every system has to allow for individual cases, for example your grandson. But why advertise the system so it can be abused, and then try and justify it?
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STH +3 - a fair solution?
- Thread starter southcoastdaz
- Start date
every system has to allow for individual cases, for example your grandson. But why advertise the system so it can be abused, and then try and justify it?
Wozza
Shite Supporter
+3 is an unfair system, but I don't think Cat1 and chums will take all the best seats - simply because everyone has a different idea what the 'best' is.
You do have priority over non STH. I'm not a STH and don't know any P1's, you therefore have priority over me, and plenty like me, and we're not moaning about it, as it seems eminently fair.
I'll be at Gigg Lane on Wednesday, and the Galpharm next Saturday, but probably won't get a ticket for Daggers as I'm only a blue member. But I won't be bitching about being further down the pecking order to a STH who goes to two away games a year.
I honestly think this is just scaremongering though, there are not thousands of people who are going to take up this offer, it has been blown out of proportion. And I would imagine many non P1 STH know people who are P1 STH, and therefore can be one of their +3's anyway, if they are that desperate to be one of the first to get a ticket..
But if you did know a P1 then you would jump in front of me is that fair?
Depends on your definition of 'fair'. It could be the P1 is a complete cock, and therefore I would have to suffer sitting next to him. It could be that his choice of what constitutes a 'better' seat does not agree with mine, and therefore I end up sitting somewhere other than my preferred area, where there could be thousands of seats to choose from.
When you bought a ST you contractually bought the right to sit at Withdean, and were guaranteed a seat at Falmer. The club have contractually kept their side of the bargain, and given a stadium far exceeding expectations.
Personally I would rather be at Falmer with 12,000 STH's compared to 6,000, but you appear to disagree, and you are perfectly entitled to that opinion.
cjd
Well-known member
Scaremongering...really...?
Is this the same club who were so astonished at the rapid speed of the take-up of the 1901 club, then had to re-structure the East Stand to accommodate extra facilities for even more '1901' members due to demand far exceeding their expectations...?
This club (ken Brown) has already shown that it doesn't really understand the pent-up demand for a decent stadium to watch football. A great idea to encourage existing STH's with new STH's (johhny come latelys), but not at the expense of dis-regarding many 9+STH's and their wish to be rewarded, as promised by the club, to have first dibs on their seats.
I want as many new ST holders as possible but they can have their seat after all those who have sat through years of soakings first. I appreciare that the club has a difficult decision to make on this but I can see some disgruntled current season ticket holders come Feb when they go to book their seat only to find all the areas they wanted to go have gone.
severnside gull
Well-known member
Really don't understand the fuss. The club/the business has three times more seats/products available.
It is currently able to guarantee sales (pre-sell) less than 50% of its product and relies on random sales for the remainder resulting in a total take-up averaging 60-70% of everything available. Recent improvements in its product have resulted in enhanced sales of around 80% but with new production it needs to treble sales so in offering each of its current premium customers the opportunity to make multiple purchases it is seeking to increase its guaranteed sales exponentially. The reality is that this sales source will probably only double pre-sales at best. Statistically the likelihood that any one of its premium clients will not be able to purchase the exact product of their choice (ie. a specific seat) is possibly greater than 1 in 5 and the possibility that they will be unable to purchase a seat that is acceptable to their specific wants is even greater - in the North Stand even assuming all want a central location the product available is greater than the number of potential purchasers - likewise "half-way line" seats in the east stand (even allowing for sales to "gold"/1901 clients). Only in the west stand is there a potential deficiency caused by the presence of gold clients and this is mitigated by the availability of the upper tier.
In short the real-world chances of more than a very very few getting a less than reasonable/acceptable deal is very slim and all the club has done is act as any business would if it actually wants to maximise sales of its product.
Now if anyone wants to complain about the club acting like a business in this respect, could I just point them to look at the many clubs who are struggling financially and at risk of failing because they haven't - in one or more ways - understood that a business, even a football club, needs cash flow to succeed.
If after all the dust settles and all who want season tickets have attended their presentations and been sold or otherwise on the product available - if then there are many if any who are seriously disatisfied, come back and say so. Somehow I just don't see it happening based on the numbers.
It is currently able to guarantee sales (pre-sell) less than 50% of its product and relies on random sales for the remainder resulting in a total take-up averaging 60-70% of everything available. Recent improvements in its product have resulted in enhanced sales of around 80% but with new production it needs to treble sales so in offering each of its current premium customers the opportunity to make multiple purchases it is seeking to increase its guaranteed sales exponentially. The reality is that this sales source will probably only double pre-sales at best. Statistically the likelihood that any one of its premium clients will not be able to purchase the exact product of their choice (ie. a specific seat) is possibly greater than 1 in 5 and the possibility that they will be unable to purchase a seat that is acceptable to their specific wants is even greater - in the North Stand even assuming all want a central location the product available is greater than the number of potential purchasers - likewise "half-way line" seats in the east stand (even allowing for sales to "gold"/1901 clients). Only in the west stand is there a potential deficiency caused by the presence of gold clients and this is mitigated by the availability of the upper tier.
In short the real-world chances of more than a very very few getting a less than reasonable/acceptable deal is very slim and all the club has done is act as any business would if it actually wants to maximise sales of its product.
Now if anyone wants to complain about the club acting like a business in this respect, could I just point them to look at the many clubs who are struggling financially and at risk of failing because they haven't - in one or more ways - understood that a business, even a football club, needs cash flow to succeed.
If after all the dust settles and all who want season tickets have attended their presentations and been sold or otherwise on the product available - if then there are many if any who are seriously disatisfied, come back and say so. Somehow I just don't see it happening based on the numbers.
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cjd
Well-known member
I stand to be corrected, but I'm sure I heard that it is not necessary for a STH's '+3' to sit with the original STH.
I,ll ask this question on the 'ask the club' forum.
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We're the Stripes
Well-known member
Also worth noting that only current adult STHs get the +3 privilege, and I imagine there are quite a few non-adult STHs at Withdean.
clippedgull
Hotdogs, extra onions
cjd
Well-known member
Thankyou....what say you now El Presidente...?
Would you still agree as Insider has had to say...'the Board have thought long and hard about this'......?
Wozza
Shite Supporter
Not many kids will have 9yr service...
We're the Stripes
Well-known member
Guess not, might be a few u21s though. I wasn't really thinking about Priority 1 - was just saying generally. Guessing that's missed the point of this debate then!
Does seem a needless people getting worked up about priorities mind, I feel for those who may attend Withdean regularly but don't even fall under Priority 4, or know someone whose +3 they can tag onto. (Again, probably not many of them though!)
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severnside gull
Well-known member
pointless use of ATC as reading the information already available would confirm this (if a little less self-righteously).
Why are we assuming that everyone will buy their own ticket +3 and that all the extras will be newcomers? If you knew someone who is a category 1 would you ask them to add you to their list so you could jump the queue? I would.
How many extras are people in each category likely to buy? Certainly NOT 3 in every case and probably less than 2 (on average). Many category 1's will have friends who are already category 2, 3 or 4 and so on down the line. The greatest take-up of extra ST's by newcomers is statistically likely to be from the group with the lowest priority - the last group of existing STH's to buy. The only people they are getting a jump on is the group that everyone is getting a jump on - the non season ticket holders.
Not having a go at you cjd but people are getting way too anxious and way too exercised over this. Just chill, attend the presentations, and fill your boots. The chances of you going away unhappy are so slim as to be almost non-existant
The Large One
Who's Next?
It seems to me that you're assuming that a Priority 1 STH who attends the presentation in mid-January has first dibs on seats over a Priority 1 STH who attends in, say, late January or mid-February.
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The Merry Prankster
Pactum serva
I bet you do (bad apostrophe).
Ken Newbury
Active member
His assumptions are correct, someone who attends in mid-January will choose their one to four seats, whoever then attends later (even at the next appointment) will not be able to choose those seats as they will already be gone!
cjd
Well-known member
Thankyou...in a rather confused way you are illustrating my point of view.
You are saying that you expect 'only' 2 people to take up each additional seat available to existing priority 1 STH's. You are saying that supporters from lower Priority groups are liable to piggy back on existing Priority 1 STH's.........plus of course newcomers.
The first Presentations are on Jan10th.. There are 4 Presentations each day, with each presentation accommodating 40 people.
Some Priority 1 presentations are not until 25th Jan..( as is mine).
Therefore, even on your 'only' prediction there would be approx. 13,000 seats unavailable to choose from..( 11 days x 4 presentations each day x 40 STHs at each meeting x 3 tickets each (original STH + 2) , 2400 1901 members and 2500 'away' allocation and ? 3000 seats put aside for non season-ticket holders).
The seating arrangement at Amex has many different pricing levels. The reason is quite simple. Some viewing positions are better than others.. We all know that.....and THAT is why it is important to reward the existing long-term STH's first, as promised by the club.
By the way, the question on ATC is not pointless.Clearly not everyone is aware of the rules regarding seating of the '+3' allowance...ask El Presidente....and he can read...LOL..!