Richard Dawkins to arrest Pope Benedict.!!!!!

[Gwylan]

Nice try sunshine, but I don't think any bible says what you quoted, and I suggest YOU type your quote into a search engine before you make any more wild and rubbish assertions!
Thanks for the though.
"infant's school" Taxi for bhaexpress

The King James has for Mathew 7:12

"Therefore all things whatsoever ye would that men should do to you, do ye even so to them: for this is the law and the prophets."

I think that is slightly different from "do unto others etc.." so NMH is on the right track. A better rendition of the words would be "If you don't want people to treat you like, don't be an arse."

 

[Gwylan]

apoliticial? no but seriously, you are fighting a one man battle here, defending the indefensible actions of the Catholic church in Nazi europe (acknowledged by the church so why do you deny it?) and the institutional inaction they have taken on abuse.

a major difference between muslims and christians is that latter have always followd centralised church authorities, while Islam has no such structure and its down to the individual local Imams to interpret the Koran as they see fit

That's not quite true. The whole point of Luther's break away from the Catholic church was that he saw that each Christian was responsible for the way he followed Christ and was not dependent on the leadership of priests.

There are plenty of Christians who have their own interpretation of the Bible. Apartheid, the murder of doctors who perform abortions and anti-homosexuality have all been supported by 'Christians' despite Christ having nothing to say on these subjects.

Agree you about TB supporting the indefensible though.

 

[beorhthelm]

Chamberlain's inactivity and appeasement of Hitler lead to him running roughshod over chunks of europe.

As a form of child abuse the UK government took thousands of children and sent them to Australia even though alot were not orphans. A great many were abused within government institutions.

Would you like to defend the indefensible actions of your nation?


And perhaps tell me whose actions/inactions had a larger impact.

just as a matter of perspective.

nope, im not going to defend the actions of the UK in the adoption scandle, not defend Chamberlains policy of appeasment. see, how easy was that. you seem to be quite happy to defned the Catholic church though, must be somthing in the communal wine.

and which had a larger impact? well, i dont recall Chamberlian actually voteing for or supporting the Nazis unlike millions of german catholics and many priests must have. again, the catholic church has acknowledged apologised for this dark moment in their history so why defend it? Time they did somthing about the child abuse.

That's not quite true. The whole point of Luther's break away from the Catholic church was that he saw that each Christian was responsible for the way he followed Christ and was not dependent on the leadership of priests.

fair point, i was thinking more the Catholics and the structured churches that followed the reformation. getting back to basics and individual reading and learning of the texts might make for better and more rounded beliefs/philosophy. some lead to happy clappy gourps, sadly though too many end up following a local cult-like preacher and it all goes a bit wrong.

 

[Tyrone Biggums]

If you think that the majority of Italians were not anti-semitic, you really should read some Primo Levi. Look at the opening chapter of The Periodic Table to see how deeply ingrained anti-semitism was deeply ingrained in Italy - not specifically Catholic I grant you, but are you going to tell me that Mussolini was voted in by the few percent of Protestants in Italy?

And Hitler's views weren't shaped by Lutherism. He was a Catholic: his mother was a devout Catholic and, as I said, he went to Catholic school and took communion in the Catholic church.

Mussolini was voted in by Catholics. No arguement there.

But his views were nothing like Hitler's in regards to the Jews.

And I do think overall the majority of Italians werent that bothered by the jews. Why else would they have one of the lowest rates of Jews arrested in Europe?

I only have to read Shakespeare if I want to see anti-semetic views of Jews in work.

Shylock in The Merchant of Venice?



Hitler by 1933 had no religion, he wasn't paying the religious taxes which in effect meant he wasnt a Catholic anymore perse.

By the time he came to power it was the teachings of Luther that he quoted, not the teachings of Jesus.

Plenty of atheists have gone to Catholic schools, that means very little.

 

[Tyrone Biggums]

nope, im not going to defend the actions of the UK in the adoption scandle, not defend Chamberlains policy of appeasment. see, how easy was that. you seem to be quite happy to defned the Catholic church though, must be somthing in the communal wine.

and which had a larger impact? well, i dont recall Chamberlian actually voteing for or supporting the Nazis unlike millions of german catholics and many priests must have. again, the catholic church has acknowledged apologised for this dark moment in their history so why defend it? Time they did somthing about the child abuse.

You don't need to defend it though.

It's was what happened in those times.

I merely brought it up to point out how stupid it is to point to such actions and say its an indicator that something is a bad apple.

When obviously there's hundreds more actions which show the UK did many a great thing during that period.




And i'm not denying catholics voted for Hitler.

But their numbers are signifigantly less than the majority Lutherans who brought him into power.

Yet this seems to not bother anyone as there's no anti-Lutheran sentiment here despite their actions leading to the death of 40 or 50 million people.

If people want to raise WW2 and the Nazis then lets have some parity please.


And I d believe they have started doing something about the child abuse, but its not going to get fixed overnight.

Every case should be investigated, because for every 5 legit cases who's to say there's not 1 or 2 boys crying wolf to try and earn a few $$$

Let's weed the truth out from the myths and heresay.

 

[NMH]

You act as though every priest is a paedophile. They are not it is a small minority.

Well I certainly don't mean to read that way - I did say "the predator..." and do mean them. The church being a safe haven for the predator is a huge mistake, one that this latest Dawkins affair is determining to identify and condemn.
I suggest he will succeed, even if not directly with legal enforcement - at least in publicity to embarrass the hierarchy that has veiled the crimes.

 

[Tyrone Biggums]

I honestly see Dawkins getting taken out.

He'll push the buttons of the wrong denomination or faith and someone will whack him.

 

[Gwylan]

If people want to raise WW2 and the Nazis then lets have some parity please.
/QUOTE]

I didn't raise WW2 and the Nazis, I was responding to your post.

There were plenty of ant-semitic texts around before Hitler - I don't know what point you're making. I'm certainly not saying that anti-semitism didn't exist before the Nazis. But I don't think that The Merchant of Venice is one of them BTW. Shylock doesn't behave well, it's true but he's a man who's been goaded by some very unpleasant Christians - it's not a crude anti-Jewish rant.

Marlowe's Jew of Malta on the other hand......

 

[Don Quixote]

I honestly see Dawkins getting taken out.

He'll push the buttons of the wrong denomination or faith and someone will whack him.

Me. I cannot be doing with his smug little face any longer.

 

[Tyrone Biggums]

Me. I cannot be doing with his smug little face any longer.

Don't do it.

You'll just make a martyr out of a sanctimonious twat.

 

[bhaexpress]

The King James has for Mathew 7:12

"Therefore all things whatsoever ye would that men should do to you, do ye even so to them: for this is the law and the prophets."

I think that is slightly different from "do unto others etc.." so NMH is on the right track. A better rendition of the words would be "If you don't want people to treat you like, don't be an arse."

You know being slated by NMH is a compliment by his standards, not that he has any. The gist of what I was saying is the point but never mind, we can't all be as up ourselves as Mr H.

 

[Tyrone Biggums]

If people want to raise WW2 and the Nazis then lets have some parity please.
/QUOTE]

I didn't raise WW2 and the Nazis, I was responding to your post.

There were plenty of ant-semitic texts around before Hitler - I don't know what point you're making. I'm certainly not saying that anti-semitism didn't exist before the Nazis. But I don't think that The Merchant of Venice is one of them BTW. Shylock doesn't behave well, it's true but he's a man who's been goaded by some very unpleasant Christians - it's not a crude anti-Jewish rant.

Marlowe's Jew of Malta on the other hand......

My point was that Hitler's anti-semitism didnt come from his Catholics teachings.

It was very much taken from Luther's anti-semetic writings and views which Hitler and the Nazis took right on board.

 

[Tyrone Biggums]

Anyways i'm going to bed.

Thanks for the good spirited discussion lads.

 

[MattBackHome]

Dawkins in the Washington Post on March 28th

The last paragraph is especially good.

 

[auschr]

the pope is paedo sympathising scum and should be locked up and have his balls cut off

 

[looney]

Surely you jest?

Henry the VIII was a total piece of shit.

Nothing the current Pope has done compares to what that prick did.

but Henry freed us from Rome.

 

[pork pie]

but Henry freed us from Rome.

And laid the foundations for Britain as we know it!

 

[Acker79]

Well nothing positive is ever said about them.

That would seem to be a rather large and one sided imbalance i'd say.

I really don't like that sentiment.

Juan Albion has expressed it in the past, too.

Why don't you start posting when the catholic church or any denomination of Christian church, does something particularly good, instead of complaining that no one else does?

I know Juan gives the, (no offence, Juan) wishy-washy excuse that "there's so much I'd be accused of spamming the board" as if it's impossible to show some restraint and post only the more significant things, as if i's impossible to start a post with an all encompassing "To balance out the bad press of the church, I thought it worth mentioning that along with their regular emotional, social, spiritual and physical support of its followers and those in need, along with the prayers for sick, the support in third world countries, and providing sanctuary for those in need; this is dome of the positive things the church has done this week/month/quarter..."


Or is it only important to you that the positive aspects of the church be mentioned when negative stuff is. Do the prayers for the sick and dying people, taking meals around to the elderly, providing soup kitchens for the homeless etc. does all that make institutional child abuse something we should tolerate?


By all means challenge and correct inaccurate, misleading, or downright wrong statements in the argument. But complaining that "no one ever says anything nice" in the middle of a discussion about how the church have allowed and enabled child abuse just seems wrong to me.


*Sorry, this wasn't meant to sound so accusatory, I just don' get people who complain that "no one ever posts..." when there's nothing to stop the doing so.

 

[Don Quixote]

The King of England already was the de facto head of the Church in England... Shows what you lot know.

 

[Dandyman]

Mussolini was voted in by Catholics. No arguement there.

But his views were nothing like Hitler's in regards to the Jews.

And I do think overall the majority of Italians werent that bothered by the jews. Why else would they have one of the lowest rates of Jews arrested in Europe?

I only have to read Shakespeare if I want to see anti-semetic views of Jews in work.

Shylock in The Merchant of Venice?



Hitler by 1933 had no religion, he wasn't paying the religious taxes which in effect meant he wasnt a Catholic anymore perse.

By the time he came to power it was the teachings of Luther that he quoted, not the teachings of Jesus.

Plenty of atheists have gone to Catholic schools, that means very little.

The Italian Fascists were not elected to government. The March on Rome was a coup d'état by which Mussolini's National Fascist Party came to power in Italy and ousted Prime Minister Luigi Facta. The "march" took place in 1922 between 27–29 October. On 28 October King Victor Emmanuel III refused his support to Facta and handed over power to Mussolini. Mussolini was supported by the military, big business and the Church of Rome.


The best record in Europe in defending their Jewish population is probably the Danes who ensured almost all Jewish Danish were got safely to Sweden.

Hitler and most of the leading Nazis were Roman Catholics and their anti-semitism was grounded in centuries of Christian persecution of Jews. The Vatican supported fascism in Italy, Spain, Portugal, Croatia and elsewhere and never condemned the Holocaust despite the undoubted bravery of many individual Roman Catholics who did oppose fascism and genocide.