[Politics] Sir Keir Starmer’s route to Number 10

[A mex eyecan]

It’s a simple to collect spite tax. Let’s add 20% to fees, to end the privileged world of independent schooling and the British class system. Not my words, James O’Brien’s and left wing think tank guests. Except the wealthy will just pay more, it won’t alter their offsprings uni and careers destiny one jot.

it’s not spite tax as you say, it’s fairness.
Even if you didn’t levy vat on the fees is it right that they don’t pay vat on the services that they employ and engage?
Let’s argue for example the millions spent on infrastructure, furnishings etc etc, should they be able to claim back the vat on these items?

 

[Brian Fantana]

200 per month in VAT? If you can afford 12k a year on school fees surely another 200 a month won’t break the bank will it? Maybe sacrifice one of the Porsches? Or rent out a room in the east wing of your mansion?

I usually agree with everything you’ve posted, but you’ve made yourself sound like a bit of arsehole there, IMO.

Plenty of people who send their kids to private school make enormous sacrifices to do so, whether that be working extra jobs, foregoing expensive holidays and other ‘luxuries’ in life.

It is quite possible to make the decision that prioritising your children’s education is important enough to you that you’ll put yourself close to financial difficulties in order to do so.

 

[Weststander]

I'd be completely behind those with special needs that can't be met my state schools, having their private education funded by the state. Perhaps paid for by VAT raised from private fees.

And to clarify on healthcare - I'm not suggesting private hospitals should be shut down, far from it, they are key in our healthcare system. But perhaps they should not be VAT exempt (both for patients and the hospitals/companies) for as much as they are.

The things is lots of ordinary people like my elderly Dad succumbed to the pain and had a knee op at the Nuffield. Believe me, parting with the money was also painful . But he was crippled, it was sad to see him suffer. The NHS consultant tried to steer him away from any intervention “at your age”. A few years on he can walk, garden, drive, he doesn’t now grimace.

Should 20% VAT be added to the already big bill?

LBC and R4 You & Yours have spoken to people who say they’re huge NHS supporters, left wing, but due to the vast waiting lists, they went private. They feel guilt.

 

[beorhthelm]

it’s not spite tax as you say, it’s fairness.
Even if you didn’t levy vat on the fees is it right that they don’t pay vat on the services that they employ and engage?
Let’s argue for example the millions spent on infrastructure, furnishings etc etc, should they be able to claim back the vat on these items?

if they are VAT exempt services, they'll not be able to reclaim VAT on goods and services related to that service. that'll change now.

 

[A mex eyecan]

if they are VAT exempt services, they'll not be able to reclaim VAT on goods and services related to that service. that'll change now.

obviously they can’t reclaim vat on non vat rated goods as they wouldn’t have paid any.

I’m more talking about why they shouldn’t be able to claim back vat on rated goods and services as they do currently. Let’s say for example VAT paid on a 20 million drama suite or sports hall etc. Or what about the vat on their annual spend on hygiene consumables, or the VAT on a nice few luxury ground keepers bits of equipment etc etc etc

 

[Seagull27]

The things is lots of ordinary people like my elderly Dad succumbed to the pain and had a knee op at the Nuffield. Believe me, parting with the money was also painful . But he was crippled, it was sad to see him suffer. The NHS consultant tried to steer him away from any intervention “at your age”. A few years on he can walk, garden, drive, he doesn’t now grimace.

Should 20% VAT be added to the already big bill?

LBC and R4 You & Yours have spoken to people who say they’re huge NHS supporters, left wing, but due to the vast waiting lists, they went private. They feel guilt.

In my opinion, there's a case for VAT being charged simply because there will be many others in your father's position who simply couldn't afford it, who will never get the same benefits due to their financial position. Glad to hear it worked out for your dad though, hope he is walking pain free for years to come.

I don't think people should feel guilty about using private healthcare at all - or private education for that matter - if you have the money to pay for a quicker or better service, by all means do it. But you should pay VAT.

 

[Beach Hut]

Surely a better policy from Labour would to ensure the likes of Starbucks, Amazon etc actually pay the correct Corporate Tax or have they advised this already?

The only time I voted Labour, well New Labour was because Jack Straw advised he would sort one of the greatest miscarriages of justice ever seen in the country with Stephen Lawrence and he did.

Currently there is nothing particularly dynamic coming from Starmer, all too safe.

 

[A mex eyecan]

Surely a better policy from Labour would to ensure the likes of Starbucks, Amazon etc actually pay the correct Corporate Tax or have they advised this already?

The only time I voted Labour, well New Labour was because Jack Straw advised he would sort one of the greatest miscarriages of justice ever seen in the country with Stephen Lawrence and he did.

Currently there is nothing particularly dynamic coming from Starmer, all too safe.

surely the better policy would be to ensure both

 

[Weststander]

In my opinion, there's a case for VAT being charged simply because there will be many others in your father's position who simply couldn't afford it, who will never get the same benefits due to their financial position. Glad to hear it worked out for your dad though, hope he is walking pain free for years to come.

I don't think people should feel guilty about using private healthcare at all - or private education for that matter - if you have the money to pay for a quicker or better service, by all means do it. But you should pay VAT.

The underlying argument from the left wing about independent schools is that they maintain the class system of white middle class privilege.

But I can’t see how adding 20% to the cost of private medical treatment breaks down any injustices. It’s just hitting people who’ve raided their savings or employers funding health care schemes with a 20% greater cost. If you get a chance, this is worth a listen, just ordinary folk who succumbed to ease the pain or health scares.
https://www.bbc.co.uk/programmes/m001r807
Glad it’s not a policy, as it’d be a blunt instrument out of spite.

Instead the next government need to get the NHS back on track.

 

[Beach Hut]

surely the better policy would be to ensure both

Sorry but disagree, adding VAT to private school fees is almost old labour and showing their spitefulness.

Ensuring these huge corporations pay the correct corporate tax would ensure billions extra to the country

 

[Herr Tubthumper]

I usually agree with everything you’ve posted, but you’ve made yourself sound like a bit of arsehole there, IMO.

Plenty of people who send their kids to private school make enormous sacrifices to do so, whether that be working extra jobs, foregoing expensive holidays and other ‘luxuries’ in life.

It is quite possible to make the decision that prioritising your children’s education is important enough to you that you’ll put yourself close to financial difficulties in order to do so.

Fair enough. Ignoring my comments about Porsches, my point about it being VAT free still stands.

 

[Brian Fantana]

Fair enough. Ignoring my comments about Porsches, my point about it being VAT free still stands.

Oh agree, the VAT question is an entirely fair one to be debated.

 

[A mex eyecan]

Sorry but disagree, adding VAT to private school fees is almost old labour and showing their spitefulness.

Ensuring these huge corporations pay the correct corporate tax would ensure billions extra to the country

so don’t add it to the fees, but stop them claiming back the vat on what they spend.

 

[Is it PotG?]

so don’t add it to the fees, but stop them claiming back the vat on what they spend.

Might that not reflect upon the quality of service they are able to provide?

 

[zefarelly]

In my opinion, there's a case for VAT being charged simply because there will be many others in your father's position who simply couldn't afford it, who will never get the same benefits due to their financial position. Glad to hear it worked out for your dad though, hope he is walking pain free for years to come.

I don't think people should feel guilty about using private healthcare at all - or private education for that matter - if you have the money to pay for a quicker or better service, by all means do it. But you should pay VAT.

I agree . . . If you can afford it, why wouldn't you . . . The national services ( all of them) Have been decimated over the last 40 years. Thats a different conversation. But . . If you can afford luxury, it should be subject to vat. . . . . If only the vat revenue went directly back where its needed . . . .like nhs dentists, ordinary schools, for the peasants . . . Who work harder and achieve more

 

[nicko31]

I usually agree with everything you’ve posted, but you’ve made yourself sound like a bit of arsehole there, IMO.

Plenty of people who send their kids to private school make enormous sacrifices to do so, whether that be working extra jobs, foregoing expensive holidays and other ‘luxuries’ in life.

It is quite possible to make the decision that prioritising your children’s education is important enough to you that you’ll put yourself close to financial difficulties in order to do so.

The more of those sharp elbowed parents that are forced into the State system the better it will be

 

[Seagull27]

The underlying argument from the left wing about independent schools is that they maintain the class system of white middle class privilege.

That's not my argument personally, I just think that if you want to pay for an enhanced version of what you can already get for free from the government, then you should pay VAT. I've got absolutely no problem with those who use those services nor do I care what class they're from.

I was being a little facetious with the healthcare comparison and it is a far more nuanced situation than private education. But there are certainly some private treatments that currently come under VAT exemption that perhaps should not, and perhaps the private hospitals themselves should at least be paying VAT on the medical equipment etc they buy

 

[A mex eyecan]

Might that not reflect upon the quality of service they are able to provide?

and so? Why shouldn’t they pay it? If they were that short of money then rein in some of the vanity projects they invest in.

 

[Herr Tubthumper]

You could say the same for dentists. An interesting R5 discussion on this on Monday. It costs £250k of public money to train a dentist, their student loan at the end of it tiny by comparison, unless they have rich parents so nil. Immediately most leave for the much higher paid (sky’s the limit) private sector.

A social minded dentist from Stepney telephoned in, he refuses to do private work, he said there should be a contract where for say 8 years post qualifying you have to work as an NHS dentist.

Interesting point. Education is free in many European counties so I wonder how they deal with training up doctors and dentists and then potentially losing them. Given there’s no student loan these countries lose more money than the UK as none is repaid.

 

[Beach Hut]

The underlying argument from the left wing about independent schools is that they maintain the class system of white middle class privilege.

Which shows how out of touch they are as I suspect many private school pupils these days aren't white middle class privilege