[Politics] The General Election Thread

[Weststander]

In addition to what you rightly say, and was previously said, the other big issue is so many people have been hoodwinked into thinking they have more, whilst getting less. Hoodwinked by businesses, the press and worst of all the politicians. The 'upper working class' have been convinced they're middles class because their ex council houses currently have a value previously unimaginable . . . . Credit is nigh on free . . . . It won't take much of a shift to see millions in reposessive debt.

The fibs are on both sides, the IFS say Labour’s financial plans are “not credible”. The sums don’t add up. Then there’s the outright lie that only those over £80k income will pay more i. tax. The IFS, Andrew Neil, and every interviewer has challenged Corbyn on this lie. Anyone with married couples allowance, or anyone with some dividend income eg pensioners, or anyone who runs a small and profitable limited company, will all pay more in taxes, some far more. Why not come clean at least on this. Smoke and Mirrors from both main parties, duping the electorate, the arrogance of looking down on non-politicians as fools.

Agreed with you possible repossessions. Both main parties financial policies are not credible. The international markets will cotton on, UK interest rates would rise. Affecting most homeowners and those servicing debt.

 

[Is it PotG?]

I'm baffled by the betting in Hove , Sir Peter Kyle is 1/4 , the invisible man Robert Nemeth is 4/1 , 40/1 bar. Kyle is insanely popular and he has my backing. 1/6 is simply buying money stick 6 grand on and pick up 7 grand on Friday , easiest money ever

£950 of the profit on Corbyn @ 9/2 with the rest spaffed on a sausage bonanza at a pub of your choice in Hove.

 

[vegster]

One further point of interest - while all this mud is being thrown at Corbyn - Johnson is promising immunity from prosecution for the British soldiers responsible for the murder of 14 innocent people in Derry in 1972.

It's ok, don't read too much in to that ! the clue is in those three words.

 

[Weststander]

I'm baffled by the betting in Hove , Sir Peter Kyle is 1/4 , the invisible man Robert Nemeth is 4/1 , 40/1 bar. Kyle is insanely popular and he has my backing. 1/6 is simply buying money stick 6 grand on and pick up 7 grand on Friday , easiest money ever

Cheers, will bet on that.

What about Lucas, impossibly short odds?

 

[Lever]

Nerd that I am I decided to come back to this - and I will point out initially that I have campaigned in Ireland in opposition to the IRA campaign since the the late 1970s when I was a teenager.


Yes - Corbyn met with Linda Quigley and Gerry MacLochlainn after the Brighton Bombing - the meeting was arranged to discuss the treatment of prisoners the North of Ireland - both had served convictions on conspiracy charges, both claimed that they were not members of the IRA and had been wrongfully convicted. At the time Corbyn had no reason to disbelieve these individuals - he was also campaigning at this time for the release of the Birmingham Six, the Guildford Four and the Maguire Seven - all of whom had their convictions quashed after it was proven that the police had lied in court.


Breandán Mac Cionnaith spent six years in prison for an IRA bombing of a British Legion Hall in 1981. After his release Mac Cionnaith focused on political activity and there is zero evidence that he was involved with the IRA. Corbyn spoke on a platform with him in 2000 to demand a full inquiry into the murder of 14 innocent people by the British army in Derry in 1972. The Saville Inquiry had been established in 1998 - its findings weren't published until 2010 - 38 years after the killings and it confirmed that the victims were innocent of any wrong doing. Mac Cionnaith resigned from Sinn Fein in 2007.



Yes - Corbyn spoke on a platform in 2005 with Raymond McCartney to demand the publication of the report of the Saville Inquiry. McCartney was on the protest in Derry on Bloody Sunday in 1972 - he was 18 years old at the time. His cousin, James Wray, was one of those killed by the British Army, he was shot in the back as he was running for cover when the shooting started. McCartney joined the IRA after the killings (as did numerous others). In 1979 McCartney and another man were convicted of killing a member of the RUC and a businessman in 1977, sentenced to life in prison. He was released under licence in 1994. McCartney claimed he was innocent - and his convictions were quashed in 2007 - the only evidence against him was a confession that was fabricated by the police. At the time of this meeting McCartney was an elected member of the Northern Ireland Assembly and has been one of the leading figures in Sinn Fein who advocated for the end to the IRA campaign.


Mitchel McLaughlin is a loud mouth - the IRA wouldn't touch him with a barge pole. There is zero evidence that he was ever involved in the IRA. McLaughlin was elected as a Sinn Fein member to the Northern Ireland Assembly in 1998. The meeting with Corbyn happened in 1996 - Corbyn was one of several MPs who met with him to discuss the Northern Ireland peace process and how to move it along. McLaughlin was told that the IRA would have to reestablish their ceasefire before talks could progress.


This one is a beaut - Martina Anderson served time for conspiracy charges - she was elected an MLA in 2007 and is currently an MEP. The meeting with Corbyn organised by the Islington LP took place in 2007 (after Anderson was elected to the Northern Ireland Assembly) and was a debate on the peace process in the North - also participating in the debate was Sammy Wilson, hardline MLA for the Democratic Unionist Party (and racist Tory). So if Corbyn is to be criticised for meeting with Anderson - he should be equally criticised for meeting with Unionist bigot Wilson.


Yes - Corbyn had dinner with Gerry Kelly - in 2009 in London (by the way - I have also had 'dinner' with Gerry Kelly - we were in the same room - and the guy is an arrogant pr*ck). Corbyn was one of several hundred people at the event (and not the only British politician).


This was a conference that discussed the 1981 IRA hunger strike and its impact on international events today. Corbyn chaired one session of the conference - Bik McFarlane spoke at a different session. McFarlane joined the IRA in 1969 at the height of a loyalist pogrom in Belfast when loyalist thugs were burning Catholics out of their homes. He was convicted of a bombing in 1975 on the Protestant Shankill Road in Belfast that killed 4 innocent Protestants and one loyalist paramilitary member (who was there incidentally) and injured more than 60. The bomb attack was in retaliation for the Loyalist massacre of members of the Miami showband two weeks earlier. The bombing took place at the tail-end of an extended period of brutal sectarian killings that saw republican paramilitaries kill 88 Protestant civilians and loyalist paramilitaries kill over 250 innocent Catholic civilians. It was the darkest period for sectarian violence in the North and almost catapulted the North of Ireland into an open sectarian civil war. The Shankill bombing was one of the events that led to the establishment of the 'peace people' and the trade union 'Better Life for All' campaign with Catholic and Protestant working class people uniting on the streets to demand an end to sectarian killings.

McFarlane was sentenced to life in prison for the Shankill Road bombing. McFarlane was IRA commanding officer in the Maze prison when the hunger strikes took place in 1981 - the main reason why he was at the conference attended by Corbyn. He led a mass breakout of IRA prisoners from the Maze in 1983 and remained at large until re-arrested in 1986 in Holland and held until 1997. In 1998 he was charged with a kidnapping in the South in 1983 - the court case continued until 2010 when it collapsed due to lack of evidence.

A neighbour of mine is a relative of Bik McFarlane - and I got to know him when assisting a student who was researching the Maze prison breakout. I found him a highly intelligent character, deeply committed in his beliefs and someone who is totally committed to the peace process that Sinn Fein have engaged with. This is not to say that I support his previous aims or methods - but that he has traveled a long journey from IRA terrorist to peace advocate.

Yes Corbyn has met people who are formerly connected with the IRA (as have I) - that does not mean he supported their methods (and he has stated this) - but you cannot remove the context or the circumstances. The national question in the North of Ireland is a highly complex problem - one that is all too often clouded in propaganda from all sides (including the Tories).

It should be noted that while Corbyn has met members of Sinn Fein in public - the Tories - including Thatcher - and Labour ministers in government - have held secret talks with the IRA on an ongoing basis since the start of the Troubles in 1969 (they have also held secret talks with loyalist paramilitaries - whose sectarian atrocities have been far worse than the IRA). Corbyn is condemned for doing in public what the Tories get praised for doing behind closed doors - it really is a case of throwing enough mud so some of it will stick.

Comprehensive and clear. Thank you for taking the time and making the effort to explain these points. I have learnt a lot.

 

[Hugo Rune]

The SNP will continue to destroy Labour and Tories in Scotland.

In taking those 9/2 odds on Corbyn being the PM, we can make huge sums. Do it.

It will be dramatic, one way or another. Either way, the UK will be heading down a new and unknown road, that will a drama too.

I’ll take your advice. The only way this could happen is with an Labour-LibDem-SNP-Green progressive alliance but worth a punt if tactical voting wins out:

https://www.google.co.uk/amp/s/amp....keep-tories-out-remain-voter-general-election

 

[Eeyore]

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=nj-YK3JJCIU

Good advert. Fair play.

Naturally, Boris Johnson lies at the start.

 

[vegster]

The fibs are on both sides, the IFS say Labour’s financial plans are “not credible”. The sums don’t add up. Then there’s the outright lie that only those over £80k income will pay more i. tax. The IFS, Andrew Neil, and every interviewer has challenged Corbyn on this lie. Anyone with married couples allowance, or anyone with some dividend income eg pensioners, or anyone who runs a small and profitable limited company, will all pay more in taxes, some far more. Why not come clean at least on this. Smoke and Mirrors from both main parties, duping the electorate, the arrogance of looking down on non-politicians as fools.

Agreed with you possible repossessions. Both main parties financial policies are not credible. The international markets will cotton on, UK interest rates would rise. Affecting most homeowners and those servicing debt.

Best stick with the austerity then and hope Johnson wins, after all the last 9 years have been great and we could do with another round of belt tightening once Brexit is done to make us competitive.

 

[Weststander]

Best stick with the austerity then and hope Johnson wins, after all the last 9 years have been great and we could do with another round of belt tightening once Brexit is done to make us competitive.

Why does no one from Labour come clean on all the new taxes for many millions? The taxes are stated within the manifesto, but a lie is peddled that only the “super rich” earning over £80,000 will pay for the spending spree.

Furtive, lying, just like Mr Johnson.

For some reason that’s swept under the carpet from Corbyn’s disciples.

 

[Lever]

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=nj-YK3JJCIU

Good advert. Fair play.

Naturally, Boris Johnson lies at the start.

The film 'extract' has excellent production values but Hugh Grant's comment on what was 'left out' is significant. It's the written sign that says '... at Christmas you tell the truth'.

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=GJmhMPzlriI

Now... why would a tory promotional film leave that out I wonder?

 

[Bry Nylon]

So which leader has had the worst campaign?

Johnson I suppose has just been Johnson. Lots of bluff and bluster, big on soundbites but short on detail. A few PR blunders that would have buried other politicians (dodging Andrew Neil and putting that phone in his pocket) but - just as he always does - seems to breeze through relatively unscathed. On course for his majority then - God only knows what after that.

6/10

Corbyn has somehow failed to cut through, in spite of calling for this election for about 3 years. Had to do alot of the heavy lifting himself as seemingly other senior shadow front benchers have been bound and gagged out of site. It is always said that Corbyn loves campaigning but he always seems to be in Labour heartlands, preaching to the converted. A bizaare manifesto that looked like the product of a sixth form common room, and a programme for government that he seems to have failed to communicate effectively. On course for a second GE defeat and retirement from frontline politics.

5/10

The kindest thing that can be said about Jo Swinson is that this election came too early in her leadership. Let's be honest, she has had a shocker. I thought she would perform far better than she has. Possibly on the back foot right from the off when she persisted in making the fanciful claim that she could be PM on 13th December. Nobody was buying that load of horseshit. Has since had to change her strategy but in truth never recovered and loses her composure in TV debates too frequently. That first TV debate in Sheffield was a low point from which she has never recovered. Will she remain leader after the election? Possibly? Probably. After all, who else is there in the Lib Dems to take on the role. Of course, having said all that she could still be power broker in a hung parliament. But unlikely.

The worst of the three for my money. 2/10

 

[drew]

Nerd that I am I decided to come back to this - and I will point out initially that I have campaigned in Ireland in opposition to the IRA campaign since the the late 1970s when I was a teenager.


Yes - Corbyn met with Linda Quigley and Gerry MacLochlainn after the Brighton Bombing - the meeting was arranged to discuss the treatment of prisoners the North of Ireland - both had served convictions on conspiracy charges, both claimed that they were not members of the IRA and had been wrongfully convicted. At the time Corbyn had no reason to disbelieve these individuals - he was also campaigning at this time for the release of the Birmingham Six, the Guildford Four and the Maguire Seven - all of whom had their convictions quashed after it was proven that the police had lied in court.


Breandán Mac Cionnaith spent six years in prison for an IRA bombing of a British Legion Hall in 1981. After his release Mac Cionnaith focused on political activity and there is zero evidence that he was involved with the IRA. Corbyn spoke on a platform with him in 2000 to demand a full inquiry into the murder of 14 innocent people by the British army in Derry in 1972. The Saville Inquiry had been established in 1998 - its findings weren't published until 2010 - 38 years after the killings and it confirmed that the victims were innocent of any wrong doing. Mac Cionnaith resigned from Sinn Fein in 2007.



Yes - Corbyn spoke on a platform in 2005 with Raymond McCartney to demand the publication of the report of the Saville Inquiry. McCartney was on the protest in Derry on Bloody Sunday in 1972 - he was 18 years old at the time. His cousin, James Wray, was one of those killed by the British Army, he was shot in the back as he was running for cover when the shooting started. McCartney joined the IRA after the killings (as did numerous others). In 1979 McCartney and another man were convicted of killing a member of the RUC and a businessman in 1977, sentenced to life in prison. He was released under licence in 1994. McCartney claimed he was innocent - and his convictions were quashed in 2007 - the only evidence against him was a confession that was fabricated by the police. At the time of this meeting McCartney was an elected member of the Northern Ireland Assembly and has been one of the leading figures in Sinn Fein who advocated for the end to the IRA campaign.


Mitchel McLaughlin is a loud mouth - the IRA wouldn't touch him with a barge pole. There is zero evidence that he was ever involved in the IRA. McLaughlin was elected as a Sinn Fein member to the Northern Ireland Assembly in 1998. The meeting with Corbyn happened in 1996 - Corbyn was one of several MPs who met with him to discuss the Northern Ireland peace process and how to move it along. McLaughlin was told that the IRA would have to reestablish their ceasefire before talks could progress.


This one is a beaut - Martina Anderson served time for conspiracy charges - she was elected an MLA in 2007 and is currently an MEP. The meeting with Corbyn organised by the Islington LP took place in 2007 (after Anderson was elected to the Northern Ireland Assembly) and was a debate on the peace process in the North - also participating in the debate was Sammy Wilson, hardline MLA for the Democratic Unionist Party (and racist Tory). So if Corbyn is to be criticised for meeting with Anderson - he should be equally criticised for meeting with Unionist bigot Wilson.


Yes - Corbyn had dinner with Gerry Kelly - in 2009 in London (by the way - I have also had 'dinner' with Gerry Kelly - we were in the same room - and the guy is an arrogant pr*ck). Corbyn was one of several hundred people at the event (and not the only British politician).


This was a conference that discussed the 1981 IRA hunger strike and its impact on international events today. Corbyn chaired one session of the conference - Bik McFarlane spoke at a different session. McFarlane joined the IRA in 1969 at the height of a loyalist pogrom in Belfast when loyalist thugs were burning Catholics out of their homes. He was convicted of a bombing in 1975 on the Protestant Shankill Road in Belfast that killed 4 innocent Protestants and one loyalist paramilitary member (who was there incidentally) and injured more than 60. The bomb attack was in retaliation for the Loyalist massacre of members of the Miami showband two weeks earlier. The bombing took place at the tail-end of an extended period of brutal sectarian killings that saw republican paramilitaries kill 88 Protestant civilians and loyalist paramilitaries kill over 250 innocent Catholic civilians. It was the darkest period for sectarian violence in the North and almost catapulted the North of Ireland into an open sectarian civil war. The Shankill bombing was one of the events that led to the establishment of the 'peace people' and the trade union 'Better Life for All' campaign with Catholic and Protestant working class people uniting on the streets to demand an end to sectarian killings.

McFarlane was sentenced to life in prison for the Shankill Road bombing. McFarlane was IRA commanding officer in the Maze prison when the hunger strikes took place in 1981 - the main reason why he was at the conference attended by Corbyn. He led a mass breakout of IRA prisoners from the Maze in 1983 and remained at large until re-arrested in 1986 in Holland and held until 1997. In 1998 he was charged with a kidnapping in the South in 1983 - the court case continued until 2010 when it collapsed due to lack of evidence.

A neighbour of mine is a relative of Bik McFarlane - and I got to know him when assisting a student who was researching the Maze prison breakout. I found him a highly intelligent character, deeply committed in his beliefs and someone who is totally committed to the peace process that Sinn Fein have engaged with. This is not to say that I support his previous aims or methods - but that he has traveled a long journey from IRA terrorist to peace advocate.

Yes Corbyn has met people who are formerly connected with the IRA (as have I) - that does not mean he supported their methods (and he has stated this) - but you cannot remove the context or the circumstances. The national question in the North of Ireland is a highly complex problem - one that is all too often clouded in propaganda from all sides (including the Tories).

It should be noted that while Corbyn has met members of Sinn Fein in public - the Tories - including Thatcher - and Labour ministers in government - have held secret talks with the IRA on an ongoing basis since the start of the Troubles in 1969 (they have also held secret talks with loyalist paramilitaries - whose sectarian atrocities have been far worse than the IRA). Corbyn is condemned for doing in public what the Tories get praised for doing behind closed doors - it really is a case of throwing enough mud so some of it will stick.

Isn't the point not that he met people that may or may not have been members of the IRA or linked closely to them but that, if you are purporting to be an honest broker with regard to advancing the peace then surely you meet both sides? It's a bit similar to his links with Hamas where he meets those on one side of the conflict but not the other!

Think someone summed it up quite aptly on the radio the other day. Corbyn's problem is that he is just a political activist and not a credible leader!!!

 

[Pretty pink fairy]

So which leader has had the worst campaign?

Johnson I suppose has just been Johnson. Lots of bluff and bluster, big on soundbites but short on detail. A few PR blunders that would have buried other politicians (dodging Andrew Neil and putting that phone in his pocket) but - just as he always does - seems to breeze through relatively unscathed. On course for his majority then - God only knows what after that.

6/10

Corbyn has somehow failed to cut through, in spite of calling for this election for about 3 years. Had to do alot of the heavy lifting himself as seemingly other senior shadow front benchers have been bound and gagged out of site. It is always said that Corbyn loves campaigning but he always seems to be in Labour heartlands, preaching t the converted. A bizaare manifesto that looked like the product of a sixth form common room, and a programme for government that he seems to have failed to communicate effectively. On course for a second GE defeat and retirement from frontline politics.

5/10

The kindest thing that can be said about Jo Swinson is that this election came too early in her leadership. Let's be honest, she has had a shocker. I thought she would perform far better than she has. Possibly on the back foot right from the off when she persisted making the fanciful claim that she could be PM on 13th December. Nobody was buying that load of horsehit. Has since had to change her strategy but in truth never recovered and loses her composure in TV debates too frequently. That first TV debate in Sheffield was a low point from which she has never recovered. Will she remain leader after the electin? Possibly? Probably. After all, who else is there in the Lib Dems to take on the role. Of course, ahving said all that she could still be power broker in a hung parliament. But unlikely.

The worst of the three for my money. 2/10

I'd look at the positives and working majority parliament ,what's not to like about that , reap what you sow with the silent majority on the march to the ballot box
Regards
DF

 

[vegster]

Why does no one from Labour come clean on all the new taxes for many millions? The taxes are stated within the manifesto, but a lie is peddled that only the “super rich” earning over £80,000 will pay for the spending spree.

Furtive, lying, just like Mr Johnson.

For some reason that’s swept under the carpet from Corbyn’s disciples.

Probably because there is still a huge majority of people who want a good education for their kids,the best healthcare for their family and better roads and railways but couldn't countenance paying £10 a week more in tax to fund all that.

So Labour have to show that it's mostly top earners that will have to shoulder a bit more and the Tories will always try to target the weakest and most vulnerable and label them scroungers.

 

[Is it PotG?]

 

[Grombleton]

There is some real low-life, bottom feeding shit being peddled.

I'll let you decide if you are complicit in this or not. You know if you are though.

 

[JC Footy Genius]

Latest and last YouGov MRP poll just out ... Conservatives 339 seats, Labour 231, the Lib Dems 15 and the SNP 41.... likely Tory majority down to 28. Exciting!

https://yougov.co.uk/uk-general-election-2019/

 

[Hugo Rune]

Great website this if you’re prepared to vote on policies rather than blind partisan loyalty.

 

[Pretty pink fairy]

https://www.google.com/url?sa=t&sou...EEAM&usg=AOvVaw04N3zf5s4k45IcyER9Mrix&ampcf=1
Regards
DF

 

[zefarelly]

The fibs are on both sides, the IFS say Labour’s financial plans are “not credible”. The sums don’t add up. Then there’s the outright lie that only those over £80k income will pay more i. tax. The IFS, Andrew Neil, and every interviewer has challenged Corbyn on this lie. Anyone with married couples allowance, or anyone with some dividend income eg pensioners, or anyone who runs a small and profitable limited company, will all pay more in taxes, some far more. Why not come clean at least on this. Smoke and Mirrors from both main parties, duping the electorate, the arrogance of looking down on non-politicians as fools.

Agreed with you possible repossessions. Both main parties financial policies are not credible. The international markets will cotton on, UK interest rates would rise. Affecting most homeowners and those servicing debt.

Recent bollocks spouting is irrelevant, my point was more a reference to the general state of the nation over the last 30-35 years, which has basically been capitalist and/or capitalist lite. All for one and **** the rest!

Any 'public' investment in the last 40 years has private involvement. All the state has done is sell its assets. We don't even own our own land FFs, let alone our critical services.