Strong words at the Turner prize last night

[ROSM]

Again ?? Anyway, how about just teaching kids to read and write correctly , somebody has to be a plumber /bricklayer/ lorry driver etc and in my humble opinion dynamic , exciting and stimulating lessons should be superseded by ones that actually teach skills they'll need in the workplace , i.e reading , ritiarithmetic, as for your claims about exam results improving along with literacy and numeracy, i'l humbly suyou'retalking bollocks there , a mate is a secondary school teacher who has just left a state school to go and work in a private one , he tells me otherwise, perhaps these figures are manipulated, you know they are , and it suits you to prolong the fallacy as it would make you look bad if you didnt ?

Interesting point you make about plumbers and bricklayers because as a second language is Parr of the ebacc, you would expect a relevant language to be included. Sadly Mr Gove has been pushing for Latin and Greek as they are 'good solid languages and are still valid today in medicine and law'. Surely we should be focussing on a wider set, perhaps including those in which trade will be significant in the next 40 year's such as Spanish, mandarin or cantonese etc

 

[Herr Tubthumper]

Yes because schools have been turning out some absolute superstars over the last few 20 odd years havent they ?

BBC NEWS | UK | Education | Teens 'cannot function in work'

Your posts seem to be missing the point a little and probably part of some wider "gggggr, public sector workers" grievance. Getting back on track, do you believe Gove's plans are a good idea or not?

 

[Herr Tubthumper]

oooohhhh i never, strong words at the turner prize eh !! what did jude do, threaten to bash him with his man bag ??

Never underestimate the power of a man and his manbag. Or a man with a girls name for that matter

 

[Herr Tubthumper]

Interesting point you make about plumbers and bricklayers because as a second language is Parr of the ebacc, you would expect a relevant language to be included. Sadly Mr Gove has been pushing for Latin and Greek as they are 'good solid languages and are still valid today in medicine and law'. Surely we should be focussing on a wider set, perhaps including those in which trade will be significant in the next 40 year's such as Spanish, mandarin or cantonese etc

Is Latin useful in medicine? I know there are plenty of Latin terms and words which are used but do you actually need to learn the language? Or can they simply be thought of as a technical vocabulary which most professions have?

 

[BLOCK F]

I think what is being mooted here is critical analysis, which I reckon would be beyond most 14/15/16 year olds due to their psychological limitations. They get their heads filled with 'facts' for GCSE's, they then have to compare and contrast different theories for humanities type A levels, and then have to apply critical analysis at BA level in written and arts disciplines. Don't pile pressure onto underdeveloped minds too soon

Surely critical analysis should be a fundamental part of the education programme.What makes you think that 14/15/16 year olds do not have the mental capacity to undertake such thought processes?

 

[fire&skill]

Cultural Literacy - bloody hell. Facts, facts, facts (or what the government wants children to know) with no skills to investigate the reasons behind the facts. Learn a poem by heart, know the dates of all the Kings and Queens, be able to recite your times tables - hey presto - a fully developed and well rounded individual. If the conversation is about comparative lengths of reigns of our monarchs, nobody will be embarrassed.

Except that the skills needed to apply the knowledge, to develop individuality and creativity, are being excised from the curriculum by an idealogue who wants to return us to Victorian values where there is a place for everyone, and everyone knows their place.

A skills based curriculum provides a broad and balanced learning platform that gives children the opportunity to broaden their understanding, develop their talents and crucially, to from their own beliefs, question what is put to them and apply the skills they learn in an imaginative and creative way. Gove seems to think that 'one size fits all', and is suspicious of educational styles that he does not understand, and feels are subversive.

I work as a teacher in a school where we have worked hard to design an exciting, innovative and relevant skills based curriculum. We won't be giving this up without a fight.

Yep - an excellent post. I fear for my son who in Year 6 is tasked with making sure he 'learns his times table' as homework. The creativity and pupil engagement of the last few years in his school seems to have gone. Very worrying as he makes the move into secondary education.

 

[Lord Bracknell]

Yes because schools have been turning out some absolute superstars over the last few 20 odd years havent they ?

That's the 20 years that have passed since Kenneth Baker decided that Central Government should be directing education, rather than teachers working with the support of Local Education Authorities.

 

[Southern Scouse]

Shame no-one ever seems to ask the kids what they want.

 

[BLOCK F]

Yep - an excellent post. I fear for my son who in Year 6 is tasked with making sure he 'learns his times table' as homework. The creativity and pupil engagement of the last few years in his school seems to have gone. Very worrying as he makes the move into secondary education.

Shame the creativity and pupil engagement seems to have gone from your boy's school,but I would suggest that learning one's tables is still pretty useful and not a waste of time.

 

[BLOCK F]

Shame no-one ever seems to ask the kids what they want.

Probably more 'inset days'.

 

[fire&skill]

Shame the creativity and pupil engagement seems to have gone from your boy's school,but I would suggest that learning one's tables is still pretty useful and not a waste of time.

It's the rote learning side of it that's the worry - not the actual learning of it - as Mr/Mrs Mahone said, "Learn a poem by heart, know the dates of all the Kings and Queens, be able to recite your times tables - hey presto - a fully developed and well rounded individual."

 

[Nibble]

Quote Originally Posted by bushy View Post
Yes because schools have been turning out some absolute superstars over the last few 20 odd years havent they ?


Yes they have actually. So pre 1990 we didn't have bad schools? This tory government is going to set this country back to, well back to the days of Thatcher. Labour had a good attitude to the arts, they supported and created and innovated, some of their ideas messed up but that's the nature of the arts anyway. Labour creeated support for pupils and teachers in schools and brought in legislation to provide SENCO's, and other resources. The Torys are dismantling all of this good work.

I am not exaggerrating when I say the Tory's will not be happy until they have ring fenced London, priced everyone else out and excluded an under priviliged population from art and culture, while the rest of us live in f***ing shipping containers with no access to the countryside as they have either sold it off or it's being used by the queen to run her fat over priviliged family on, no benefits for the out of work and only jobs that exist are to serve the Tory's and their priviliged mates. I'm not joking either, if we have another decade of this Tory dictatorship this country and most in it are going to be utterly on our arses.

 

[BLOCK F]

Quote Originally Posted by bushy View Post
Yes because schools have been turning out some absolute superstars over the last few 20 odd years havent they ?


Yes they have actually. So pre 1990 we didn't have bad schools? This tory government is going to set this country back to, well back to the days of Thatcher. Labour had a good attitude to the arts, they supported and created and innovated, some of their ideas messed up but that's the nature of the arts anyway. Labour creeated support for pupils and teachers in schools and brought in legislation to provide SENCO's, and other resources. The Torys are dismantling all of this good work.

I am not exaggerrating when I say the Tory's will not be happy until they have ring fenced London, priced everyone else out and excluded an under priviliged population from art and culture, while the rest of us live in f***ing shipping containers with no access to the countryside as they have either sold it off or it's being used by the queen to run her fat over priviliged family on, no benefits for the out of work and only jobs that exist are to serve the Tory's and their priviliged mates. I'm not joking either, if we have another decade of this Tory dictatorship this country and most in it are going to be utterly on our arses.

'Not exaggerating'?
Pull the other one Nibble!

 

[Nibble]

'Not exaggerating'?
Pull the other one Nibble!

Well maybe a tad but if you look at what the Tory's are trying to do and have done already and they continue this for another decade it is not going to be a very nice place for the average man on the street.

 

[BLOCK F]

Well maybe a tad but if you look at what the Tory's are trying to do and have done already and they continue this for another decade it is not going to be a very nice place for the average man on the street.

Don't you mean 'the average man in the shipping container'?

 

[otk]

Surely critical analysis should be a fundamental part of the education programme.What makes you think that 14/15/16 year olds do not have the mental capacity to undertake such thought processes?

I think 14/15/16 year olds have enough to contend with, what with puberty and oedipal/elektra complexes. I'm all for them learning to express themselves, but as in any class of those age groups, there are going to be some that are more articulate than others, and it could be a counter-productive process with wall-flower types feeling embarrassed etc. There are always different levels of ability, and sensitivity should be exercised

 

[Pogue Mahone]

Shame no-one ever seems to ask the kids what they want.

A very good point - at many schools children are part of the planning process, certainly at Primary level. Consulting the children on what they'd like to learn, which aspects they'd be particularly interested in finding out about and what skills they'd like to acquire is increasingly common, and produces some excellent learning joureys. This is obviously in line with National Curriculum attainment targets and the need to provide a broad and balanced curriculum, so that all relevant skills are touched upon.

This, along with being absolutely open with the children at assessment level, talking through each strand of each attainment target, giving the children ownership of their learning so that they know exactly what they need to do to improve and move on - all these things help to give children a love of learning, and they are more likely to make good progress in all curriculum areas.

 

[rosscrudos]

I am also a teacher, and while lessons should be made relevant and interesting, kids need to learn that the only way to learn any skill is through repetition. In australia, education has lurched too far away from 'traditional' education (The three r's) to a more modern approach of inquiry learning. Inquiry learning (where students discover things for themselves) fails because students do not have the appropriate levels of reading and writing! As someone else said there has to be a balance.

Also teachers often get the respect they deserve, in Finland the teachers are experts and thus get respected as such. In Australia the teachers are the perfect example of the saying 'you pay peanuts, you get monkeys'.

 

[BadFish]

I am also a teacher, and while lessons should be made relevant and interesting, kids need to learn that the only way to learn any skill is through repetition. In australia, education has lurched too far away from 'traditional' education (The three r's) to a more modern approach of inquiry learning. Inquiry learning (where students discover things for themselves) fails because students do not have the appropriate levels of reading and writing! As someone else said there has to be a balance.

Also teachers often get the respect they deserve, in Finland the teachers are experts and thus get respected as such. In Australia the teachers are the perfect example of the saying 'you pay peanuts, you get monkeys'.

Oo oo oo. Ah ah ah . Oo oo oo ahhhhhhhhhh

 

[User removed 4]

Your posts seem to be missing the point a little and probably part of some wider "gggggr, public sector workers" grievance. Getting back on track, do you believe Gove's plans are a good idea or not?

yes i do.