Sven - will the penny finally DROP now for the Swedish Slap ?

[Rusthall Seagull]

I thought England would play well tonight because the side that was picked finally had some BALANCE about it. Every man in that team knew EXACTLY what their job was.

I'm not surprised at how well King played - he is a great player.

Another interesting point was the massive cheer when Terry was given the armband. I think the point has been reached when he is now the people's choice for captain.

If Sven had balls he's give the captain's armband to Terry, play Beckham wide right and tell him to stay there and get crosses in, and stick Gerrard on the left to see if he can do a job.

Spot on....I seem to remember England playing very well with Gerrard on the left....

 

[Uncle Buck]

Hmmm, not sure what game you watch at times Easy but some of what you say rings true. King played well enough, did the job asked of him, kept it simple etc, but he did looked like a centre back in midfield, with flash backs to Carlton Palmer. We do need to play a holding midfielder, but it needs to come from one of Carrick, Butt, Hargreaves or Parker. What King did last night was probably get his name down on the squad list for next summer simply as he offers options and if you are holding a 1-0 lead he is the player that you can bring on to protect the defence and slip in as a 3rd centre back when needed.

If they go down the holding midfielder route, the player that should be the fall guy is Lampard. He scored last night, but other than that he is never involved in the game. He is a one trick pony in that he can get from box to box like Platt but there is not much more to him. Gerrard can do that as well, but has more to his game and one of the best passing ranges in Europe.

SWP, hmmm, flatters to deceive. He runs at people, so people get excited about this, but he did not deliver the telling crosses that Beckham can do and he does not look up enough. What he did do was hold the touchline, so he saw some of the ball.

Terry the peoples choice as Captain. Do me a favour whoever said that. He was at fault for their goal, again, as he did not pick his man up. He does not mark tightly enough and does not have the pace to recover his mistakes. If fit any of Campbell, Ferdinand and Woodgate should be selected before him.

The real difference last night was Rooney, with the ball at his feet there was always the chance something might happen. The Polish defence bricked it everytime he ran at them and Owen looked to find space as he knew the ball was not going to be airbourne.

Next game is Argentina in Geneva and it is vital that if fit Carrick is given a game in the holding role and that Kirkland is given some time between the posts as going into next summer with your number 2 keeper having not played international football would not be a good idea.

Oh by the way we won the group....

 

[Marshy]

i disagree, SWP at times had 3 men on him such was his threat, and was a constant menace down the right hand side, true enough his final ball isnt always upto par but this will come in time and i beleive he deserves another start there.

Sure Beckahms delivery is much better but how often is he actually in thh right sided position to make such crosses ?
Hardly ever.

SWP is only going to get better which is something that cant be said of the current custodian of that position.

As for Lampard being a one trick pony.... what a blow that is having a midfielder who scores every other game.......
He has far more to his game than that ,his passing last night i thought was of the highest order.

Im still a believer that Lampard and Gerrard can play together in midfield and do it well, i beleive the main problem they have is the likes of Beckham and Cole from time to time drifting into the middle of the park congesting things, all the more reason to persist with SWP on teh right in my opinion.

 

[Uncle Buck]

i disagree, SWP at times had 3 men on him such was his threat, and was a constant menace down the right hand side, true enough his final ball isnt always upto par but this will come in time and i beleive he deserves another start there.

Sure Beckahms delivery is much better but how often is he actually in thh right sided position to make such crosses ?
Hardly ever.

SWP is only going to get better which is something that cant be said of the current custodian of that position.

As for Lampard being a one trick pony.... what a blow that is having a midfielder who scores every other game.......
He has far more to his game than that ,his passing last night i thought was of the highest order.

Im still a believer that Lampard and Gerrard can play together in midfield and do it well, i beleive the main problem they have is the likes of Beckham and Cole from time to time drifting into the middle of the park congesting things, all the more reason to persist with SWP on teh right in my opinion.

If SWP cannot deliver a telling ball what is the point of playing him out wide? May as well stick him through the middle and let him run about.

Gerrard is twice the player Lampard will ever be. But Fat Frank, like Platt used to, scores goals.

 

[Easy 10]

Re: Re: Re: Re: Sven - will the penny finally DROP now for the Swedish Slap ?

Yet suddenly YOU have identified that Ledley King is that man.

Where have I claimed that ?

 

[CHAPPERS]

Just got it from the TONE of your first post.



''England were TRANSFORMED tonight, and you know why ?

Ledley King.''

''The fella just oozes class. So much composure on the ball, right place at the right time, always in space to receive it, anticipation to intercept and block, exquisite simplicity on the ball, and gives the whole team that balance and shape its been so desperately lacking for so long now.''

Just kind of suggests that it's King, NOT the holding midfielder, was the difference.

''The biggest factor for me tonight though was King.''

 

[Easy 10]

I've never claimed prior to last night that Ledley King was the man to bring in for the holding role. But I (along with many, many people) have been saying that we NEED a player to take that role in the team. Its not rocket science really.

Where I WILL give Sven credit here is in his selection of King, as I thought a more obvious choice would've been someone like Carrick/Parker - but on last nights performance, I don't think they could've done any better than Ledley did.

So to Sven for getting it spot on. Just hope to christ he sticks with it.

 

[Easy 10]

Hmmm, not sure what game you watch at times Easy but some of what you say rings true. King played well enough, did the job asked of him, kept it simple etc, but he did looked like a centre back in midfield, with flash backs to Carlton Palmer. We do need to play a holding midfielder, but it needs to come from one of Carrick, Butt, Hargreaves or Parker. What King did last night was probably get his name down on the squad list for next summer simply as he offers options and if you are holding a 1-0 lead he is the player that you can bring on to protect the defence and slip in as a 3rd centre back when needed.

If they go down the holding midfielder route, the player that should be the fall guy is Lampard. He scored last night, but other than that he is never involved in the game. He is a one trick pony in that he can get from box to box like Platt but there is not much more to him. Gerrard can do that as well, but has more to his game and one of the best passing ranges in Europe.

SWP, hmmm, flatters to deceive. He runs at people, so people get excited about this, but he did not deliver the telling crosses that Beckham can do and he does not look up enough. What he did do was hold the touchline, so he saw some of the ball.

Terry the peoples choice as Captain. Do me a favour whoever said that. He was at fault for their goal, again, as he did not pick his man up. He does not mark tightly enough and does not have the pace to recover his mistakes. If fit any of Campbell, Ferdinand and Woodgate should be selected before him.

The real difference last night was Rooney, with the ball at his feet there was always the chance something might happen. The Polish defence bricked it everytime he ran at them and Owen looked to find space as he knew the ball was not going to be airbourne.

Next game is Argentina in Geneva and it is vital that if fit Carrick is given a game in the holding role and that Kirkland is given some time between the posts as going into next summer with your number 2 keeper having not played international football would not be a good idea.

Oh by the way we won the group....

Where I would agree with you is that I think praise is sometimes heaped onto John Terry a little too easily - I don't think he's a fixture in the team just yet.

But Ledley King "flashbacks to Carlton Palmer" ?
Lampard as the holding midfielder ?
Lampard a one trick pony not involved in the game ?

Sorry Uncle B, but if thats your reading of last nights game, then we truley must have been watching a completely different match, and our opinions (as usual) are POLES apart.

(do you see what I did there ?)

 

[CHAPPERS]

''Sven - will the penny finally DROP now for the Swedish Slap ?''

Is the title of this thread. Maybe if you used less aggressive wording you wouldn't get into these petty squabbles over Eriksson.

The wording of this thread suggests that he got it right playing King yet you still cal him a 'Swedish slap'.

RASCIST.

 

[Uncle Buck]

Where I would agree with you is that I think praise is sometimes heaped onto John Terry a little too easily - I don't think he's a fixture in the team just yet.

But Ledley King "flashbacks to Carlton Palmer" ?
Lampard as the holding midfielder ?
Lampard a one trick pony not involved in the game ?

Sorry Uncle B, but if thats your reading of last nights game, then we truley must have been watching a completely different match, and our opinions (as usual) are POLES apart.

(do you see what I did there ?)

I think with Lampard there are issues and he is rated so highly due to his goal scoring, but his all round game is not a patch on what Gerrard can bring.

King is not a midfielder, he is a centre back playing in midfield. He did what was asked of him last night, but why play him out of position, when you technically have a better option in Carrick available (when fit).

 

[enigma]

I think with Lampard there are issues and he is rated so highly due to his goal scoring, but his all round game is not a patch on what Gerrard can bring.

King is not a midfielder, he is a centre back playing in midfield. He did what was asked of him last night, but why play him out of position, when you technically have a better option in Carrick available (when fit).

Carrick cant tackle as well as King. I'd rather have Scott Parker than Carrick.

Lampard might not be as technically gifted as Gerrard but he's more efficient in his use of the ball.

 

[Easy 10]

If I didn't get into petty squabbles Chappers, I'd have bugger all else to do all day.

Sven hasn't absolved himself yet in my eyes. He got it RIGHT last night because he was forced into it. I'll give him credit for making the right choices, but we both know that if it was up to him, we'd have had the usual Beckham-Lampard-Gerrard-Cole across the middle, and the usual stuttering performance with all the same old problems, which probably would have been enough to just about grind out a result. At least last night we finally entertained as well - I thought that was quite refreshing.

My fear is that he won't want to upset Beckham or Gerrard though, and they'll be back in the team as soon as he can get them in again. Then we're back to square 1.

 

[Uncle Buck]

Carrick cant tackle as well as King. I'd rather have Scott Parker than Carrick.

Lampard might not be as technically gifted as Gerrard but he's more efficient in his use of the ball.

But how much of that Lampard argument is down to the fact that Gerrard is never allowed to play in his natural role for England?

 

[Easy 10]

I think with Lampard there are issues and he is rated so highly due to his goal scoring, but his all round game is not a patch on what Gerrard can bring.

Gerrard can showboat with the 60 yard passes at times, but more often than not it doesn't come off. And we've already got Beckham obsessed with pinging the Hollywood balls everywhere. Gerrards just not been doing it for England for some time now, so I don't see how you can claim his all-round game is more effective than Lampard. Goalscoring midfielders are gold-dust, and totally indespensible, specially when the setup is right behind them, as it was last night.

King is not a midfielder, he is a centre back playing in midfield. He did what was asked of him last night, but why play him out of position, when you technically have a better option in Carrick available (when fit).

I dunno why you have to pigeonhole King into the "centreback" role. He is an adaptable player who is adept in defence as well as in a holding midfield role. Just because he plays as a centreback at Spurs, doesn't mean he's not fully capable of adjusting his game and playing just in front of the defence as well. Centreback is just a label, its what he's CAPABLE of that matters.

He reads the game
He anticipates
He blocks and tackles well
He finds space
He doesn't give the ball away
He keeps it simple

What more do you want from him in that role ? If he can do it (as he's proved) then why look elsewhere just because someone else is labelled "a midfielder".

 

[enigma]

But how much of that Lampard argument is down to the fact that Gerrard is never allowed to play in his natural role for England?

Could well be.

I'm also basing it on the Premiership. I think Gerrard is technically a better player but I think Lampard is a more intelligent player. Its a tough choice.I think Gerrard still has a tendency to play ridiculous passes some time however.

 

[Hannibal smith]

Hmmm, not sure what game you watch at times Easy but some of what you say rings true. King played well enough, did the job asked of him, kept it simple etc, but he did looked like a centre back in midfield, with flash backs to Carlton Palmer. We do need to play a holding midfielder, but it needs to come from one of Carrick, Butt, Hargreaves or Parker. What King did last night was probably get his name down on the squad list for next summer simply as he offers options and if you are holding a 1-0 lead he is the player that you can bring on to protect the defence and slip in as a 3rd centre back when needed.

If they go down the holding midfielder route, the player that should be the fall guy is Lampard. He scored last night, but other than that he is never involved in the game. He is a one trick pony in that he can get from box to box like Platt but there is not much more to him. Gerrard can do that as well, but has more to his game and one of the best passing ranges in Europe.

SWP, hmmm, flatters to deceive. He runs at people, so people get excited about this, but he did not deliver the telling crosses that Beckham can do and he does not look up enough. What he did do was hold the touchline, so he saw some of the ball.

Terry the peoples choice as Captain. Do me a favour whoever said that. He was at fault for their goal, again, as he did not pick his man up. He does not mark tightly enough and does not have the pace to recover his mistakes. If fit any of Campbell, Ferdinand and Woodgate should be selected before him.

The real difference last night was Rooney, with the ball at his feet there was always the chance something might happen. The Polish defence bricked it everytime he ran at them and Owen looked to find space as he knew the ball was not going to be airbourne.

Next game is Argentina in Geneva and it is vital that if fit Carrick is given a game in the holding role and that Kirkland is given some time between the posts as going into next summer with your number 2 keeper having not played international football would not be a good idea.

Oh by the way we won the group....

I think I disagree with more or less everything here. Firstly John Terry. He was less at fault for the goal than Luke Young (ball watching) and Rio (Poor Clearance staright to the Polish player). He should be on the team through leadership skills alone above Ferdinand who cant seem to do anything without being shouted at (Why Gary Neville is also quite important)

If Gerrard is so good, When was his last good performance in an England Shirt? I can't even remember it. He was poor in Euro 2004 and has been poor since. On England form there is no way you can currently play Gerrard over Lampard.

and Rooney. Some fantastic skills last night but his final ball wasn't there at times. No more so than SWP in fact.

One thing we all look to agree on is that a holding midfielder brings the best out of the midfield. Lets hope we persist with it whether that be Carrick, King or Parker.

 

[enigma]

Plus, as Easy says, we already have someone spraying long passes in Gerrard. Lampard may have a better range of short passing which may benefit the team more.

 

[Uncle Buck]

Gerrard can showboat with the 60 yard passes at times, but more often than not it doesn't come off. And we've already got Beckham obsessed with pinging the Hollywood balls everywhere. Gerrards just not been doing it for England for some time now, so I don't see how you can claim his all-round game is more effective than Lampard. Goalscoring midfielders are gold-dust, and totally indespensible, specially when the setup is right behind them, as it was last night.


I dunno why you have to pigeonhole King into the "centreback" role. He is an adaptable player who is adept in defence as well as in a holding midfield role. Just because he plays as a centreback at Spurs, doesn't mean he's not fully capable of adjusting his game and playing just in front of the defence as well. Centreback is just a label, its what he's CAPABLE of that matters.

He reads the game
He anticipates
He blocks and tackles well
He finds space
He doesn't give the ball away
He keeps it simple

What more do you want from him in that role ? If he can do it (as he's proved) then why look elsewhere just because someone else is labelled "a midfielder".

My point with Gerrard is give him a run in the friendlies in the role he plays for Liverpool, rather than as the deeper midfielder and see what he does.

King is a centre back, if you ask King what his position is he is a centre back. Carrick played well in the USA but injuries have got him so far this season. Again in the friendlies lets see what he can do.

 

[Uncle Buck]

I think I disagree with more or less everything here. Firstly John Terry. He was less at fault for the goal than Luke Young (ball watching) and Rio (Poor Clearance staright to the Polish player). He should be on the team through leadership skills alone above Ferdinand who cant seem to do anything without being shouted at (Why Gary Neville is also quite important)

If Gerrard is so good, When was his last good performance in an England Shirt? I can't even remember it. He was poor in Euro 2004 and has been poor since. On England form there is no way you can currently play Gerrard over Lampard.

and Rooney. Some fantastic skills last night but his final ball wasn't there at times. No more so than SWP in fact.

One thing we all look to agree on is that a holding midfielder brings the best out of the midfield. Lets hope we persist with it whether that be Carrick, King or Parker.

I think the Gerrard issue comes down to the fact he plays out of position due to natural ability which Lampard has less of. Play him in his Liverpool role for England and see how he performs.

 

[Easy 10]

King is a footballer. He'll do as he's TOLD, and like it.

I'm not saying other options shouldn't be explored, but at the moment I think King has made that position his own and should be considered first choice.