State school or Public school?

[Seagull27]

My state school had streaming, 4 levels I seem to remember. You were moved up and down in relation to your ability and attitude. Ultimately all the disruptive kids ended up in the bottom set whilst the rest were in sets according to their ability. Everyone got the level and type of education and support they needed because of this. This seems an incredibly simple operation which resolved the issue I have quoted. Does this not happen now?

The problem with this is that the kids who are perfectly well behaved, but struggle with the class and are in the bottom sets, are dragged even further down by the disruptive kids.

 

[upthealbion1970]

Have to agree with those who have commented on parental involvement with kids education, I went to state school and was identified as a high achiever but had no help or encouragement from my parents at all, in fact it was the opposite which led to me rebelling at school. Ended up with 9 O levels doing the absolute bare minimum and the only one from my class not going to uni. My boy is nearly 9 and was also identified as a high achiever except aged 7, yes he's a very clever boy but he could write his name and count to 10 before he started reception as mrs put time and effort into teaching him. He thrives on working hard, learning new things and using new skills. Too many kids in his class have little or no chance of getting the best out of school and so resort to disrupting the class - their parents are the ones who let them stay up late on school nights and haven't/don't put time into their kids education. It's got a massive amount to do with the standards that are instilled into kids, more so than what type of school IMHO

 

[JetsetJimbo]

If parents have worked hard and earnt lots of money, why shouldnt they send their children to fee paying schools?

Let's turn that around. Why should the children of poor parents be punished for their parents' poverty?

 

[sten_super]

Something that might be of interest regards public schooling. The final salary pensions that the vast majority of public school teachers receive is funded in the same way as state school teachers - tax payer. So in affect we are all subsidising the public school system as the public schools would have very real problems funding such a scheme.

But it works both ways. Parents that pay for private school education pay the same taxes as someone whose child is in a comprehensive school, so are effectively still paying money into the education budget.

OT, The whole pensions issue is incredibly messy anyway - it's not clear how well funded any of these schemes would be if successive governments stopped raiding them when the kitty is empty (I see Osbourne wants to the raid these funds now to fund infrastructure work).

I went to a grammar school, my wife went to a comprehensive, and while my instinct (if we could afford it) would be to send our children (if/when we have any) to a private school I suspect hers would be the opposite, so who knows what will happen!

 

[matthew]

I went to a public school and would send my kids to a public school because they're simply a lot better

 

[ROSM]

As a product of a catholic comprehensive, I feel (as Simster said) that we should review again, the potential for state Grammar and Comprehensive schools to operate side by side (as they do in kent for example) rather than what has been done for catholic and other faith schools.

I do also think that streaming at comprehensive level will be key. You have to look at what has happened in Brighton and Hove to see why concerns may exist. Stanley Deason/ Marina High closing has had a significant impact on other schools such as Longhill. Friends of mine who taught at Stanley Deason felt it was still worth pursuing as results had started to improve and the teaching staff were more adept and aware of the environment. Other schools have not been as prepared to deal with some of challenges that have arrived.

I have friends who have sent their children to private schools - some did this because of concerns about the local school (essentially at comprehensive level rather than primary and), others because their children had special needs that the state couldnt assist with. I have some sympathy with both these views but I personally dont believe I would do it for my children. I believe that all children have the opportunity to develop and shine in the state system and it is the parental input that is key to this.

many people have been critical of the money spent on education under the last labour government - I do fear though that after 10 years of this coalition/conservative regime, similar levels of spending will be required again.

 

[Common as Mook]

Let's turn that around. Why should the children of poor parents be punished for their parents' poverty?

They are not being punished. It's just another option. A bit like the option to shop at Waitrose rather than Lidl.

 

[BLOCK F]

Let's turn that around. Why should the children of poor parents be punished for their parents' poverty?

They are not being punished.Very,very few people are able or choose to send their children to private schools.
It is just a harsh fact of life,whether you agree with the idea of private education or not.Am I being 'punished' because I am unable to afford to pop over to Goodwood and order my hand made personalised Rolls-Royce for £250,000?

 

[Common as Mook]

As a product of a catholic comprehensive, I feel (as Simster said) that we should review again, the potential for state Grammar and Comprehensive schools to operate side by side (as they do in kent for example) rather than what has been done for catholic and other faith schools.

I do also think that streaming at comprehensive level will be key. You have to look at what has happened in Brighton and Hove to see why concerns may exist. Stanley Deason/ Marina High closing has had a significant impact on other schools such as Longhill. Friends of mine who taught at Stanley Deason felt it was still worth pursuing as results had started to improve and the teaching staff were more adept and aware of the environment. Other schools have not been as prepared to deal with some of challenges that have arrived.

I have friends who have sent their children to private schools - some did this because of concerns about the local school (essentially at comprehensive level rather than primary and), others because their children had special needs that the state couldnt assist with. I have some sympathy with both these views but I personally dont believe I would do it for my children. I believe that all children have the opportunity to develop and shine in the state system and it is the parental input that is key to this.

many people have been critical of the money spent on education under the last labour government - I do fear though that after 10 years of this coalition/conservative regime, similar levels of spending will be required again.

Yet another predictable sideswipe at the current government..........

Agree about parental input though. That is the absolute key regardless of where you go to school

 

[Common as Mook]

They are not being punished.Very,very few people are able or choose to send their children to private schools.
It is just a harsh fact of life,whether you agree with the idea of private education or not.Am I being 'punished' because I am unable to afford to pop over to Goodwood and order my hand made personalised Rolls-Royce for £250,000?

This.

 

[aolstudios]

They are not being punished.Very,very few people are able or choose to send their children to private schools.
It is just a harsh fact of life,whether you agree with the idea of private education or not.Am I being 'punished' because I am unable to afford to pop over to Goodwood and order my hand made personalised Rolls-Royce for £250,000?

ridiculous and knuckle headed to compare the right to a decent education, which will affect a child's chances forever with the choice to buy an ostentatious car

 

[aolstudios]

I think teachers who get trained by the state should have to repay the cost of their training from their own funds before they're allowed to work for a private schools, and private schools should all be stripped of their charitable status which is a blatant tax dodge (I mean, in what way are they charities? They're businesses, end of story). Although for me, that should only be a first step in doing away with the divisive, privilege-cementing concept altogether.

Thiiiiiiis

 

[User removed 4]

Let's turn that around. Why should the children of poor parents be punished for their parents' poverty?

they shouldnt be, but why not try and raise standards in state schools instead of resorting to 1970's style politics of envy.

 

[kano]

I went to state school and was bored out of my head so behaved like a little shit. Looking back, although I did OK, I must have had a negative impact on loads of kids education who were unfortunate enough to be in the same class as me. State schools don't have the resources to cater well for anyone who needs more than the lesson plan/curriculum provides... whether that's more help or more advanced work. So private school if i was minted.

Although putting the time in with your kids at home is probably more important than what school they go to.

 

[Common as Mook]

ridiculous and knuckle headed to compare the right to a decent education, which will affect a child's chances forever with the choice to buy an ostentatious car

The minerals are there everywhere for a decent education. You could go to the worst school in the country, have the necessary application and still have a decent education.

 

[Common as Mook]

they shouldnt be, but why not try and raise standards in state schools instead of resorting to 1970's style politics of envy.

With you on this one.

 

[BLOCK F]

ridiculous and knuckle headed to compare the right to a decent education, which will affect a child's chances forever with the choice to buy an ostentatious car

Aol,I was making a point about Jetset Jimbo stating that poor children were being punished for their parents poverty.
Not knuckleheaded at all.Read Jetset's post and then make a more considered reply!

 

[Simster]

Aol,I was making a point about Jetset Jimbo stating that poor children were being punished for their parents poverty.
Not knuckleheaded at all.Read Jetset's post and then make a more considered reply!

The point you were making was fair enough. Your choice of analogy to make that point was completely absurd.

ridiculous and knuckle headed to compare the right to a decent education, which will affect a child's chances forever with the choice to buy an ostentatious car

I agree with that, so lets change tack.

Those that are paying for private education are doing so by paying through the nose on income that has already been taxed. It ought to be considered very poor value for money, when you consider they have already paid for their kids' right to an education through taxes.

So isn't it the case that the challenge ought to be to persuade the electorate to spend FAR more on education and raise taxes by 2p in the £ to pay for it? Make sure education is up to standard pretty much everywhere. This may mean smaller class sizes and higher spending in more challenging areas of the country than in other places, but we need to remove the stigma of state education to middle classes in areas where hard working tax payers feel obliged to go private.

This issue ought not to be the class war that it is to some. You will never stop those of obscene wealth and privilege from sending their kids to Harrow and Eton without banning them, and I can't see the point of that. But as a nation, I feel we ought to aspire to have our state education up to standards somewhere approaching the thousands of private schools with good facilities and smaller class sizes. I genuinely believe that 95% of people sending their kids to these schools are doing so with the best of intentions rather than snobbery.

 

[Westdene Seagull]

ridiculous and knuckle headed to compare the right to a decent education, which will affect a child's chances forever with the choice to buy an ostentatious car

OK - use private health care as the example then ? Is it fair that some people can afford it and so get quicker and potentially better treatment ? And before you say scrap the private health care just remember that some NHS patients now get referred to private hospitals and get the benefits of the private health care system.

I also object to being told that I'm punishing "poor" children by sending my children to private school. I live just down from a large council estate - it's amazing how many of the kids are wearing brand new designer clothes, have the latest mobile phones and gadgets and almost every property has a satellite dish. It's about priorities - I've chosen to go without things for the benefit of my children.

 

[Herr Tubthumper]

The problem with this is that the kids who are perfectly well behaved, but struggle with the class and are in the bottom sets, are dragged even further down by the disruptive kids.

The easy remedy to have the lowest set for disruptive kids only then. It's not difficult and it seemed to work okay in my time.