[Politics] Russia invades Ukraine (24/02/2022)

[Gabbafella]

I hope the Ukrainian people know just how much respect people like me have for them. Watching the videos of unarmed civvies marching towards armed soldiers in absolute defiance is awe inspiring.
I don't know what I would do if faced with that situation, but I doubt I have the balls big enough. Their bravery is astonishing.

 

[Eeyore]

Yeap...

View attachment 145751

Oligarch is basically a more sinister word for entrepreneur.

So it's not a lot different to banning Richard Branson for being mates with Tony Blair. Mind you, Blair didn't start wars that ended up costing thousands of innocent lives.

 

[Green Cross Code Man]

[tweet]1500042914008817664[/tweet]

It appears that the fee has been waived, but we must speed this process up - no way should we be increasing the trauma for these poor people.

 

[Baldseagull]

Oligarch is basically a more sinister word for entrepreneur.

So it's not a lot different to banning Richard Branson for being mates with Tony Blair. Mind you, Blair didn't start wars that ended up costing thousands of innocent lives.

Did Tony Blair give British Airways to Richard Branson? If he did, then it would be similar, but he didn't did he. The Oligarchs are the people that Putin, or allies of, allowed to take control of state owned enterprises, they were not sold off, they were gifted with some conditions attached, like fund Putin. There might have been some crossover of genuine Russian entrepeneurs being referred to as Oligarchs, but by and large it is those people who gained by association with Putin or Putin's circle.

 

[Baker lite]

Mind you, Blair didn't start wars that ended up costing thousands of innocent lives.

Is this a whoooooosh?.

 

[Carlos BC]

If “we” get out of this without nuclear war, Putin is going to be the most hunted man on Earth. Nobody will protect him. I hope when he is captured, and he will be. Nobody is that powerful for very long. That he is literally air dropped into Ukraine to face the anger of those he has tormented.

History is not kind to those that play God.

Hung upside down whilst still alive, stomach sliced open and innards pulled out. A slow death would be nice.

 

[Eeyore]

Did Tony Blair give British Airways to Richard Branson? If he did, then it would be similar, but he didn't did he. The Oligarchs are the people that Putin, or allies of, allowed to take control of state owned enterprises, they were not sold off, they were gifted with some conditions attached, like fund Putin. There might have been some crossover of genuine Russian entrepeneurs being referred to as Oligarchs, but by and large it is those people who gained by association with Putin or Putin's circle.

This is, of course, the political side of things that forms part of any conflict.

The word 'Oligarch' is open to broad interpretation, and the media, depending on their own cupboards, will interpret it in a way that suits them.

How it plays out in this country is a side show of fascination to the main horror film. There is a ruling party who have relied on Russian funding for its operations. So this will return to the headlines.

Right now, as clear as things may seem. All of us are watching this through a misty glass.

There are two things the last week has reminded me. War is a dreadful thing with the lowest ranking in society suffering the most, and even the most respected media, or so we are told, cannot be relied upon for an nuanced, nonhomogeneous picture.

 

[jcdenton08]

Just for fun, how about nobody posts in this thread for a bit and we watch / listen to the game about to take place and support our lads in the football?

 

[A mex eyecan]

If “we” get out of this without nuclear war, Putin is going to be the most hunted man on Earth. Nobody will protect him. I hope when he is captured, and he will be. Nobody is that powerful for very long. That he is literally air dropped into Ukraine to face the anger of those he has tormented.

History is not kind to those that play God.

wouldn’t it be a nice dream that ‘when’ that happens all his billions, along with the billions owned by his little sycophants, are ceased and used to make good the losses of those poor people currently on the end of this sh1t being dished out right now.

but it won’t will it, the world sadly never seems to work that well ….

 

[A mex eyecan]

Just for fun, how about nobody posts in this thread for a bit and we watch / listen to the game about to take place and support our lads in the football?

you’re quite free to do that

 

[beorhthelm]

Did Tony Blair give British Airways to Richard Branson? If he did, then it would be similar, but he didn't did he. The Oligarchs are the people that Putin, or allies of, allowed to take control of state owned enterprises, they were not sold off, they were gifted with some conditions attached, like fund Putin. There might have been some crossover of genuine Russian entrepeneurs being referred to as Oligarchs, but by and large it is those people who gained by association with Putin or Putin's circle.

this isnt true, the basis of a myth. for a start most the oligarchs came into their positions under Yeltsin. they didnt simply get gifted companies, there was a public voucher shceme for public first. then loan backed purchase schemes which amounted to management by-ins, consolidating the ownership. yeah, they stay in place because of relations with Putin, toe the line and pay taxes to keep your company.

 

[Baldseagull]

this isnt true, the basis of a myth. for a start most the oligarchs came into their positions under Yeltsin. they didnt simply get gifted companies, there was a public voucher shceme for public first. then loan backed purchases schemes which amounted to management by-ins, consolidating the ownership. yeah, they stay in place because of relations with Putin, toe the line and pay taxes to keep your company.

I accept that "gifted" was an inaccurate word to use, and an over simplification of the reality, but I maintain that these guys are not entrepeneurs in anything like the same way we would understand Richard Branson to be, who just coincidentally happen to get on well with Putin.

 

[rogersix]

Just for fun, how about nobody posts in this thread for a bit and we watch / listen to the game about to take place and support our lads in the football?

that's exactly what putin wants us to do

 

[Flex Your Head]

Just an aside, but relevant. And very depressing.

https://www.theguardian.com/us-news/2022/mar/05/putin-ukraine-invasion-white-nationalists-far-right?CMP=Share_AndroidApp_Other

‘Key to white survival’: how Putin has morphed into a far-right savior.

 

[vegster]

you’re quite free to do that

I think he might be back here real soon.

 

[beorhthelm]

I accept that "gifted" was an inaccurate word to use, and an over simplification of the reality, but I maintain that these guys are not entrepeneurs in anything like the same way we would understand Richard Branson to be, who just coincidentally happen to get on well with Putin.

agree "entrepeneurs" isnt quite right either. opportunists is probably the best term. the west have cultivated an impression that a group of people stole business from the state, we hear the "kleptocracy", when really most were in the right place, or moved themself to be, to catch the ball.

 

[Eric the meek]

This is, of course, the political side of things that forms part of any conflict.

The word 'Oligarch' is open to broad interpretation, and the media, depending on their own cupboards, will interpret it in a way that suits them.

How it plays out in this country is a side show of fascination to the main horror film. There is a ruling party who have relied on Russian funding for its operations. So this will return to the headlines.

Right now, as clear as things may seem. All of us are watching this through a misty glass.

There are two things the last week has reminded me. War is a dreadful thing with the lowest ranking in society suffering the most, and even the most respected media, or so we are told, cannot be relied upon for an nuanced, nonhomogeneous picture.

if you are alluding to the most respected media here in Britain, can you give examples of where say, the BBC, SKY or ITV have broadcast misinformation?

Which of the oligarchs would you consider has had a 'bad press' here, and should be referred to as an 'entrepreneur' instead?

 

[ukpolska]

I am British and have lived in Poland for 21 years and at the moment I write this, I am at the Dorohusk Mitnitsa border crossing after taking down a tonne of supplies and this is my third trip this week.

Now I am in the process of picking up 25 Ukrainians for the trip back to Warsaw and it is a desperate situation with many children and wives devastated at leaving their husbands, which to me is a pointless regulation by the Ukrainian government as they are only accepting people to fight if they have previous weapons training, leaving 500,000 Ukrainian women in Poland to somehow find a job and feed themselves and their children.

Yes, there will be support from the EU and Poland, but it was a desperate decision by the Ukrainian government which wasn’t really thought through all that well as it is only going to cause further problems and suffering in the future with the husbands cut off from their families.

Rant over, I am tired I guess, but seeing all these displaced people is heartbreaking, especially the children.

 

[Half Time Pies]

agree "entrepeneurs" isnt quite right either. opportunists is probably the best term. the west have cultivated an impression that a group of people stole business from the state, we hear the "kleptocracy", when really most were in the right place, or moved themself to be, to catch the ball.

This is quite a good article: https://www.spectator.co.uk/article/the-downfall-of-russia-s-oligarchs

What we think as Oligarchs were the small group of men that seized anything of value that they could after the break up of the Soviet Union. The situation today is very different, when Putin came in to power he clamped down on them and went after their Money and power.

The people we call Oligarchs now are therefore not really Oligarchs. The are just working as Oligarchs. The assets of today's Oligarchs are de facto, if not de jure, under Putins control.

 

[Publius Ovidius]

Oligarch is basically a more sinister word for entrepreneur.

So it's not a lot different to banning Richard Branson for being mates with Tony Blair. Mind you, Blair didn't start wars that ended up costing thousands of innocent lives.

Oligarch is from the Greek word meaning “ the rule of the few”. I knew my classics degree would come to something eventually!

Extremely apt