Thatcher to be given a state funeral

[Storer68]

In 1945 the memory of Chruchill as "enemy of the working man" was still the popular impression . The Labour Party ran a strong campaign of returning troop education through the Workers Educational trust and their popular slogann was "What Price Churchill". Women who had been emancipated during the work were no longer prepared to accept his patronising attitute of female servitude and lack of opportunity to enter education or the workplace.
As Churchill's personal popularity remained high, Conservatives were confident of victory and based much of their election campaign on this, rather than propose new programmes. However people distinguished between Churchill and his party, a contrast which Labour repeatedly emphasised throughout the campaign.

In addition to the poor Conservative election strategy, Churchill went so far as to accuse Attlee of seeking to behave as a dictator, in spite of Attlee's service in Churchill's war cabinet. In the most famous incident of the campaign, Churchill's first election broadcast on June 4th backfired dramatically and memorably. Denouncing his former coalition partners, he declared that Labour "would have to fall back on some form of a Gestapo" to impose socialism on Britain. Attlee responded the next night by ironically thanking the prime minister for demonstrating to people the difference between Churchill the great wartime leader and peacetime politician, and argued the case for public control of industry



In 1951 he was too old and reactionary to be a hands on PM very much and in 1953 started to suffer from a series of strokes

 

[simmo]

I mean Blair was PM for nearly the same amount of time but what do you think we will be talking about changes he made to everyones life 20 years on? I mean real changes, I cannot think of a single one. His legacy will be Iraq....anything else?

QUOTE]


This the Labour PArty's top 50........ (number 50 is a bit thin I think)

Our top 50 achievements since being elected in 1997

1. Longest period of sustained low inflation since the 60s.

2. Low mortgage rates.

3. Introduced the National Minimum Wage and raised it to £5.52.

4. Over 14,000 more police in England and Wales.

5. Cut overall crime by 32 per cent.

6. Record levels of literacy and numeracy in schools.

7. Young people achieving some of the best ever results at 14, 16, and 18.

8. Funding for every pupil in England has doubled.

9. Employment is at its highest level ever.

10. Written off up to 100 per cent of debt owed by poorest countries.

11. 85,000 more nurses.

12. 32,000 more doctors.

13. Brought back matrons to hospital wards.

14. Devolved power to the Scottish Parliament.

15. Devolved power to the Welsh Assembly.

16. Dads now get paternity leave of 2 weeks for the first time.

17. NHS Direct offering free convenient patient advice.

18. Gift aid was worth £828 million to charities last year.

19. Restored city-wide government to London.

20. Record number of students in higher education.

21. Child benefit up 26 per cent since 1997.

22. Delivered 2,200 Sure Start Children’s Centres.

23. Introduced the Equality and Human Rights Commission.

24. £200 winter fuel payment to pensioners & up to £300 for over-80s.

25. On course to exceed our Kyoto target for reducing greenhouse gas emissions.

26. Restored devolved government to Northern Ireland.

27. Over 36,000 more teachers in England and 274,000 more support staff and teaching assistants.

28. All full time workers now have a right to 24 days paid holiday.

29. A million pensioners lifted out of poverty.

30. 600,000 children lifted out of relative poverty.

31. Introduced child tax credit giving more money to parents.

32. Scrapped Section 28 and introduced Civil Partnerships.

33. Brought over 1 million social homes up to standard.

34. Inpatient waiting lists down by over half a million since 1997.

35. Banned fox hunting.

36. Cleanest rivers, beaches, drinking water and air since before the industrial revolution.

37. Free TV licences for over-75s.

38. Banned fur farming and the testing of cosmetics on animals.

39. Free breast cancer screening for all women aged between 50-70.

40. Free off peak local bus travel for over-60s.

41. New Deal - helped over 1.8 million people into work.

42. Over 3 million child trust funds have been started.

43. Free eye test for over 60s.

44. More than doubled the number of apprenticeships.

45. Free entry to national museums and galleries.

46. Overseas aid budget more than doubled.

47. Heart disease deaths down by 150,000 and cancer deaths down by 50,000.

48. Cut long-term youth unemployment by 75 per cent.

49. Free nursery places for every three and four-year-olds.

50. Free fruit for most four to six-year-olds at school.


Tell us what you think

It is ironic that number 1 is the primary (and arguably sole) aim of moneterism, the very economic policy that Thatcher implemented, which was incredibly radical at the time (I saw a thread on here the other day that only Chile had this before Thatcher). Now it is the Labour party No 1 claim, this to me truly shows Thatcher's influence on politics today!

Also if you actually read these not many of these are real changes in the British way of life. They are just trumpeting good management (and talking about increases of police/nurses/doctors which are obviously just massive splurges of cash), that just seem to be short term and can and will and are already changing (No 5 for example). Not real changes i.e taming of the unions, home ownership for many, privitisation of state run industries etc.

In the top 10 only number 3 is a real achievement and even that for millions (whom are not on the lowest of wages) is an irrelevance.

 

[Uncle Spielberg]

The must of run out of ideas to make number 50 surely, a free banana what a fecking achievement.

 

[Southover Street Seagull]

It is ironic that number 1 is the primary (and arguably sole) aim of moneterism, the very economic policy that Thatcher implemented, which was incredibly radical at the time (I saw a thread on here the other day that only Chile had this before Thatcher). Now it is the Labour party No 1 claim, this to me truly shows Thatcher's influence on politics today!

Also if you actually read these not many of these are real changes in the British way of life. They are just trumpeting good management (and talking about increases of police/nurses/doctors which are obviously just massive splurges of cash), that just seem to be short term and can and will and are already changing (No 5 for example). Not real changes i.e taming of the unions, home ownership for many, privitisation of state run industries etc.

In the top 10 only number 3 is a real achievement and even that for millions (whom are not on the lowest of wages) is an irrelevance.

Well pointed about the Monetarism bit, and people on here call New Labour left wing?!

 

[Alex Alex Dawson oo! oo!]

If you don't have wars going on in two foreign countries, you may be able to afford the things you mention?!!
The other thing that I mentioned is that the money gained from the sale of council houses is not allowed to be used to build new council/social housing. I'm not sure if I am correct on this, does anybody know about this?

That was the case when my mother in law was a district councillor during the 80's and 90's. In fact LA's had to keep this money on deposit as Central Gov't wouldn't let them spend it on anything.
I don't know what the situation is today.

 

[hans kraay fan club]

In the top 10 only number 3 is a real achievement and even that for millions (whom are not on the lowest of wages) is an irrelevance.

1. Longest period of sustained low inflation since the 60s.

2. Low mortgage rates.

4. Over 14,000 more police in England and Wales.

5. Cut overall crime by 32 per cent.

6. Record levels of literacy and numeracy in schools.

7. Young people achieving some of the best ever results at 14, 16, and 18.

8. Funding for every pupil in England has doubled.

9. Employment is at its highest level ever.

10. Written off up to 100 per cent of debt owed by poorest countries.

So you don't consider any of these to be 'achievements' then? I would see numbers 5 and 6, very much in that light.

 

[hans kraay fan club]

The must of run out of ideas to make number 50 surely, a free banana what a fecking achievement.

It is a small thing isn't it? Teaching 5-7 year olds about nutrition and healthy eating. I don't know why they bother.

 

[simmo]

1. Longest period of sustained low inflation since the 60s.

2. Low mortgage rates.

4. Over 14,000 more police in England and Wales.

5. Cut overall crime by 32 per cent.

6. Record levels of literacy and numeracy in schools.

7. Young people achieving some of the best ever results at 14, 16, and 18.

8. Funding for every pupil in England has doubled.

9. Employment is at its highest level ever.

10. Written off up to 100 per cent of debt owed by poorest countries.

So you don't consider any of these to be 'achievements' then? I would see numbers 5 and 6, very much in that light.

They claim that, but do you believe them. I mean do you honestly believe number 5?

 

[hans kraay fan club]

Do I believe that the overall crime rate has fallen? Yes.

Do I also think knife crime is a serious problem in some communities? Yes.

Guns? Down

Overall violent crime? Down

Daily Mail outrage? Rising daily...

 

[Southover Street Seagull]

Thatcher was and is too divisive to warrant a state funeral, just let he family bury her when she has gone. Churchill was unique and that is why he got a state funeral.

 

[Storer68]

They claim that, but do you believe them. I mean do you honestly believe number 5?

well, arrests at the Goldstone vs arrests at withdean..........

1997 four in one match (and on the pitch too!)
Four fans were arrested, and FA spokesman Steve Double said: "We are very concerned at the initial reports of players being attacked by fans. We will await the reports from the match officials, and if necessary the police too.

"We will also consider allegations of possible incitement by players."

Orient boss Tommy Taylor fumed: "Brighton's manager Steve Gritt is a mate of mine. But if I was at the FA, I'd chuck them out of the League for this." And chairman Barry Hearn said: "The security was appalling. This could be the death-knell for Brighton."

2007
Arrests at Brighton and Hove Albion games fell dramatically last year, according to annual Home Office figures.

Only 13 Seagulls fans were apprehended by police, compared to 32 the year before.

Twelve of the arrests took place at away games while one happened at the Withdean stadium.advertisementFive of the arrests were for public order offences and five for alcohol-related offences. One fan was detained for violent disorder, one for throwing a missile and one for possessing an offensive weapon.

The figures appear to show the results of a highly successful clampdown by police and the club.

 

[Alex Alex Dawson oo! oo!]

They claim that, but do you believe them. I mean do you honestly believe number 5?

That's a different point but why shouldn't I?
No.26 - Restoration of a Devolved NI Government would be near the top on my list - although I'd refer to it slightly differently. Something like "Instigation of a Representative Devolved NI Government" and the GF Agreement is probably the first real attempt to settle the UK/Ireland disput since partition imo.

 

[Storer68]

I , too, would have thought that implimenting the Good Friday agreement and the following ten years peace in N.Ireland is a fantastic achievement warranting slightly more credit than it gets here. for instance 17. NHS Direct offering free convenient patient advice

 

[Barrel of Fun]

1. Longest period of sustained low inflation since the 60s.

2. Low mortgage rates.

4. Over 14,000 more police in England and Wales.

5. Cut overall crime by 32 per cent.

6. Record levels of literacy and numeracy in schools.

7. Young people achieving some of the best ever results at 14, 16, and 18.

8. Funding for every pupil in England has doubled.

9. Employment is at its highest level ever.

10. Written off up to 100 per cent of debt owed by poorest countries.

So you don't consider any of these to be 'achievements' then? I would see numbers 5 and 6, very much in that light.

This didn't happen overnight. The Economy did not suddenly flourish under the labour govt. The seeds were sowed by Major, Clarke and the Tories. Whilst Labour were responsible for marshalling the economy, the Tories do not get the credit they deserve.

 

[Barrel of Fun]

If you don't have wars going on in two foreign countries, you may be able to afford the things you mention?!!
The other thing that I mentioned is that the money gained from the sale of council houses is not allowed to be used to build new council/social housing. I'm not sure if I am correct on this, does anybody know about this?

Interesting article:

BBC ON THIS DAY | 20 | 1979: Council tenants will have 'right to buy'

I don't have any figures in front of me, but I do find it unusual when people state that houses should not have been sold, industries should not have been nationalised, we should have invested in our manufacturing etc. etc. when perhaps there was not the money to do so at the time.

 

[Tom Hark Preston Park]

A state funeral would be in some ways fitting. Even from beyond the grave, the evil bitch will be violently dividing the country.

It's what the mad cow would have wanted

 

[Lord Bracknell]

A state funeral would be in some ways fitting. Even from beyond the grave, the evil bitch will be violently dividing the country.

It's what the mad cow would have wanted

This could turn out to be the most EXCITING state occasion in Britain since the coronation of King George IV, in 1821, when he banned the Queen (Caroline of Brunswick) from attending.

Sadly for public order and decency, she did - with a huge mob of supporters. There was fighting in the streets when the King's men slammed the door of Westminster Abbey in her face.

Thatcher's funeral could easily lead to similar trouble. What I find difficult to understand is why someone in authority hasn't already worked that out.

 

[Alex Alex Dawson oo! oo!]

A state funeral would be in some ways fitting. Even from beyond the grave, the evil bitch will be violently dividing the country.

It's what the mad cow would have wanted

I personally think that a state funeral, whether justified or not, is ill advised and it could turn into a more unpleasant occasion for her family than they might expect.

 

[Tom Hark Preston Park]

I personally think that a state funeral, whether justified or not, is ill advised and it could turn into a more unpleasant occasion for her family than they might expect.

There will be whole areas of the country, nay whole COUNTRIES, wanting nothing to do with it, other than to :dance: on the evil bitch's grave

 

[Uncle Spielberg]

You don't like her much do you Tom ?.