of other people saying he is un-electable.

It's a self fulfilling prophecy. But then, when you ask for specifics why he's un-electable, it's mostly because he is a Marxist (a lie) a terrorist sympathiser (a lie) an anti-Semite (a lie) and his policies will create more debt (half truth at best).

But the undoubted fact is, his and Labour policies poll well with a majority of the electorate. If you take away the lies about him, and the people who say he is un-electable vote for the polices instead of on who the leader is, a leader who by the way who has 1/650th of decision making power in the commons, he would be elected. It's a real shame a majority will not vote for their own standards of living and public services to get a unicorn Brexit which never existed and to make themselves worse off through tory polices whilst making the rich even richer.

Let us take the Labour nationalisation policies as an example. The CBI say they will increase public debt. In fact, we will be using public money to create a public ownership. As far as the balance sheet goes, we have the same amount of capital and we can reap the rewards of the profits. The public are already paying out the bum for privatisation through government subsidies.

I don’t know a single person who does not consider share holdings as part of their overall wealth, do you? And do you know what, if did go tits up, guess what? It’s a saleable asset. It’s a win win. Cannot say the same for reversing the damage of Brexit if it ever happened.

Vote Labour for real change because this country is currently the pits.

This “Corbyn is unelectable” phrase is the greatest weapon in the Tory press arsenal. Say it enough times and they know, quite rightly, that some vaguely sensible people will say it and think it. It plays into the hands of the I’m not going to do something because everyone else isn’t mindset, which most people think they are above, but clearly aren’t. So much about politics is working out what you think everyone else will do and 90% of his happens on a subconscious level.

 

[WATFORD zero]

You assume quite a lot of things, quite regularly. Maybe that's the problem.

So which is it ? Johnson or Farage ?

Or would you rather not say

 

[blue-shifted]

What do you see the chances of Farage managing to peel off the Tory vote? Clearly he will find this harder at a General election than in a European, and clearly he’ll find it a lot harder against Boris than against Theresa.

My thinking on this? Farage isn’t stupid. I don’t think he’ll field the majority of those candidates and he’ll find a way to pull them. At the moment he’s using the threat of fielding them to keep Boris to the right.

 

[Is it PotG?]

So which is it ? Johnson or Farage ?

Or would you rather not say

Alas living in Soameshire my vote would not, at present, have too much effect.

 

[Westdene Seagull]

So which is it ? Johnson or Farage ?

Or would you rather not say

So as usual you avoid the question on you - why do you assume you're right so often ? Given you were a high ranking businessman you must know what assuming does ?

*** awaits avoidance of the question in favour of another question … probably around a 'good deal' ! ***

 

[WATFORD zero]

Alas living in Soameshire my vote would not, at present, have too much effect.

To be fair, If I had to choose between Johnson and Farage in order to get what I wanted I would probably be too ashamed to answer

 

[Is it PotG?]

To be fair, If I had to choose between Johnson and Farage in order to get what I wanted I would probably be too ashamed to answer

You need more self-confidence. I am sure there are books that might help.

 

[WATFORD zero]

So as usual you avoid the question on you - why do you assume you're right so often ? Given you were a high ranking businessman you must know what assuming does ?

*** awaits avoidance of the question in favour of another question … probably around a 'good deal' ! ***

I always believed you have to make assumptions based on the best information available at the time. A bit like this

Impossible to make a prediction without knowing who the PM will be.

My good friend says she will make some completely impossible predictions then

1. Boris will get elected
2. He will try and 'rebrand' May's deal
3. We won't leave with 'no deal' on October 31st

(I guess that being proven correct with all her previous predictions on what would happen on every 'LEAVE means LEAVE' date so far, may have given her a completely unjustified level of confidence - we will see )

View attachment 112510

why do you assume you're right so often ?

Because invariably I am

Sorry

 

[WATFORD zero]

You need more self-confidence. I am sure there are books that might help.

If I had to choose between Johnson and Farage in order to get what I wanted, I think I'd be way beyond the help of books

 

[Chicken Run]

This “Corbyn is unelectable” phrase is the greatest weapon in the Tory press arsenal. Say it enough times and they know, quite rightly, that some vaguely sensible people will say it and think it. It plays into the hands of the I’m not going to do something because everyone else isn’t mindset, which most people think they are above, but clearly aren’t. So much about politics is working out what you think everyone else will do and 90% of his happens on a subconscious level.

I think Corbyn will cut expenditure in the Armed Forces.

 

[Kalimantan Gull]

This “Corbyn is unelectable” phrase is the greatest weapon in the Tory press arsenal. Say it enough times and they know, quite rightly, that some vaguely sensible people will say it and think it. It plays into the hands of the I’m not going to do something because everyone else isn’t mindset, which most people think they are above, but clearly aren’t. So much about politics is working out what you think everyone else will do and 90% of his happens on a subconscious level.

But say it too many times, and it becomes just the soundbite it is. The entire Tory campaign in 2017 was built around finger-pointing at Corbyn saying 'Look at him!'. So people did have a look and for quite a few, including myself, what we found wasn't as bad as what was being suggested, and there was quite a lot of good there too. And Labour ended up doing a lot better than the polls at the start of the campaign suggested.

I don't think the Tory strategists are going to be as stupid this time round, but we are still seeing a lot of finger-pointing at Corbyn from many.

 

[theonlymikey]

I think Corbyn will cut expenditure in the Armed Forces.

This is from 2019 on the Labour website. Where I have highlighted the part which confirms this won't happen under Corbyn.

Nia Griffith MP, Labour’s Shadow Defence Secretary, responding to the Defence Select Committee’s report ‘Shifting the Goalposts? Defence Expenditure and the 2% Pledge: An Update’, which shows that MoD spending has been cut by 25% since 2010, said:

“It is hypocrisy of the highest order for both candidates for the Conservative leadership to talk of boosting defence spending when they have consistently voted for budgets, which have slashed the MoD’s funds to what they are today.

“This report highlights the severe and unprecedented cuts that the Conservatives have made to defence since 2010. Instead of considering what is necessary for our defence and security needs, Conservative Ministers have delivered crippling austerity which has put unprecedented strain on the men and women of our Armed Forces.

“You cannot do security on the cheap. The next Labour government will ensure that our armed forces are properly equipped and resourced to respond to wide-ranging security challenges.”

 

[KZNSeagull]

Posted this in the brexit thread as a response but its proper home is here.

With Corbyn the problem is, is that the people who say that Corbyn is un-electable believe this because there's lots of other people saying he is un-electable.

It's a self fulfilling prophecy. But then, when you ask for specifics why he's un-electable, it's mostly because he is a Marxist (a lie) a terrorist sympathiser (a lie) an anti-Semite (a lie) and his policies will create more debt (half truth at best).

But the undoubted fact is, his and Labour policies poll well with a majority of the electorate. If you take away the lies about him, and the people who say he is un-electable vote for the polices instead of on who the leader is, a leader who by the way who has 1/650th of decision making power in the commons, he would be elected. It's a real shame a majority will not vote for their own standards of living and public services to get a unicorn Brexit which never existed and to make themselves worse off through tory polices whilst making the rich even richer.

Let us take the Labour nationalisation policies as an example. The CBI say they will increase public debt. In fact, we will be using public money to create a public ownership. As far as the balance sheet goes, we have the same amount of capital and we can reap the rewards of the profits. The public are already paying out the bum for privatisation through government subsidies.

I don’t know a single person who does not consider share holdings as part of their overall wealth, do you? And do you know what, if did go tits up, guess what? It’s a saleable asset. It’s a win win. Cannot say the same for reversing the damage of Brexit if it ever happened.

Vote Labour for real change because this country is currently the pits.

Corbyn is the leader of a party that is perceived by the UK Jewish community as anti-semitic. That is not a lie. The fact that this is still an issue in the Labour Party months, if not years, after it was first raised is one reason that I feel that he is, or at least should be, un-electable as it shows an appalling failure of leadership, something that this country does not need.

 

[theonlymikey]

Corbyn is the leader of a party that is perceived by the UK Jewish community as anti-semitic. That is not a lie. The fact that this is still an issue in the Labour Party months, if not years, after it was first raised is one reason that I feel that he is, or at least should be, un-electable as it shows an appalling failure of leadership, something that this country does not need.

It's quite easy to build a perception when you ignore the facts arguing the opposite.

Somewhere, buried by the right wing media, is a BBC article which says:

"A network of Jewish Labour members has backed Jeremy Corbyn over claims the party has become "institutionally anti-Semitic" under his leadership.

Some 200 Labour supporters signed a Jewish Voice for Labour letter calling Mr Corbyn's party a "crucial ally in the fight against bigotry"."

https://www.bbc.co.uk/news/uk-politics-47322921

One must therefore conclude that if Corbyn was anti-semetic, this letter would never have been written, would never have been signed by 200 Jews and Corbyn/Labour would surely have lost all Jewish support. They haven't.

It's just become a stick to beat him with now. It's one of those things, where if you say it enough, it somehow becomes "fact". But it is not a fact. You will find most of the accusers of antisemitism are usually pro Israel regime. But that is a whole different debate entirely.

 

[The Clamp]

Ugh. Nicola Sturgeon YELLING ; “We’ll debate with you or both of you ANYTIME, ANYWHERE”...

Such hideous rhetoric across all parties. And it’s because of the feelings and need for loud, shouty, “we will fix this” sentiment that Brexit has propagated.
She sounded like ****ing Hitler today. All buying into the need to appeal to the base emotions.

Britain needs a bloody good washout and get shot of these desperate to hang onto power, desperate to gain power politicians.
We need calm and sensible proceedings, not this buying into the fury of the nation rabble rousers.
It’s worrying, depressing and exactly what we don’t need right now.

 

[highflyer]

Labour polls already improving in course of just a few days
Bookies odds moving fast in reponse
Brexit party look like they will be undermining Tories
Remain alliance now agreed to ensure Lib Dems/Greens/Independents/Plaid cooperate, mainly at the expense of Tories

And for all Corbyn is talked about as 'unelectable' he never did this:

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=C9MUwBEJRwk

 

[The Clamp]

Labour polls already improving in course of just a few days
Bookies odds moving fast in reponse
Brexit party look like they will be undermining Tories
Remain alliance now agreed to ensure Lib Dems/Greens/Independents/Plaid cooperate, mainly at the expense of Tories

And for all Corbyn is talked about as 'unelectable' he never did this:

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=C9MUwBEJRwk

Exactly what I mean. This bullshit. Does it really need the Gladiator soundtrack playing behind it?!
Nevertheless, a damning recording. He’s utter scum.

 

[highflyer]

Exactly what I mean. This bullshit. Does it really need the Gladiator soundtrack playing behind it?!
Nevertheless, a damning recording. He’s utter scum.

Well, i agree about the way it is presented, music etc. it was just the first version of the recording i found on line. And i think it's worth flagging up, as so many people seem to think that the kind of people that politicians used to fraternize with in the 80's and 90's should matter.

 

[Bozza]

Labour polls already improving in course of just a few days
Bookies odds moving fast in response

Which polls are you looking at out of interest?

This is my go-to for recent polls - http://britainelects.com/polling/westminster/ - and checking the recent numbers against the previous polls taken by each polling organisation shows either a widening Tory lead or, at best for Labour, no change.