Should rape victims receive less compensation if they've been drinking?

[Buzzer]

*psst* Adrie. I'd probably not post on this sort of thread if I were you. You're gonna get slaughtered whatever you say.

You might want to think about editing out that last sentence of yours too. Rape generally means that it was unconsenting however you dress it up.


Edit - too late, others have picked you up on it.

 

[1066gull]

Encouraged rape?

I would defy you to find a rape victim who actually encouraged a man to violate them against their wishes.

Ever seen the film Straw Dogs?

It was banned for 20 years because it was so controversial about the rape scene. They portrayed the woman as almost enjoying it, and they feared it sent out the wrong message.

 

[Buzzer]

Ever seen the film Straw Dogs?

It was banned for 20 years because it was so controversial about the rape scene. They portrayed the woman as almost enjoying it, and they feared it sent out the wrong message.

No, no and no. Please Adrie. Just leave it. You will get torn apart.

 

[Lord Large]

Ever seen the film Straw Dogs?

It was banned for 20 years because it was so controversial about the rape scene. They portrayed the woman as almost enjoying it, and they feared it sent out the wrong message.

Yes, but what does that have to do with anything?

I think you generally get a rough deal on here from the looks of things. But leaving comments like "if the woman is found to have encouraged it.." probably don't help your cause very much fella.

 

[Nemesis]

To be honest they were probably up for it at the time, all birds are after a few vodka spritzers, so if they do somehow manage to snare some poor fella then I don't reckon they should entitled to as much cash.

Thoughts?

Now see what you've gone and started?

 

[Lady Whistledown]

No.


If the women has in fact encouraged it, then of course they should receive less.

Oh FFS...! If you encourage someone to have sex with you, then it is consensual, and thus not rape. From your regular postings on here, it hardly sounds as though you're the expert on the subject anyway, so perhaps you should stick to things you know a little about.

One of my specialisations at work is dealing with victims of sexual assaults, be they male or female. I can honestly say, that out of the dozens of people I've dealt with, I've only ever met one who I've thought was making it up. Even if a female drinks fifteen pints and passes out, you can't take that as consent, purely because she was unconscious and thus didn't strictly say no.

What possesses someone to try and have sex with a woman who's borderline unconscious anyway for God's sake, how can you possibly construe that as OK?

I hate this drunkenness argument. If you guys went out, drank a bottle of vodka, and then got stabbed in a fight, nobody would say you deserved it because you'd been drinking.

 

[bhaexpress]

Oh FFS...! If you encourage someone to have sex with you, then it is consensual, and thus not rape. From your regular postings on here, it hardly sounds as though you're the expert on the subject anyway, so perhaps you should stick to things you know a little about.

One of my specialisations at work is dealing with victims of sexual assaults, be they male or female. I can honestly say, that out of the dozens of people I've dealt with, I've only ever met one who I've thought was making it up. Even if a female drinks fifteen pints and passes out, you can't take that as consent, purely because she was unconscious and thus didn't strictly say no.

What possesses someone to try and have sex with a woman who's borderline unconscious anyway for God's sake, how can you possibly construe that as OK?

I hate this drunkenness argument. If you guys went out, drank a bottle of vodka, and then got stabbed in a fight, nobody would say you deserved it because you'd been drinking.

The voice of reason rides again.

 

[Uncle C]

I hate this drunkenness argument. If you guys went out, drank a bottle of vodka, and then got stabbed in a fight, nobody would say you deserved it because you'd been drinking.

This is not about deserving it, its about encouraging it and contributing to your own downfall. If a bloke got drunk and was mouthing of to a retard with a knife then I would say he did contribute.

 

[Lady Whistledown]

This is not about deserving it, its about encouraging it and contributing to your own downfall. If a bloke got drunk and was mouthing of to a retard with a knife then I would say he did contribute.

But that would not be a legitimate defence for his assailant in court.

He could not stand there in the dock and say he was provoked into stabbing another person because that person was "asking for it".

Victims in rape cases, meanwhile, frequently face the humiliation of having defence barristers suggest to them that they were asking for it because they were dressed in a particular way, or had consumed six Bacardi Breezers prior to the incident.

Let me put it this way.

If you had a sixteen year old daughter, who went out in a short skirt, had a few drinks, and was then pinned down and forced into sex by a male "friend" at a party, would you

(a) console her, feel angry beyond belief, and do everything in your power to bring the lad to justice

or

(b) say to her "Never mind, I know it's not the best thing to happen to you today love, but come on, you did encourage it and contribute to your own downfall, didn't you?".

 

[SULLY COULDNT SHOOT]

Rape is Rape... end of...

If you start bending this you will be encouraging men to get women drunk as they have a better chance of getting away with it.

 

[Twinkle Toes]

Oh FFS...! If you encourage someone to have sex with you, then it is consensual, and thus not rape. From your regular postings on here, it hardly sounds as though you're the expert on the subject anyway, so perhaps you should stick to things you know a little about.

One of my specialisations at work is dealing with victims of sexual assaults, be they male or female. I can honestly say, that out of the dozens of people I've dealt with, I've only ever met one who I've thought was making it up. Even if a female drinks fifteen pints and passes out, you can't take that as consent, purely because she was unconscious and thus didn't strictly say no.

What possesses someone to try and have sex with a woman who's borderline unconscious anyway for God's sake, how can you possibly construe that as OK?

I hate this drunkenness argument. If you guys went out, drank a bottle of vodka, and then got stabbed in a fight, nobody would say you deserved it because you'd been drinking.

Spot on edna. I find it really worrying when I read the kind of stuff that some people have come out with on here (& elsewhere) regarding this subject.

 

[Mendoza]

No.

Yes women should look after themselves, but men should act appropriately and think of other people.

If the women has in fact encouraged it, then of course they should receive less.

Mutual Rape?

How does that work??

 

[Lady Whistledown]

Seriously, I know this is an issue that divides people like few other areas of the legal system, but take it from me, rape has an impact on the victim that few other crimes do. Many rape victims say they'd rather have been stabbed, or battered, because at least then they have visible symptoms, and they feel like they're taken seriously and given the care they need. But because of the stigma attached, they don't want to talk about it to other people, they don't get sent flowers and cards, and only a few family members and/or friends find out.

It's not uncommon for women to freeze in the situation- people assume that if somebody is forcing you into the act you'll fight, kick, scream or whatever, and thus if a victim has no injuries, they assume she must have consented. But frequently they don't fight, through fear, or a sort of detachment from reality, like they can't quite believe it's happening.

And they regularly blame themselves, and have to deal with the unwarranted guilt that goes with that. Read the article below, it's an account of a stranger rape in London. Interesting that, even when a strange man jumped out of a hedge, held a knife to her throat and raped her, she still had concerns afterwards that she'd somehow asked for it by having a few drinks that night.

http://www.guardian.co.uk/lifeandstyle/2008/aug/15/women.ukcrime

By her own admission, she'd had a few. Anybody still think she deserves less compensation because of it?

 

[Uncle C]

But that would not be a legitimate defence for his assailant in court.

He could not stand there in the dock and say he was provoked into stabbing another person because that person was "asking for it".

Victims in rape cases, meanwhile, frequently face the humiliation of having defence barristers suggest to them that they were asking for it because they were dressed in a particular way, or had consumed six Bacardi Breezers prior to the incident.

Let me put it this way.

If you had a sixteen year old daughter, who went out in a short skirt, had a few drinks, and was then pinned down and forced into sex by a male "friend" at a party, would you

(a) console her, feel angry beyond belief, and do everything in your power to bring the lad to justice

or

(b) say to her "Never mind, I know it's not the best thing to happen to you today love, but come on, you did encourage it and contribute to your own downfall, didn't you?".

I would sit down with her beforehand and explain the very real dangers that exist if she goes out half dressed and gets drunk and therefore comes on strong to a bloke.

Wearing short dresses is OK, getting dunk is OK, coming on to a bloke is OK, but doing all three is contributing to your own downfall.

I'm not saying this is right, but if a girl puts herself in this situation she doesn't deserve to get raped, but she is increasing the chance it will happen.

 

[Mendoza]

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[Uncle C]

By her own admission, she'd had a few. Anybody still think she deserves less compensation because of it?

You've have picked a very extreme case to prove your general point. Nobody would say she deserved it. In other cases women do conrtibute to their own downfall.

 

[Lady Whistledown]

I would sit down with her beforehand and explain the very real dangers that exist if she goes out half dressed and gets drunk and therefore comes on strong to a bloke.

Wearing short dresses is OK, getting dunk is OK, coming on to a bloke is OK, but doing all three is contributing to your own downfall.

I'm not saying this is right, but if a girl puts herself in this situation she doesn't deserve to get raped, but she is increasing the chance it will happen.

I can kind of understand where you're coming from, although I don't necessarily agree.

But I still think that you'd think differently if it was your daughter. And I also think it reflects badly on men if, as you seem to be suggesting, they can't be responsible for their own actions if a drunk woman wearing a short skirt gives them the eye. If I was a bloke, that would set alarm bells ringing, but it seems plenty still view that as an easy opportunity to get their end away.

Let's be honest, going out and getting drunk increases all of our chances of being a victim of crime- be it having a wallet stolen or getting punched in the face. But we go out and do it anyway, don't we?

But that just doesn't seem to be a topic for debate like rape is. Nobody writes articles suggesting someone who got bottled in a nightclub should get less compensation after they'd had a few pints.

 

[Herr Tubthumper]

I can kind of understand where you're coming from, although I don't necessarily agree.

But I still think that you'd think differently if it was your daughter. And I also think it reflects badly on men if, as you seem to be suggesting, they can't be responsible for their own actions if a drunk woman wearing a short skirt gives them the eye. If I was a bloke, that would set alarm bells ringing, but it seems plenty still view that as an easy opportunity to get their end away.

Let's be honest, going out and getting drunk increases all of our chances of being a victim of crime- be it having a wallet stolen or getting punched in the face. But we go out and do it anyway, don't we?

But that just doesn't seem to be a topic for debate like rape is. Nobody writes articles suggesting someone who got bottled in a nightclub should get less compensation after they'd had a few pints.

Using this line of reasoning and taking it to it conclusion ALL crime in involving alcohol would be victimless.

 

[Uncle C]

I also think it reflects badly on men if, as you seem to be suggesting, they can't be responsible for their own actions if a drunk woman wearing a short skirt gives them the eye. If I was a bloke, that would set alarm bells ringing, but it seems plenty still view that as an easy opportunity to get their end away.

You are falling into the trap of think that all men think and act the same way you would.
Out in the World men have an infinite range of morals, intelligence and most importantly in these cases the ability to read and understand others actions.

Many men will not act like you or I, and its these men that 'innocent' girls can encounter if they do not have their wits about them.

 

[Uncle C]

Using this line of reasoning and taking it to it conclusion ALL crime in involving alcohol would be victimless.

Just as well nobody does that then.