Statue of disabled pregnant woman in Trafalgar Square...

[DJ Leon]

At least you can't say he doesn't give a comprehensive answer even if you don't agree with what is being said.

I don't agree with most of what he's said, but he's obviously an intelligent bloke who makes me think.

It's just a shame that he can't do this without resorting to a patronising and an 'I am always right-you are an idiot' array of insults.

He will of course, repsond to rmy eply above (and here) with a new and oh so amusing strand of patroinising 'I am always right-you are an idiot' comments.

God love him.

 

[Tom Bombadil]

You are joking? The Arabs traded in Ethiopa, East Africa, the Arabian states, the Middle East and the Mediterranean after the Roman empire failed and were trading in slaves before the Greeks had their empire.

But so were we! Go and look up the figures, then come back when you've got an argument based on something other than racial bias.

 

[Yorkie]

But so were we! Go and look up the figures, then come back when you've got an argument based on something other than racial bias.

We weren't civilised enough to even build ships then.

 

[looney]

But so were we! Go and look up the figures, then come back when you've got an argument based on something other than racial bias.

Christ you really are pig ignorant, the islamic world traded in black slaves for longer and on a much larger scale than the west. One Sultans Army had over 100,000 Negoes. I'll look it up for you in a day or two if you want.

It was finally stopped in 1905 when a combined fleet of US and royal navey ships shelled the Pirate/Barbery coast(Thats the straightish diagonal bit at the bottom of Arabia).

 

[Richard Whiteley]

Christ you really are pig ignorant,

oh the irony

 

[looney]

Christ you really are pig ignorant, the islamic world...........

double Ironey.

 

[Richard Whiteley]

Quick tip : Check out how I spell words before relying on your own typing fingers baby

 

[Yorkie]

Christ you really are pig ignorant, the islamic world traded in black slaves for longer and on a much larger scale than the west. One Sultans Army had over 100,000 Negoes. I'll look it up for you in a day or two if you want.

It was finally stopped in 1905 when a combined fleet of US and royal navey ships shelled the Pirate/Barbery coast(Thats the straightish diagonal bit at the bottom of Arabia).

Islam was only created in the 6th century. I was talking about the Arab world (not any particular country) trading in slavery for centuries before that.

Btw the Africans themselves used to go up country and steal people out of villages to bring to the coast and sell to the slave traders.

 

[the wanderbus]

what a load of p.c. bollocks.........I hope I havent offended anybody by saying that

 

[the wanderbus]

I meant the statue not the islam/slavery thing

 

[London Irish]

He will of course, repsond to rmy eply above (and here) with a new and oh so amusing strand of patroinising 'I am always right-you are an idiot' comments.

I don't agree with most of what he's said

It would be interesting to continue the debate on this, but why would I do that?

Well, my actual reply is to say there is little point carrying on the debate because the main thing we appeared to have disagreed on, method (appropriate use of historical context), I think we actually might agree on!

I am reasonably satisfied about this outcome and I'm not sure you shouldn't be either.

My feeling early on was that you were putting forth quite a demagogic extreme historical relativist position to stop critical judgements of the seedier aspects of British history. But in your later debating posts I think you flesh out your position and accept that such value judgements can be appropriate provided you apply historical context.

Perhaps early on, you honestly did feel I was someone who casually and unthinkingly applied 21st century standards to historical events. I hope what I've said has convinced you that what I believe, in fact, is such standards always have to be contextualised by study of the specific political situations of historical times.

Frankly, this was the substance of the debate - and my belief is the discussion worked in developing common ground! I'm sure that we still disagree about lots of subsidiary matters that were raised, like who was better at patronising whom, whether I'm over or under 5ft 8ins, or whether slippery eel is a dreadful insult. But that stuff is of candyfloss importance, isn't it?

I have tried in many of my posts to be as patronising as possible to you.

That is an honest remark and one I find quite amusing

I think there is little harm checking if someone you are debating with is someone who gets easily wound up and distracted by rhetorical excesses - it's almost like an intelligence test for the guy you are debating. If you find that someone gets distracted and rantingly incoherent by a bit of candyfloss banter, then of course there is a temptation to have a bit of fun at his expense. But if you find that they are unfazed by inconsequentialities and instead return the banter in good humour and, far more crucially, stick to the substance
of the original argument and refute substantive points, then genuine insights are possible on both sides I feel.

It is in that happy context I would your place your concerns about "patronising".

 

[London Irish]

Bloody hell - what do you want from that answer - a GCSE?

Nah, apparently they aren't worth the paper they're written on, according to my copy of the Daily Mail

Good luck at Southampton University, I guess your start is approaching fast.

It will be interesting to see if academia infects your language, as it so sadly did mine

 

[Faldo]

So, to summarise:

Statue - noble, but a bit crap.

English - nasty bastards who drown babies.

Job done!

 

[HampshireSeagulls]

So, to summarise:

Statue - noble, but a bit crap.

English - nasty bastards who drown babies.

Job done!

I thought we ate babies? Bugger, been doing it wrong again.

 

[Tom Bombadil]

Christ you really are pig ignorant, the islamic world traded in black slaves for longer and on a much larger scale than the west. One Sultans Army had over 100,000 Negoes. I'll look it up for you in a day or two if you want.

It was finally stopped in 1905 when a combined fleet of US and royal navey ships shelled the Pirate/Barbery coast(Thats the straightish diagonal bit at the bottom of Arabia).

Hmm, I may be pig ignorant, but at least I know where the Barbary Coast is (here's a little clue, it's in the Maghreb).

 

[Tom Bombadil]

Islam was only created in the 6th century. I was talking about the Arab world (not any particular country) trading in slavery for centuries before that.

Btw the Africans themselves used to go up country and steal people out of villages to bring to the coast and sell to the slave traders.

Yes granted the inhabitants of the Arabian peninsular have a long history of slave trading, but so does everywhere else in the world.
One thing some black americans have difficulty with is the part Africans themselves played in the slave trade. White and Arab slave trading in sub-saharan Africa relied on a network of local suppliers.

 

[Simster]

One thing some black americans have difficulty with is the part Africans themselves played in the slave trade. White and Arab slave trading in sub-saharan Africa relied on a network of local suppliers.

You're absolutely right there.

Three years I was working with a bloke who descended from Ghana. Apart from being a total tosspot, he was also set apart by the fact that his dad was one of 106 - yes 106 siblings! It turns out that his grandfather who had several wives had inherited sack loads of cash from family money. He needed it to support all his wives and kids but the fact is that the family money can be traced back to the days of slavery. Basically, his great great great great grandfather (or whatever) basically directed Western slave traders to villages made up of his enemies, helped round them up and pocketed a large slice of the proceeds.

The bloke was quite proud of this family history. I did tell he was total tosser.

 

[Richard Whiteley]

Hmm, I may be pig ignorant, but at least I know where the Barbary Coast is (here's a little clue, it's in the Maghreb).

O.W.N.E.D.

 

[GUNTER]

The statue is just tribute to a brave and determined lady who has overcome severe disability to remind us of how lucky we are.

A magnificent monument.

 

[Dick Knights Mumm]

And Gunter has not said that about anyone or anything since that Reading fella we had on loan.