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Thatcher to be given a state funeral

Thatchers State Funeral

  • I will mourn, she was a great leader

    Votes: 52 22.4%
  • I will not mourn but show respect

    Votes: 46 19.8%
  • I will enjoy the day off and play golf or something

    Votes: 38 16.4%
  • I will have a party as I hated her

    Votes: 96 41.4%

  • Total voters
    232
  • Poll closed .


Uncle Spielberg

Well-known member
Jul 6, 2003
43,043
Lancing
Here's some for starters in their frst 7 years.

Stealth Taxes – the first 90
New Labour promised not to put up income tax to get elected. So instead of in-your-face direct taxes, Chancellor Gordon Brown gave us new, indirect, Stealth Taxes and he abolished tax concessions. His attempts to fund New Labour's Fat Government Policy have savaged the pensions and savings industries and had cost the nation the equivalent of 16.5 p in the pound on the basic rate of income tax by 2004.

Here is a list of New Labour's first 90 Stealth Taxes with the date of introduction where known.
Tax & Waste Rules, UK!

July 1997
01 • Mortgage Interest Tax Relief At Source (MIRAS) reduced from 15% to 10%
02 • Dividend Tax Credits for pension schemes abolished
03 • Income tax relief on health insurance abolished
04 • Insurance Premium Tax extended to some health insurance
05 • Road Fuel Tax escalator increased to 6%
06 • Vehicle Excise Duty increased
07 • Tobacco duty escalator increased to 5%
08 • Stamp Duty raised to 2%
09 • Carry back of Corporation Tax losses limited to 1 year
10 • Windfall tax on utilities


March 1998
11 • Tax relief for the married couple's allowance (MCA) cut to 10%
12 • Top rate of Insurance Premium Tax extended to travel insurance
13 • Exceptional increase in tobacco and alcohol duties
14 • Duties on casinos and gaming machines raised
15 • Road Fuel Tax escalator increase brought forward
16 • Tax on company cars increased
17 • Tax relief on foreign earnings abolished
18 • Tax concessions for certain professions abolished
19 • Capital gains tax imposed on certain non-residents
20 • Restriction of Capital Gains Tax relief on reinvestment
21 • Corporation tax payments on account brought forward
22 • Stamp duty increased again
23 • Certain hydrocarbon duties increased
24 • Additional diesel duties introduced
25 • Landfill Tax increased
26 • Double tax credits on certain dividends restricted

March 1999
27 • National Insurance Contributions earning limit raised
28 • NI Contributions for self-employed increased
29 • Tax relief of Married Couple's Allowance abolished
30 • MIRAS abolished
31 • Self-employed contractors to pay NI and income tax as if employees
32 • Company car business mileage discount limited
33 • Double escalator on tobacco duties
34 • Insurance Premium Tax increased to 5%
35 • Vocational training relief abolished
36 • Employer NI Contribution base broadened to include all benefits in kind
37 • VAT on some banking services increased
38 • Tax on reverse premiums paid to tenants by landlords introduced
39 • Duty on domestic fuel oils up
40 • Vehicle Excise Duty for lorries increased
41 • Landfill tax escalator introduced
42 • Stamp Duty rates raised again to 2.5/3.5%

March 2000
43 • Tobacco duties increased above inflation
44 • Stamp duty raised for 4th time, scope of duty extended
45 • Extra taxation of life assurance companies
46 • Rules on tax havens tightened up
47 • Company car taxes raised

2001
The Chancellor gives the exhausted nation a year off – no new stealth taxes!

April 2002
48 • Personal tax allowances frozen
49 • National Insurance threshold frozen
50 • NI Contributions for employers raised
51 • NI Contributions for employees raised [Class 1 up 1%]
52 • NI Contributions for self-employed raised
53 • North Sea taxation increased
54 • Duty on some alcoholic drinks raised
55 • Stamp duty thresholds frozen
56 • Tax relief on investment in film industy restricted
57 • Rules on corporate debt tightened
58 • Nil-rate threshold for inheritance tax raised by less than the rate of inflation

April 2003
59 • VAT imposed on electronically supplied services
60 • Domestic staff on £89/week to pay NI & income tax, employers to pay NI
61 • Betting duty increases
62 • Tax on red diesel and fuel oil increased
63 • Anti-tax haven rules tightened to cover more UK firms with Irish subsidiaries
64 • Vehicle excise duty raised
65 • Personal tax allowances frozen again

July, 2003
66 • £35 added to all fines and £3 added to the cost of a home insurance policy

September, 2003
67 • Price of petrol raised 7p per gallon (with the VAT)

October, 2003
68 • Up to 8 times increase in the stamp duty on leases for retail premises
69 • Airport Tax doubled

December, 2003
70 • 40% extra Council Tax on second homes was sneaked in while the Westminster Wonders were breaking up for their hols a whole week before Xmas.
Additional info : It has been pointed out that a number of councils gave an even bigger discount for second homes and the increase for some people can be 80%. Plus the usual 6-18% annual rise, depending on how bloated the council's operations have become.
Exemptions may be granted if the second home owner (1) has to live somewhere because of his/her employment, (2) the dwelling comes with the job, or (3) there are special threat/security reasons involved. All of which excuses apply to 10, Downing Street, the home of a certain Mr. Anthony B. Liar. (Thanks to M.K.)

January, 2004
71 • £60 per day fine for late submission of self-assessment income tax forms
72 • Traffic wardens to receive powers to impose fines for a whole bunch of offences to keep poor people off the roads. The offences will include parking more than 19 inches from the kerb (£100) and dithering by people who are lost over, and who don't know whether to make a turn or keep straight on
73 • A 'Victims Fund' surcharge fine on everyone who passes through the courts. £5 for speeding up to £30 for murder.
74 • Legal Aid for the middle classes abolished

February, 2004
75 • £40 per week charge to middle-class parents for formerly free nursery places
76 • £200 per year charge to middle-class parents for places on formerly free school buses
77 • £250 per hour charge from the fire brigade for non-fire-related call-outs, e.g. clearing up after road accidents and rescuing pussy cats from trees

March, 2004
78 • £550 tax rise (at standard rate) for people using a company van or people-carrier out of work time
79 • Council Tax will rise at least 7.4% next year (according to the Budget)
80 • The tax incentive for owner-operator small businesses to become companies abolished
81 • Tax on cross-border payments for goods and services between multi-divisional companies extended to transactions within the UK
82 • Tax on trusts up from 34% to 40%
83 • Duty on red diesel up 1p/litre above inflation (57% rise)
84 • Duty on liquefied petroleum gas (LPG) used as fuel up 1p/litre above inflation (45% rise)
85 • Personal allowances for taxpayers under 65 frozen

April 2004
86 • PEPs and ISAs containing shares lose their tax break on dividends and the annual ISA allowance cut by £2,000 to £5,000
87 • The 100% tax allowance for small businesses & self-employed on new computer/advanced telephone equipment cut to 50% for 2004/5 tax year
88 • Passports – in addition to costing twice as much as the present price of £42, the new 'biometric data' passports will be valid for half as long. They will have to be renewed every 5 years instead of every 10 years, which doubles the cost yet again.
89 • £100 per year 'lighthouse tax' on small boats over 8 metres long. Commerial shipping lines think they should pay £2.6 million per year towards the annual £73 million cost of maintaining lighthouses and navigational equipment.

May 2004
90 • Council Tax bills to rise a further £110 in the affected areas to pay for 'Two Jags' Prescott's regional assemblies
 




Uncle Spielberg

Well-known member
Jul 6, 2003
43,043
Lancing
On the cards:
Second Home Tax : New Labour would like to see owners of second homes paying a special TRIPLE rate of Council Tax – to which could be added an Absentee Tax on homes left unoccupied for 6-8 months per year.

Nuclear Tax : Every household will have to pay an extra £3,400 on its electricity bills over the next 20 years (£170 per year) to pay for new nuclear power stations and nuclear waste disposal.

Crime Tax : Lord Goldsmith, the New Labour Attorney General, would like to let violent criminals and people arrested in possession of drugs and knives & other offensive weapons buy their way out of a gaol sentence and a criminal record by stumping up £500 to the government's coffers.

Bed Tax : The government is eager to add a further 10% tax to hotel bills – in addition to VAT (currently 17.5%). The tax would make Britain the highest taxed holiday destination in Europe.

Insulation Tax : Householders who fail to have their windows double-glazed, and their loft and cavity walls insulated, will have to pay more Council Tax for causing global warming. Those have made their home more energy-efficient might just get a rebate (but don't hold your breath).

Obesity Tax : To be applied to 'junk' foods in the name of combatting obesity and getting the nation 'fighting fit for the Olympics'.

Global Warming Airline Tax (a.k.a. Skyway) : The amount of the tax will vary according to the distance flown, e.g. £10 for a trip to Europe rising to £50 for a journey to the United States. Foreign Sec. Margaret Bucket thinks this tax will prevent Britain from descending into 'climage chaos'.

Planning Gain Supplement : Announced in the 2006 December pre-budget report, this is a new stealth tax (to be introduced within 3 years) on land sold by home owners to developers based on the difference between value of the land itself, and the value of the land with planning permission.

Garden Debris Tax Threatened in June 2007 : A charge of £50/year from your council for removing the lawn cuttings, prunings and other stuff that goes in the green wheely bin for recycling via the council's composting scheme. The government seems to think home composting, or fly-tipping, is a better alternative.

English Lesson Tax Also threatened in June 2007, the government's decision to stop funding college courses offering English lessons to migrants means that Ruth Kelly's Commission on Integration & Cohesion will recommend tagging the cost onto the Council Tax.

Dormant Account Tax July 2007 The government is making noises about stealing the £15 billion in bank and building society accounts which have not been accessed for 15 or more years.

Home Information Tax July 2007 Information from HIPs will be collected by Council Tax assessors for use in the next revaluation programme in order to extract the maximum amount of cash from home owners.

Bin Bag Tax October 2007 In the first 6-month trials, councils will hand out 26 purple bin bags. Extra bags will be available at 28p a time, and the dustmen will remove only the official bags, ignoring cheaper bags bought from supermarkets. This stealth tax is estimated to add £40/year to the Council Tax and it will lead to an epidemic of fly-tipping and theft of purple bin bags.

Capital Gains Tax October 2007 As a result of 'simplification' of the system, this tax will be going up by 80% for people who sell their small business when they retire.

National Insurance October 2007 The small print of the 2007 Budget hides the fact that £4.5 billion will be taken from middle and higher income taxpayers through changes to National Insurance thresholds.

Business Rate Tax Relief will be slashed from April 2008 at a time when the government has 78 acres of floor idle space in office buildings and grace & favour homes, which are lying empty but still costing the taxpayer a packet in lease-fees and maintenance.

Window Tax March 2008 The government chickened out of a revaluation for Council Tax in England but its minions are still snooping behind the scenes. By March 2008, about 8 million houses had been screened and coded according to the view from their windows. Those with a full view of something scenic will be charged the top rate of Window Tax, those with just a partial view will be charged an appropriate proportion of the tax.
Off-street parking places have also been totted up by Gordon Brown's bean-counters at the Department for Communities & Local Government to provide the basis for another Stealth Tax when he's feeling brave enough.
 


Uncle Spielberg

Well-known member
Jul 6, 2003
43,043
Lancing
1997/1998
2004/2005

Income Tax
£77 billion
£123 billion

National Insurance
£45 billion
£78 billion

Stamp Duty
£3.5 billion
£9 billion

Inheritance Tax
£1.7 billion
£2.9 billion

Capital Gains Tax
£1.4 billion
£2.3 billion
 


SULLY COULDNT SHOOT

Loyal2Family+Albion!
Sep 28, 2004
11,341
Izmir, Southern Turkey
Money is not bad Tom, if someone has worked their nuts off and passed exmas and occupational qualifications, worked 60 hours plus a week what should they not have " loadsaomoney ". The Labour philospohy is any one over £ 20000 pa must be knocked down and taxed until their eyes bleed.

So that those earning less do not get taxed till their eyes bleed as they used to under the Tories.

Ooops forgot, you earn more than 20000 and couldnt give a rats arse.

I earn significantly over 20000 and still do care, for my sins.

Thatcher's philosophy was always don't care about others, just care about yourself. This was her biggest legacy and the reason why I hate her despite SOME of the good things she did. She has signed Britain's death sentence because eventually no country will ever survive if individuals only care for themselves. Instead it will ultimately become an island of very rich and very poor people living in ghettoes with more violence and crime than they know what to do with and our children all on drugs and with a rap sheet.

Still, I'll shut up because you are not listening US. You've got your money and your comfy home so everything must be alright with the world... you can always cross the road if a dirty beggar asks you for money.
 


Uncle Spielberg

Well-known member
Jul 6, 2003
43,043
Lancing
So that those earning less do not get taxed till their eyes bleed as they used to under the Tories.

Ooops forgot, you earn more than 20000 and couldnt give a rats arse.

I earn significantly over 20000 and still do care, for my sins.

Thatcher's philosophy was always don't care about others, just care about yourself. This was her biggest legacy and the reason why I hate her despite SOME of the good things she did. She has signed Britain's death sentence because eventually no country will ever survive if individuals only care for themselves. Instead it will ultimately become an island of very rich and very poor people living in ghettoes with more violence and crime than they know what to do with and our children all on drugs and with a rap sheet.

Still, I'll shut up because you are not listening US. You've got your money and your comfy home so everything must be alright with the world... you can always cross the road if a dirty beggar asks you for money.

Why the personal attack. I have not got a bankroll of money quite the opposite, my home is very modest. My point and I know its a bit radical is that if someone earns a low wage, maybe, just maybe they have to take responsilibity for why that is the case, maybe they did not work at school, maybe they pissed about in their exams, maybe they are lazy, maybe they are poor workers, maybe they couldn't be bothered with dedicating to a career and spending weeks and months passing professional exams, maybe they deserve a low wage and if that is the case why should I and others be expected to feel sorry for them or subsidised their lifestyles when things are tough enough for people working 60 hours a week to just about afford to pay all the bills and taxes. I give quite a lot to others so the sleight that I don't give a f*** about anyone else is pretty insulting really
 




m20gull

Well-known member
Jun 10, 2004
3,471
Land of the Chavs
I have reconsidered my choice. I originally voted for the funeral but realise I was wrong. I won't use this vote to discuss the politics as that's been done enough and will concentrate on the fundamental question.

No, she should not have a state funeral. She was not head of state, she was a leader of a political party in a representative democracy where members of the public are chosen to represent us. She is not special, merely our representative, and therefore should not have state recognition.

I may well choose to mourn her passing but that is my personal choice.
 




London Pompous

Active member
Feb 16, 2008
660
My point and I know its a bit radical is that if someone earns a low wage, maybe, just maybe they have to take responsilibity for why that is the case, maybe they did not work at school, maybe they pissed about in their exams, maybe they are lazy, maybe they are poor workers, maybe they couldn't be bothered with dedicating to a career and spending weeks and months passing professional exams, maybe they deserve a low wage and if that is the case why should I and others be expected to feel sorry for them or subsidised their lifestyles when things are tough enough for people working 60 hours a week to just about afford to pay all the bills and taxes


.....or maybe their dad died when they were 7, they had to go to work at the age of 16 to help their mum bring up the family, worked for shit money (£30 a week), and then got a couple of lucky breaks, but never forgot those who didn't get those breaks. As for the list of taxes, I don't see Dave the Toff coming up with any ideas on how to improve public services for an ageing population whilst cutting taxes. I don't like Labour for getting involved in two wars, but the Tories supported them when the troops went in, so no one can take the moral high ground. A legacy of unemployment and underinvestment is hardly one to boast about either from Thatcher and Major.

They are ALL as bad as each other, neither party can hold its head high and claim to be all virtue and no bad decisions.
 




SULLY COULDNT SHOOT

Loyal2Family+Albion!
Sep 28, 2004
11,341
Izmir, Southern Turkey
Why the personal attack. I have not got a bankroll of money quite the opposite, my home is very modest. My point and I know its a bit radical is that if someone earns a low wage, maybe, just maybe they have to take responsilibity for why that is the case, maybe they did not work at school, maybe they pissed about in their exams, maybe they are lazy, maybe they are poor workers, maybe they couldn't be bothered with dedicating to a career and spending weeks and months passing professional exams, maybe they deserve a low wage and if that is the case why should I and others be expected to feel sorry for them or subsidised their lifestyles when things are tough enough for people working 60 hours a week to just about afford to pay all the bills and taxes. I give quite a lot to others so the sleight that I don't give a f*** about anyone else is pretty insulting really


As Us knows throuh PM, my comments were not supposed to be personal... just got a bit carried away. I apologise to Gareth publicly for that....although I do stand by my opinions.

Talking about the future of my child always makes me a bit edgy and adding Thatcher into the mix moves it from edgy to volcanic :)
 


Uncle Spielberg

Well-known member
Jul 6, 2003
43,043
Lancing
Apology accepted but PM's are meant to be personal and not posted on the main forum :thud:
 


Uncle Spielberg

Well-known member
Jul 6, 2003
43,043
Lancing
I now apologise to Sully as he did not post my PM but my comment :jester:











Taxi
 




SULLY COULDNT SHOOT

Loyal2Family+Albion!
Sep 28, 2004
11,341
Izmir, Southern Turkey
Why the personal attack. I have not got a bankroll of money quite the opposite, my home is very modest. My point and I know its a bit radical is that if someone earns a low wage, maybe, just maybe they have to take responsilibity for why that is the case, maybe they did not work at school, maybe they pissed about in their exams, maybe they are lazy, maybe they are poor workers, maybe they couldn't be bothered with dedicating to a career and spending weeks and months passing professional exams, maybe they deserve a low wage and if that is the case why should I and others be expected to feel sorry for them or subsidised their lifestyles when things are tough enough for people working 60 hours a week to just about afford to pay all the bills and taxes. I give quite a lot to others so the sleight that I don't give a f*** about anyone else is pretty insulting really

Witha calm mind....... all the maybes you point to or minority maybes.... I think in most cases the reality is most people, because of their background never had much of a chance to get out... yes there are those who have managed (I am one fot hem) but they are the exceptions and that's why we always use them as paragons.

Friend of mine is exceedingly clever but was abused as a kid. Had little self-respect until he was in his twenties and therefore was never able to take advantage of his education (having six siblings didnt help either). He hasnt been able to take full advantage of the State yet is expected to pay the same taxes as someone else who reaped the benefits.

Sorry, Garteh, I don't think so. In England we can only see through English-tinted sunglasses. Live in less fortunate counrtries and you get to see the other possible outcomes ... and even our possible future if we don't take for granted what we've got and moan about things that really are not worth tearing the country apart for.
 


mr sheen

Well-known member
Jan 17, 2008
1,563
So for the second consecutive day I open this thread to the disappointing news that Mrs T is still living.
 


SULLY COULDNT SHOOT

Loyal2Family+Albion!
Sep 28, 2004
11,341
Izmir, Southern Turkey




Simster

"the man's an arse"
Jul 7, 2003
54,813
Surrey
I can't be arsed with being drawn into another Thatcher argument or indeed read through this entire thread, so I'll limit myself to the thoughts that she was best friends with General Pinochet (directly responsible for an overthrowing an elected head of state and then the disappearing of over 2,000 of his countrymen) and famously went on record to state that Nelson Mandela was a terrorist in a feeble attempt to justify our trade ties with apartheid South Africa (whilst maintaining a friendship with Pic Botha).

For that alone, she is scum and always will be.
 




Icy Gull

Back on the rollercoaster
Jul 5, 2003
72,015
So for the second consecutive day I open this thread to the disappointing news that Mrs T is still living.

The only interest I have in this thread is whether it's gonna make 15 pages?:D
 


keaton

Big heart, hot blood and balls. Big balls
Nov 18, 2004
9,902
Why the personal attack. I have not got a bankroll of money quite the opposite, my home is very modest. My point and I know its a bit radical is that if someone earns a low wage, maybe, just maybe they have to take responsilibity for why that is the case, maybe they did not work at school, maybe they pissed about in their exams, maybe they are lazy, maybe they are poor workers, maybe they couldn't be bothered with dedicating to a career and spending weeks and months passing professional exams, maybe they deserve a low wage and if that is the case why should I and others be expected to feel sorry for them or subsidised their lifestyles when things are tough enough for people working 60 hours a week to just about afford to pay all the bills and taxes. I give quite a lot to others so the sleight that I don't give a f*** about anyone else is pretty insulting really

Now that is worthy of a personal attack. The problem with that is that some people have to do poorly paid jobs, because not everyone can do their dream jobs. People have to clean the streets and work in the service industry, they will never earn a decent wage.
 




Uncle Spielberg

Well-known member
Jul 6, 2003
43,043
Lancing
You did not read what I said or did but misinterpreted it to your own agenda. Yes what you say is true and those people need help but there are some people whose own situation is down to themselves, read it again.
 




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