Should the UK abandon the minimum wage

[looney]

Since when are company owners obliged to pay themselves minimum wage? They're not. When a firm starts to hire people beyond their founders they're going to have to pay them proper money, simple as. It may be less than what they'll get in a few years but the firm is successful but if you think you can hire any skilled employee for less than minimum wage, you're delusional.

Also, the long term unemployed are not going to work for less than minimum wage; seeing as minimum wage as it is is usually a step down in total value from the benefits they receive - and if they did, any shortfall will have to be made up by the state in benefits.

I'm not delusional its just your pig ignorant, trainee barristers work for nothing in their first year but are more than compensated later on in law firms with very high wages and becomming partners in the firm. Its a common enough expectation among the ambitious.

The same applies to any fledgling business given the oppertunity people would forgow income now for far larger returns in the future. You may have a point if the employment has limited prospects but even then it can act as a gateway for the longterm unemployed. It would also weed out the cheats

Yes any shortfall would be made up by benefits, it already is for unemployed people on work programmes, its just the same for the low paid who claim "tax credits", its already happening.

 

[Guy Fawkes]

I actually think that the minimum wage is too low and adding to the credit crisis, The reason, Because those on very low wages have no longer got much disposable income, and getting worse off each year as basics increase faster than there wages

Every year wages go up as a percentage, so that means that those at the top get far more extra money each year, and those at the bottom get poorer, especially as costs of living have been increasing faster that their wages have been rising, those at the higher end of wages do not have the same pressures on their finances, therefore less likely to consider those when setting prices / tax levels etc

eg- 2.5% increase means someone earning £100,000 gets £2.500 extra, whereas those on £15,000 gets just £375, yet expected to pay the same extra increases in costs, such as electricity, taxes etc, something that is unsustainable while those costs are increasing by 7 % or more on unavoidable costs,

when all the disposable income has gone, how are they supposed to make ends meet, before they were borrowing cash cheaply to survive, now that option has been taken away, no wonder the economy is crashing, yet those decision makers are not suffereing the same way as those at the bottom, and therefore unlikely to even consider the effects on them when they set prices, or wage levels.

 

[Cian]

I'm not delusional its just your pig ignorant, trainee barristers work for nothing in their first year but are more than compensated later on in law firms with very high wages and becomming partners in the firm. Its a common enough expectation among the ambitious.

The same applies to any fledgling business given the oppertunity people would forgow income now for far larger returns in the future. You may have a point if the employment has limited prospects but even then it can act as a gateway for the longterm unemployed. It would also weed out the cheats

Yes any shortfall would be made up by benefits, it already is for unemployed people on work programmes, its just the same for the low paid who claim "tax credits", its already happening.

Being called pig ignorant by a Tory, thats a compliment if I ever had one.

The 'devilling' done by trainee barristers is part of their training; it is entirely unconnected and incomparable to a new firm hiring people below minimum wage with vague promises of 'future prospects'. Find me an engineer, accountant, programmer, etc who would ever work for below minimum wage - you won't. They may work for a significantly reduced wage in return for equity or similar, but 'significantly reduced' from 40,000+ is not below minimum wage.

You suggested letting firms employ people below minimum wage to prevent them needing state funding to hire long term unemployed - all this does is move the state funding from the employer to the employee directly. Same beneficial recipient, same cost to the state; overall result is employer thinks he can get away with paying buttons. Net benefit to the state is nil, net benefit to society is nil.

 

[Southover Street Seagull]

Yes that's the one, New Labour copied down to a tee

The New Labour that is mentioned by people like you on this board as left wing?

 

[Westdene Seagull]

Sadly ... no.

From HM Revenue Customs:National Minimum Wage

What are the current rates of the national minimum wage?

There are three levels of minimum wage, and the rates from 1 October 2008 are:

£5.73 per hour for workers aged 22 years and older
A development rate of £4.77 per hour for workers aged 18-21 inclusive
£3.53 per hour for all workers under the age of 18, who are no longer of compulsory school age

As someone that has had issues with the new age discrimination laws ( employing people rather than myself ) and fail to see why or how it is legal to set a minimum wage based on AGE. Minimum wage should be a blanket minimum wage regardless of age. The current legislation discrimintates against people based on their age - a complete contridiction. Then again why should I be surprised - the political parties are allowed to discriminate based on gender !!!

 

[dougdeep]

As someone that has had issues with the new age discrimination laws ( employing people rather than myself ) and fail to see why or how it is legal to set a minimum wage based on AGE. Minimum wage should be a blanket minimum wage regardless of age. The current legislation discrimintates against people based on their age - a complete contridiction. Then again why should I be surprised - the political parties are allowed to discriminate based on gender !!!

But if it was one minimum age for all, there would be no incentive to employ school leavers.

 

[Westdene Seagull]

But if it was one minimum age for all, there would be no incentive to employ school leavers.

Easy - give the companies tax breaks rather than discriminate against the individual.

Also, I hire school leavers to fill roles that more experienced staff would not want to do - helpdesk operators etc - I don't hire them because they are cheaper than an older applicant.

 

[Cian]

But if it was one minimum age for all, there would be no incentive to employ school leavers.

What jobs are so skill-less that they can get people for the reduced minimum? Here even McDonalds et al pay the full 'adult' minimum wage for all rather than the 80% 18-21 allowed wage.

 

[User removed 4]

Minimum wage should be raised to £10 ph. That's not the issue. MAXIMUM wage should be circa £50, 000 p.a, any extra taxed at 95%. All extra revenue thus gained put into health, education, social housing and other pressing community issues. Anyone who moans about this should be made to support Palace.
Happy New Year.

because top rate tax worked so well in the 70's didnt it ? and i support the minimum wage by the way.

 

[User removed 4]

Can you be a bit more specific about copying every policy? This is a very vague, tired and broad statement often associated with pub bores who have little economic understanding beyond the Queen's head on a coin.

whats your level of economic understanding then HT ?

 

[Herr Tubthumper]

whats your level of economic understanding then HT ?

I dont have a formal qualification in economics but I like to think I can make a half decent argument on economic policy beyond simply wanting the Queen's head on my coin.

You?

P.S. If I could have my education all over again I would chose economics. I did a little bit during my university days and enjoyed it.

 

[Herr Tubthumper]

whats your level of economic understanding then HT ?

P.S. In saying that I do look forward to the day we join the euro as I like architecture and the euro mint plump for buildings and engineering on their coins. No Queen's head, the euro and a fancy building win-win-win.

 

[Lord Bracknell]

I like to think I can make a half decent argument on economic policy beyond simply wanting the Queen's head on my coin.

Why would a UK euro coin not have the queen's head on it?

Dutch euro coins have Queen Beatrix on them.

You could, in fact, make a case for saying that the pound only started going down the pan once they decided (in 1960) to put the queen's picture on it.

 

[brightonlass2009]

getting rid of the minimum wage is a stupid idea. Many companies are already trying to take advantage of their employees by paying them about 2p over the min wage (TIE RACK, TIE RACK, TIE RACK, bastards). If the minimum wage was to go people would be taken advantage of even more, I could see people being paid £1 an hour because of the economic situation.

Bloody stupid idea.

 

[Herr Tubthumper]

Why would a UK euro coin not have the queen's head on it?

Dutch euro coins have Queen Beatrix on them.

You could, in fact, make a case for saying that the pound only started going down the pan once they decided (in 1960) to put the queen's picture on it.

I thought they decided against putting heads on coins.....but clearly I got this wrong. Most coins I've seen tend to have buildings or bridges or other designs on them though.

 

[Herr Tubthumper]

I've clearly got this wrong as Spanish coins have the King on them.....or Homer Simpson!

Head of Homer Simpson on 1 Euro Coin - Economy - Javno

 

[Pavilionaire]

I support the notion of a National Minimum Wage and I think the pay levels are about right. Any more and employers might not both to recruit either legally or at all, and any less and people couldn't afford to live in this country.

However, any reform of the status quo has to be done with reference to benefits / tax credits.

 

[Pantani]

I think that the scrapping of the minimum wage would be absolutely disastrous for the economy of Brighton. We have the youngest population in the UK and an economy almost entirely based on the leisure and tourism industries. Whilst it is a generalisation to presume that that younger people and these industries pay the minimum wage I feel that it is mostly true. If all of these people were paid less the amount of disposable income available to people would ensure that many shops, pubs etc would go out of business, as we are seeing anyway. This would then lead to Brighton becoming much like other seaside towns throughout Britain that have some of the highest rates of unemployment and are like ghost towns full of charity shops.

 

[Tom Hark Preston Park]

I think it's valid that at some point the politicians should have the option of freezing or even lowering the minimum wage as well as raising it. Theoretically, like. Political suicide to be sure, though the option should remain. But any serious business plan that doesn't build in the minimum wage as a given should be sent to sit in the corner and think about what its business planned

 

[seagullsovergrimsby]

What jobs are so skill-less that they can get people for the reduced minimum? Here even McDonalds et al pay the full 'adult' minimum wage for all rather than the 80% 18-21 allowed wage.

McDonalds restaurants are run as franchises so like taking on 16 year olds to reduce wage costs in this part of the UK.