Strictly 'race row'

[Tooting Gull]

I'm surprised he hasn't gone already. It wasn't 'in private', it was in front of professional camera crew, lighting, sound people etc. If you made a comment like that in a pub and you happened to have Asian friends who thought it was funny, you'd probably get away with it. If you're in a massive show like that, you really should know better. It's a Ron Atkinson moment, and I suspect the same fate beckons.

One thing I would say - if the BBC doesn't fire him it will have made a big rod for its own back for the future. It will look like they make special allowances for a star of their big flagship show, because you can be sure that on another show, he would have been sacked. That's why I think someone right at the top may intervene.

 

[Pavilionaire]

The question is not "is it racist" but "should the Beeb sack him".

 

[auschr]

Now, I agree that if somebody has said something offensive they should be punished.

However, having looked into this, I have discovered that the comments were not broadcast. Yet the BBC has received 281 complaints regarding this issue. Before the issue was plastered over the papers they had received only 63 complaints, meaning that other news sources are possibly to blame for whipping up so much anger. This remids me of Brand/Ross-gate, where the overwhelming majority of complaints were not from Radio 2 listeners, but by people that had subsequently seen the story in the press.

Whilst I think that the comments were unjustified, does anyone else think that there seems to be a current fashion for complaining to the Beeb?

What are your thoughts on the issue?

Does it matter if they saw it? IF there was someone the Beeb appealing to Nazis and Holocaust deniers but I didn't see the programme, I shouldn't be allowed to complain? Where is the logic in there?

 

[Common as Mook]

Why? because its a subject you personally feel strongly about , it should be dealt with more severely ? I can remember around the same time a s the ron atkinson/desailly row, billy connolly made a very public joke in very bad taste about ken bigley who was decapitated in iraq, yet hes back on TV and ron atkinson is still persona non grata, i know that i think connolly's comments were equally worthy of banishment from tv, sadly the tv establishment dont agree.

Maybe I worded it poorly. The Ken Bigley thing is obviously abhorrent; I was commenting on the fact that this, IMHO, should be looked upon more harshly than the Brand/Ross gubbins as it involved racial abuse.

 

[clapham_gull]

Why? because its a subject you personally feel strongly about , it should be dealt with more severely ? I can remember around the same time a s the ron atkinson/desailly row, billy connolly made a very public joke in very bad taste about ken bigley who was decapitated in iraq, yet hes back on TV and ron atkinson is still persona non grata, i know that i think connolly's comments were equally worthy of banishment from tv, sadly the tv establishment dont agree.

Bad examples I'm afraid.

Big Ron has appeared in a number of shows since his unfortunate slip, the latest being Celebrity Wife Swap on Channel Four.

Not bad for an ex football pundit.

It was in that programme that Ron apologised properly for the very first time. Sadly for him it wasn't picked up by the newspapers.

Billy Connolly's stupid remark was made in a untelevised comedy performance, which surprisingly the audience reacted to very very badly.

He was loudly booed, which was a story in itself.

In my opinion, if you go and see a live comedy performance you sometimes have to put your "political correctness" to one side.

 

[Pavilionaire]

In this instance it's been established he's used the words 'paki' and 'terrorist'. He's a big star and role model, there were lots of witnesses.

Based on previous history of celebs doing this sort of thing the Beeb seem almost obliged to sack him. This might be the biggest competition he's had on the show - fighting to save his job.

Itr seems that only the Royal Family can be racist with impunity.

 

[User removed 4]

Bad examples I'm afraid.

Big Ron has appeared in a number of shows since his unfortunate slip, the latest being Celebrity Wife Swap on Channel Four.

Not bad for an ex football pundit.

It was in that programme that Ron apologised properly for the very first time. Sadly for him it wasn't picked up by the newspapers.

Billy Connolly's stupid remark was made in a untelevised comedy performance, which surprisingly the audience reacted to very very badly.

He was loudly booed, which was a story in itself.

In my opinion, if you go and see a live comedy performance you sometimes have to put your political correctness to one side.

ok i'll accept your points about atkinson's subsequent tv appearances, but as for the point about attending live comedy shows , why on earth should choosing to attend a live comedy show be different to choosing to watch a tv programme with regards to political correctness? I'll tell you it shouldnt.

 

[London Calling]

Key factors here should be: is the term used considered racist under the various Race Relations Acts specifically the Race Relations (Amendment) Act which requires the public sector ( in this case the BBC) to promote race relations and equality and work to eliminate discrimination.

It could be that the BBC failure to act, could itself lead the organisation into legal trouble under the parametres of the Act.

 

[keaton]

I think Du Beke should be sacked and banned from having any income from the public purse in future. I'd also ban his whole family similiarly.
The same goes for Prince Harry

 

[BensGrandad]

My view for what it is worth is that without newspaper exposure and some interfeering busy body nobody would have heard of this comment. It was not made in public but in front of employees who should not spout about what happens at work and the person it was made to accepted the apology and has not shown to be upset or refused to continue working with him so it should be just forgotten.

 

[Normal Rob]

Yawn yawn yawn. You do wonder how dull some people's jobs/lives are that they spend all day on here debating the same things over and over and over again.

It is precisely for the opposite reason (i.e. I do not spend all day on here - at least not as much time as you clearly do) that i did not know that the topic had already been discussed.

 

[CliveWalkerWingWizard]

Oh how you must be the world's leading authority on racism, at least that is how your comment comes across.

Was Prince Harry being derogatory when he referred to his 'lil Paki friend'?

I think not.

When I mean to insult someone I try to offend them.

If I called someone 'ginga' and that person is very touchy about their hair colour, should I be sacked for that?

When, at work, I call someone a useless git, when they are, should I be reprimanded for it?

All ism's and ist's are subject to the interpretation of the person on the receiving end. Perhaps we should all learn to live and let live a little more. And to those complaining about something that they have not heard first hand......get a f*****g life!

Didn't say that I was an authority on racism - just making a point to somebody that thinks 'Paki' is not a racist term. And yes Harry was being racist maybe not intentionally - but still racist. Somebody in his position should have more sense.

I don't agree with media 'stirring' public opinions and the burst of outrage. The comments do not offend me personally because they were not aimed at me. I would be sacked if I used the term Paki at work. Others have been sacked at the BBC - why should Du beke be an exception?

 

[Wozza]

Yawn yawn yawn. You do wonder how dull some people's jobs/lives are that they spend all day on here debating the same things over and over and over again.

And here you are commenting on it.

 

[clapham_gull]

ok i'll accept your points about atkinson's subsequent tv appearances, but as for the point about attending live comedy shows , why on earth should choosing to attend a live comedy show be different to choosing to watch a tv programme with regards to political correctness? I'll tell you it shouldnt.

Because broadcasters are bound by a multitude of rules and standards that don't apply in private premises.

Some are self imposed, others set by independent bodies.

If you want to go and out and buy a Jimmy Jones DVD fine, but don't expect Channel Four to broadcast it.

This isn't a new modern New Labour thing, it's always been the case and rather than trying to set the public agenda they try hard to shift their boundaries to what they feel the public mood is.

Sometimes they get it badly wrong, generally they get it right. They also take the risk of offending people by testing what the boundaries are.

It wasn't that long ago that tampons weren't allowed to be advertised.

 

[CliveWalkerWingWizard]

ok i'll accept your points about atkinson's subsequent tv appearances, but as for the point about attending live comedy shows , why on earth should choosing to attend a live comedy show be different to choosing to watch a tv programme with regards to political correctness? I'll tell you it shouldnt.

There is poor taste, which is not PC but racism is a different issue.

 

[The Spanish]

Maybe I worded it poorly. The Ken Bigley thing is obviously abhorrent; I was commenting on the fact that this, IMHO, should be looked upon more harshly than the Brand/Ross gubbins as it involved racial abuse.

see this is the point. there is a hysteria about racism in this country that people happily fan the flames of. why is racism any worse than ringing people up and abusing them for another reason?

the sooner we get out of this mindset that racism is The Worst Thing A Person Can Do, when in reality it is just another human flaw amongst many, then we might move on in this country.

We are legislated up to the f***ing hilt regarding race relations. Accusing the police of being 'institutionally racist' as so many did with such opportunistic glee, has led directly to young black men shooting each other on the streets of our capital city with near impunity, and people just shrugging their shoulders. If what was happening in London was happening in Belfast there would be soldiers back on the streets by now.

Its time to pack this bollocks up, its helping no one any more.

 

[London Calling]

My view for what it is worth is that without newspaper exposure and some interfeering busy body nobody would have heard of this comment. It was not made in public but in front of employees who should not spout about what happens at work and the person it was made to accepted the apology and has not shown to be upset or refused to continue working with him so it should be just forgotten.

As I said, legally BBC has to clamp down on this and has to prove to the HRC that it is acting within theProvisions of the various Discrimination Acts.

 

[London Calling]

see this is the point. there is a hysteria about racism in this country that people happily fan the flames of. why is racism any worse than ringing people up and abusing them for another reason?

the sooner we get out of this mindset that racism is The Worst Thing A Person Can Do, when in reality it is just another human flaw amongst many, then we might move on in this country.

We are legislated up to the f***ing hilt regarding race relations. Accusing the police of being 'institutionally racist' as so many did with such opportunistic glee, has led directly to young black men shooting each other on the streets of our capital city with near impunity, and people just shrugging their shoulders. If what was happening in London was happening in Belfast there would be soldiers back on the streets by now.

Its time to pack this bollocks up, its helping no one any more.

Don't agree with all of this but the fact that killings by knife or gun are daily now in LOndon and weekly in my area, a similar scenario brought troops into Ireland?

 

[BensGrandad]

Is it not sufficient for the BBC to issue a severe warning against reoccurrence and the fact that the person concerned or 'insulted' has accepted the apology as basis for having taken action.

 

[User removed 4]

There is poor taste, which is not PC but racism is a different issue.

the post by spanish says it all.