[Politics] Sir Keir Starmer’s route to Number 10

[Harry Wilson's tackle]

Are you being deliberately thick or just provocative? I though HTs unnecessarily patronising response was wanky - not the argument

You replied to a post of mine that was a reference to sparky or whatever his name is. The implication was that my argument was wanky.

If this was not your intention please accept my apology.

 

[Weststander]

Get what you’re saying, but where do you draw a distinction. Im no expert but I would imagine that the vast majority of private schools expenditure comes via the big guns. Why should they take the proverbial pee just so the rarer examples you put forward get the vat knocked off?

It’s not rarer examples. For every ££££ Brighton College, there are dozens of small nurturing schools.

 

[Harry Wilson's tackle]

well if my thoughts on the fairness off items vat free and those who can’t afford the basics in life make me wanky then so be it. I’ll gladly stand accused of being a to55er.

Apparently there has been a misunderstanding so I'm happy to retract the comment.

 

[dazzer6666]

You replied to a post of mine that was a reference to sparky or whatever his name is. The implication was that my argument was wanky.

If this was not your intention please accept my apology.

Accepted of course…easy confusion on here sometimes

Anyway, I knew commenting on a political thread was a mistake. Won’t happen again.

 

[Is it PotG?]

<sigh>



I can draw you a diagram if you like

The most respected, revered and listened to posters on here are surely those not having to resort to patronising and glib put downs.

 

[A mex eyecan]

It’s not rarer examples. For every ££££ Brighton College, there are dozens of small nurturing schools.

spending what?
It would take far more than dozens of these to outspend the likes of Bton COLLEGE, roedean, Hurst etc etc

 

[A mex eyecan]

Apparently there has been a misunderstanding so I'm happy to retract the comment.

and I likewise deleted my post you have replied to. Sorry.

 

[Harry Wilson's tackle]

Are you being deliberately thick or just provocative? I though HTs unnecessarily patronising response was wanky - not the argument

See what I mean? This looks like a reply to me about my comment ('the reaction' being my comment). I thought that was both rude and somewhat baffling. Oh, my, what fun we have in the soundless world of text correspondence. Apologies again

 

[Harry Wilson's tackle]

Accepted of course…easy confusion on here sometimes

Anyway, I knew commenting on a political thread was a mistake. Won’t happen again.

Sensible engagement from people like yourself is useful on the politics threads.

 

[dazzer6666]

See what I mean? This looks like a reply to me about my comment ('the reaction' being my comment). I thought that was both rude and somewhat baffling. Oh, my, what fun we have in the soundless world of text correspondence. Apologies again

View attachment 168619

Shouldn’t be if you look at where I started

 

[Harry Wilson's tackle]

Shouldn’t be if you look at where I started

View attachment 168623

Leave it. I'm not worth it.

 

[WATFORD zero]

Even if VAT charges were introduced, the charitable status remains and it's not as if Public schools have been asked to train their own staff, the state still supplies all of them.

The public system will still get heavily subsidised by the poorest in society paying the most taxes, don't panic. It's not as if anything much is going to change that much

 

[Weststander]

Even if VAT charges were introduced, the charitable status remains and it's not as if Public schools have been asked to train their own staff, the state still supplies all of them.

The public system will still get heavily subsidised by the poorest in society paying the most taxes, don't panic. It's not as if anything much is going to change that much

You could say the same for dentists. An interesting R5 discussion on this on Monday. It costs £250k of public money to train a dentist, their student loan at the end of it tiny by comparison, unless they have rich parents so nil. Immediately most leave for the much higher paid (sky’s the limit) private sector.

A social minded dentist from Stepney telephoned in, he refuses to do private work, he said there should be a contract where for say 8 years post qualifying you have to work as an NHS dentist.

 

[WATFORD zero]

You could say the same for dentists. An interesting R5 discussion on this on Monday. It costs £250k of public money to train a dentist, their student loan at the end of it tiny by comparison, unless they have rich parents so nil. Immediately most leave for the much higher paid (sky’s the limit) private sector.

A social minded dentist from Stepney telephoned in, he refuses to do private work, he said there should be a contract where for say 8 years post qualifying you have to work as an NHS dentist.

Agree completely, but I suspect that something equally sensible in education would put up the prices of public schools by a lot more than the proposed VAT

 

[A mex eyecan]

You could say the same for dentists. An interesting R5 discussion on this on Monday. It costs £250k of public money to train a dentist, their student loan at the end of it tiny by comparison, unless they have rich parents so nil. Immediately most leave for the much higher paid (sky’s the limit) private sector.

A social minded dentist from Stepney telephoned in, he refuses to do private work, he said there should be a contract where for say 8 years post qualifying you have to work as an NHS dentist.

and dare I say the same for doctors and consultants (unless of course there already is and i’m wrong)

and so there should be for anyone who’s training costs are bourse by the public purse.

 

[Seagull27]

It’s not rarer examples. For every ££££ Brighton College, there are dozens of small nurturing schools.

Throwing in my opinion, for what it's worth - I agree that the Eton type private schools are the minority, and the majority have kids from fairly normal families. It's completely understandable that parents want the best for their kids and if they see private education as important then they'll spend the money on it, possibly at the expense of other comforts. Many parents will be working very hard to keep up with the fees.

However. Those parents are still in a privileged position compared to most with kids at state schools. There are many more parents working equally hard at the moment just to make ends meet, and no matter what they do, could never afford to send their kids to private school.

Regardless of how hard parents work to pay for it, private education is a luxury that many don't have access to and should therefore be charged VAT.

To be honest, I'd welcome similar conversations on private healthcare, though it's a bit more complex.

 

[beorhthelm]

This with bells on.
Mine isn’t a view formed from envy in the slightest. Private education offers huge benefits and I dare say if I could afford it for my family I just may do so.
My view is purely down to fairness.
There is no real justification as to why they should be VAT exempt whatsoever. It’s not just the vat on school fees that the country misses out on, it’s everything that the school buys, form basic cleaning and washroom products to the countless millions on building works. It’s a colossal sum of money.

I would imagine they even get the reduced VAT taken off their fuel bills. Just think of that the next time you moan about your monthly bill and that you’re struggling to heat your home, or you hear about some poor old soul who sits freezing because they can’t pay for it. Is that fair? No of course it’s not and neither is it defensible.

the justification would be education shouldn't be taxed. now we accept private schools are to have VAT, follows private tuition, special education, university etc should be VAT rated. it's odd how selective the call for VAT to be added is.

 

[Weststander]

Throwing in my opinion, for what it's worth - I agree that the Eton type private schools are the minority, and the majority have kids from fairly normal families. It's completely understandable that parents want the best for their kids and if they see private education as important then they'll spend the money on it, possibly at the expense of other comforts. Many parents will be working very hard to keep up with the fees.

However. Those parents are still in a privileged position compared to most with kids at state schools. There are many more parents working equally hard at the moment just to make ends meet, and no matter what they do, could never afford to send their kids to private school.

Regardless of how hard parents work to pay for it, private education is a luxury that many don't have access to and should therefore be charged VAT.

To be honest, I'd welcome similar conversations on private healthcare, though it's a bit more complex.

Independent schooling - it can be a necessity for parents with SEN kids who can’t get a ‘statement’, many such parents I truly can tell you are not higher rate tax payers. Which is no comfort to low income families who will never get that chance, we need to invest far more in education in general …. beyond the headline grabbing VAT on toffs kids.

Private healthcare - another complex issue. I’ve rarely heard anyone say the hospitals should be closed down. Huge numbers have turned to them in recent years due to NHS backlog, for one off ops such as hips or knees, for quality of life. Ordinary folk using savings, credit card or pension lump sums. As with above, the problem is that the consultants were trained by the state, then jump ship partly or in full for the riches of private work. How do we solve that?

 

[Weststander]

the justification would be education shouldn't be taxed. now we accept private schools are to have VAT, follows private tuition, special education, university etc should be VAT rated. it's odd how selective the call for VAT to be added is.

It’s a simple to collect spite tax. Let’s add 20% to fees, to end the privileged world of independent schooling and the British class system. Not my words, James O’Brien’s and left wing think tank guests. Except the wealthy will just pay more, it won’t alter their offsprings uni and careers destiny one jot.

 

[Seagull27]

Independent schooling - it can be a necessity for parents with SEN kids who can’t get a ‘statement’, many such parents I truly can tell you are not higher rate tax payers. Which is no comfort to low income families who will never get that chance, we need to invest far more in education in general …. beyond the headline grabbing VAT on toffs kids.

Private healthcare - another complex issue. I’ve rarely heard anyone say the hospitals should be closed down. Huge numbers have turned to them in recent years due to NHS backlog, for one off ops such as hips or knees, for quality of life. Ordinary folk using savings, credit card or pension lump sums. As with above, the problem is that the consultants were trained by the state, then jump ship partly or in full for the riches of private work. How do we solve that?

I'd be completely behind those with special needs that can't be met my state schools, having their private education funded by the state. Perhaps paid for by VAT raised from private fees.

And to clarify on healthcare - I'm not suggesting private hospitals should be shut down, far from it, they are key in our healthcare system. But perhaps they should not be VAT exempt (both for patients and the hospitals/companies) for as much as they are.