Safe standing for the North stand

[Grendel]

good video on the subject: YouTube - Broadcast Yourself.

makes a good point about how league 1 and 2 clubs are allowed terracing yet championship/PL clubs arnt which seems a bit strange.

Pretty sure that lower league clubs were exempted on the basis that:

(a) most lower league clubs rarely have crowds anywhere near capacity
(b) the cost of making their grounds all-seater would put a lot of lower league clubs out of business

 

[Dirk Gently]

Pretty sure that lower league clubs were exempted on the basis that:

(a) most lower league clubs rarely have crowds anywhere near capacity
(b) the cost of making their grounds all-seater would put a lot of lower league clubs out of business

The regulations, ludicrous as they are, is that a team coming into Tier 2 must convert after 3 years at that level - so Peterborough must convert this year or close the standing terrace (unless they get a special extension, generally only granted to clubs that can show they're going to move.) If Scunthorpe hadn't been related, the cost of converting would have probably pushed them into administration - conspiracy theorists think Scunny were happy to be relegated because it was the most cost-effective option for them. If they're promoted they'll have to convert immediately.

And, top prove how stupid this really is, Bradford City aren't allowed to have standing, despite their small crowds and being in Tier 4, because they spent more than 3 years in Tiers 1&2 - no going back.

Oh, and the football foundation won't give grants for any club schemes which include standing provision, even in tiers 3&4.

 

[spoonie]

would nearly double the capacity if northstand was safe standing.

 

[Dirk Gently]

As long as the concourse and escape routes could cope with the extra capacity.

 

[Billy the Fish]

Hopefully once the jocks install it they'll prove that it's perfectly safe. The argument for allowing it grows more and more compelling all the time.

The FSF are doing a great job of educating people. When the subject is raised too many people instantly think of the old terraces but I think attitudes are slowly changing.

It'll happen one day, it's what the people want and it's common sense

 

[spoonie]

just a bit confused why anyone would vote no ? plenty of seats to sit in why not those that want to stand stand !

 

[rocker959]

Bring standing back asap and can I, my Sis, Dad and friends have our old stanchion back please, ta very much !!!

 

[Storer 68]

i really do get the feeling that there might be change in the laws soon. every argument against has been fought off and since their doing it north of the boarder, i think we might see fairly soon.

Really. No enthusiasm for it in my government department . and which one is that I hear you ask? The one that would have to make the decision!

 

[Storer 68]

The regulations, ludicrous as they are, is that a team coming into Tier 2 must convert after 3 years at that level - so Peterborough must convert this year or close the standing terrace (unless they get a special extension, generally only granted to clubs that can show they're going to move.) If Scunthorpe hadn't been related, the cost of converting would have probably pushed them into administration - conspiracy theorists think Scunny were happy to be relegated because it was the most cost-effective option for them. If they're promoted they'll have to convert immediately.

And, top prove how stupid this really is, Bradford City aren't allowed to have standing, despite their small crowds and being in Tier 4, because they spent more than 3 years in Tiers 1&2 - no going back.

Oh, and the football foundation won't give grants for any club schemes which include standing provision, even in tiers 3&4.

Well BHA aren't exactly innocent of such thinking either.

In 1979. or possibly 1980, but I thnbk 19719, the south stand at the Goldstone mysteriously caught fire after a game, and as a result the stand was converted from terrace/seat combination , to an all seater stand.

now the fact that that we were working hard on going up to Division1 and needed the ground to conform to the required level of seats (that we didn't have) could have been huge co-incidence! But then again it might not!

 

[bn1&bn3 Albion]

Well BHA aren't exactly innocent of such thinking either.

In 1979. or possibly 1980, but I thnbk 19719, the south stand at the Goldstone mysteriously caught fire after a game, and as a result the stand was converted from terrace/seat combination , to an all seater stand.

now the fact that that we were working hard on going up to Division1 and needed the ground to conform to the required level of seats (that we didn't have) could have been huge co-incidence! But then again it might not!

How was the future?

 

[El Presidente]

i really do get the feeling that there might be change in the laws soon. every argument against has been fought off and since their doing it north of the boarder, i think we might see fairly soon.

Whilst there is no rational reason for stopping standing, whenever a debate takes place a relative from the Hillsborough disaster is wheeled out and they are totally opposed to it, although it was fencing, that terracing, that was a direct cause of the deaths. Politicians are unwilling to upset that particular pressure group, and the Premier League used all seater stadia as a means of jacking up admission prices and raise revenues. The big clubs don't want terracing as it would be difficult to justify the amount they charge. It is also part of the middle class sanitisation of the game, as the corporates that run football want more women, kids and other non-traditional fans to watch the game.

In Germany you can watch a match at Borussia Dortmund for about £12, compared to £28-£50 at Old Trafford.

 

[Mutts Nuts]

Hopefully once the jocks install it they'll prove that it's perfectly safe. The argument for allowing it grows more and more compelling all the time.

The FSF are doing a great job of educating people. When the subject is raised too many people instantly think of the old terraces but I think attitudes are slowly changing.

It'll happen one day, it's what the people want and it's common sense

The Dortmund terrace holds 25,000 and is safe as houses, the atmosphere looks to be amazing

 

[yxee]

also an example of what it would look like:

didn't realise they also have small metal seats attached so you can rest at half time, surely this would mean the capacity would no longer be increased which is a shame

My understanding is this..

During a league game the red seats are locked in the vertical position by a steward, and there are two levels per division, so between the barriers there are two rows of people . Then for a U21 game the stewards go round with a key and unlock all the seats, effectively halving the capacity and complying with "all-seater" regulations.

It's like having your cake and eating it.... safely!


edit-I just noticed someone else said the exact same thing

 

[Storer 68]

How was the future?

Disastrous!

 

[Storer 68]

My understanding is this..

During a league game the red seats are locked in the vertical position by a steward, and there are two levels per division, so between the barriers there are two rows of people . Then for a U21 game the stewards go round with a key and unlock all the seats, effectively halving the capacity and complying with "all-seater" regulations.

It's like having your cake and eating it.... safely!

But you need a lot of land to install it on. And we don;t have much. a simple stand of terract OR seats takesa alot less space. has anyone put the combi system into an existing stadium and increased the capacity? installing it into an existing footprint can cut the capacity by as much as 40 %. And that's an argument which cuts quite a lot of ice with clubs nowadays

 

[Mutts Nuts]

But you need a lot of land to install it on. And we don;t have much. a simple stand of terract OR seats takesa alot less space. has anyone put the combi system into an existing stadium and increased the capacity? installing it into an existing footprint can cut the capacity by as much as 40 %. And that's an argument which cuts quite a lot of ice with clubs nowadays

I don`t understand what it is you mean by needing a lot of land to install it on, sorry if i`m being a bit thick.Reports show replacing seats with safe standing will increase capacity by about 1.8 percent

 

[yxee]

I just assumed you can rip out the seats, concrete an extra half step on then fix some barriers. If there is enough room for someone to walk to their seat in the middle of a row there should be enough to have two people standing up, one behind the other.

 

[Storer 68]

The area of land required by a stand that incorporates th Kombi system is more than if it were simply a terrache or just seats. Stick such a system into an existing footprint of a relatively old English ground (say about 20 years old) and it will decrease the amount of peole you can fit into the stand.


A lot of German stadiums that use it were new ones built for the World cup.

Oh and UEFA expressely forbids any of the games under its jurisdiction to be plyayed in anything but all seater. So if you are a club like , say Fulham or Arsenal, that has already converted its ground to an all seater,or built a new all seater, why bother with the hassle and expense of ripping out the seats, putting in new concrete to make the terraces steeper, because the Kombi requires a deeper terrace that is usually utilised, and theerby reduce capacity . What is the benefit to the club?

 

[Storer 68]

I just assumed you can rip out the seats, concrete an extra half step on then fix some barriers. If there is enough room for someone to walk to their seat in the middle of a row there should be enough to have two people standing up, one behind the other.

The exits and entrances (vomitories is the technical term Iseem to recall from the Falmer construction) need to be wider to deal with the differeing scenarios - some days terrace, some days all seaer - You can't just bolt a seat to a terrace, which is the usual way of putting seats in. there has to be enough room for the seat to convert to terracing and for the converted terracing to be made safe. And for fans to be able to move safely So each seat that becomes a standing "pen" and also has a stantion to act as a barrier when converted.

 

[Mutts Nuts]

The area of land required by a stand that incorporates th Kombi system is more than if it were simply a terrache or just seats. Stick such a system into an existing footprint of a relatively old English ground (say about 20 years old) and it will decrease the amount of peole you can fit into the stand.


A lot of German stadiums that use it were new ones built for the World cup.

Oh and UEFA expressely forbids any of the games under its jurisdiction to be plyayed in anything but all seater. So if you are a club like , say Fulham or Arsenal, that has already converted its ground to an all seater,or built a new all seater, why bother with the hassle and expense of ripping out the seats, putting in new concrete to make the terraces steeper, because the Kombi requires a deeper terrace that is usually utilised, and theerby reduce capacity . What is the benefit to the club?

You are ranting on as if safe standing is being proposed as a compulsary installation into all grounds it is not, the proposals are for football clubs to have the choice . Aston Villa who are quite a big club are Keen to install it