Realistic alternatives to McGhee

[London Irish]

LI - I don't think it's about the league table (as you say, it's too early to judge anything by that) and nor do I think it's a knee jerk reaction to one bad defeat.

For me it's about the things that have been going wrong for ages, and are still going wrong. I think he was a very lucky man to survive last season, BUT those who were still backing him in May were generally doing so with the caveat of him needing to start this season well.

Well, he hasn't. Instead we are seeing that he still can't attract players, those he does get in he doesn't seem to know what to do with (Lowe), he is still falling out with players we need, unbelievable substitutions, nonsensical tactics and strange selections.

The look last season was of a set of players who just didn't seem to have any fight left in them, no leadership on the field and a distinct lack of it off the field. Plenty of people had seen enough of that to want McGhee gone then. To see the same problems this season, just comfirms that he is not going to be able to turn this around, and we are going to get more and more of the same. The collapse of last season from Xmas onwards was not a temporary set-back, it's what McGhee is all about.

He looks to have lost the players, and when you read childish digs like those he threw in Jarrett's direction when he left, and it's not hard to see how the players could lose respect for the man.

I'm not one to scream "McGhee OUT!" that's just not what I've ever done to any manager, but I've long since reached the point where I will not challenge someone who does shout it.

I'm not surprised you don't challenge, they've worn you down and you now you seem to agree with every one of the Magoo Outer's frankly highly rubbish arguments (every subbing is terrible, every defeat is tactical ineptitude, every player who doesn't sign has a grudge against McGhee, blah f***ing blah).

Poor start to the season? If we'd have won on Sunday, we'd have gone 3rd or 4th. That's a poor start to the season then? By what ludicrous standards? We were very unluckly to lose to the league leaders the previous week, we got plenty of praise from Forest commentators for our play. Poor start?

It's sad that people have overreated so badly to the Crewe defeat, but that seems to be the nature of footy discussion these days on here, wild, exaggerated over-hyped extremes.

I see the picture completely different to you. I see us playing some very good football, patient, on the ground build-up play, often too patient for the Withdean crowd at times with their restless cries of "get it forward" (the same people in the next breath would then criticise our "hoofball" )

Dario Gradi on Saturday even praised our style, comparing our passing play to Arsenal's approach. Ludicrous I know, we are much higher in the table than Arsenal

There was an implied criticism in Gradi's comment though, that we are being too fancy in a tough, hard-working league. Take a look at the killer second goal we conceded, the penalty and sending off from a miscued attempt to play out from the back by Lynch.

But there you go, Lynch will only learn the judgement of when to play and when to clear the ball (when we have just conceded a goal close to first-half injury time) with more games. That is what McGhee is doing so well, giving the teenagers like Lynch, Cox and Robinson their chance to develop.

The team does have weaknesses and does need strengthening in certain areas if we are going to have a realistic shot of the play-offs rather than settling in mid-table. But it's Dick Knight's job to secure those players for McGhee, that is the job of the chairman, his board members and their chequebook. It's bizarre myopia to blame our shortcomings in the transsfer market on McGhee who has brought many good players to this club, and under worse financial restrictions than Adams had to cope with in League 2! (see Dick Knight's very brave words at the recent Fans Forum).

 

[Uncle Spielberg]

I could do a job

 

[clapham_gull]

.. who has brought many good players to this club, and under worse financial restrictions than Adams had to cope with in League 2! (Dick Knight's very brave words at the recent Fans Forum).

Not wishing to stir things up, but was there generally more money knocking about in that league at that time ?

I honestly don't know.

I'm just wondering whether the above whilst true, has to be seen in respect of the other clubs current financial situation.

 

[Guinness Boy]

To answer the original question the obvious answer would be to give Dean Wilkins a crack. Were it all to go tits up we'd be well in to Autumn when the managerial merry go round gets set to 1000 RPM.

Someone with a twitchy chairman is going to lose a couple of games on the trot. Someone's going to throw a strop. Someone's going to be caught with their nose in the charly bag by the News of the Screws. That's pretty much all it takes to set clubs changing managers like Bruce Willis changes ammo clips.

 

[Tooting Gull]

Really simple question, LI. What would it take for YOU, personally, to come to the conclusion that McGhee was no longer the best person to be Brighton manager?

I ask that because for a lot of people, many of the things you'd look for to answer that question are already there/happening/not happening.

 

[dougdeep]

How about Peter Ward and Spider?

 

[BensGrandad]

How about Peter Ward and Spider?

Peter Ward would get the fans backing but has been away from the game in this country too long.

My preferred choice is Jamie Rednap as his dad would help us out with players to help his son or even better still Mandaric buy the club.

 

[London Irish]

Really simple question, LI. What would it take for YOU, personally, to come to the conclusion that McGhee was no longer the best person to be Brighton manager?

I ask that because for a lot of people, many of the things you'd look for to answer that question are already there/happening/not happening.

Well, there you go - I don't think those things are there.

If you look at the objectives set by Dick Knight, he was pretty clear, Mid-table + developing the younger players. It seems to me obvious with our decent start to the season that McGhee is fulfilling that quite comfortably.

Only a prolonged period adrift in the bottom eight of the table would really make me withdraw my support from McGhee. He is being provided with a midtable squad by the board, he is producing those results - and given that this wasn't an easy start to the season in fixtures, I can see us going a little bit higher than midtable, top 10 maybe. But we won't make the play-offs unless the board get those one or two better quality players in.

You are having a laugh if you think that situation would change under a rookie like Wilkins, the guy who earlier this year had to apologise to the whole youth team squad because of his overreaction to a game at Blackburn. Yeah, he's ready for the big time pressures of management

 

[London Irish]

I would guess that Cooper is one of these managers that would get a team well organised, very fit and playing for each other.

Not all that unlike Mr M Adams?

This would be the same Neale Cooper who pulled off the unique achievement of being sacked by two clubs in 2005, first at Hartlepool (unlucky there certainly) and then after steering the Gills into the League 1 relegation zone.

 

[Guinness Boy]

If you look at the objectives set by Dick Knight, he was pretty clear, Mid-table + developing the younger players. It seems to me obvious with our decent start to the season that McGhee is fulfilling that quite comfortably.

1. Objectives are set to be exceeded
2. 4-1 home defeats do not keep you mid table and whats more
3. You don't develop your young centre half by playing him injured on the left wing.

 

[¤DãŃn¥ §êãGüLL¤]

Why does it have to be a big-name coach anyway? If someone had suggested a year ago Mike Newall or Adie Boothroyd as McGhee's successor the likely London Irish response would have been " ". Why not try out an ex-pro or an up and coming coach at a Premiership club? What was Micky Adams doing when Dick Knight came calling? Managing Forest's stiffs wasn't it?

Shame Paul Ince just signed for Swindon, we could have done a lot worse then someone who's been managed by Fergie and played at the very highest level most of his career.

 

[Gully]

Look at Keane taking over at Sunderland for his first job in management, that is a fair sized club for starters, he has been coached by some of the best in the game which must give him a head start in the game.

 

[Stumpy Tim]

You are having a laugh if you think that situation would change under a rookie like Wilkins, the guy who earlier this year had to apologise to the whole youth team squad because of his overreaction to a game at Blackburn. Yeah, he's ready for the big time pressures of management

Actually, I thought that was a good piece of man management. It taught the kids not to get too big for their boots, and that Wilkins always expected more... I was impressed by that

 

[Tooting Gull]

Why does it have to be a big-name coach anyway? If someone had suggested a year ago Mike Newall or Adie Boothroyd as McGhee's successor the likely London Irish response would have been " ". Why not try out an ex-pro or an up and coming coach at a Premiership club? What was Micky Adams doing when Dick Knight came calling? Managing Forest's stiffs wasn't it?

Shame Paul Ince just signed for Swindon, we could have done a lot worse then someone who's been managed by Fergie and played at the very highest level most of his career.

I think the success of Boothroyd has, at last, changed some views. Ie, it might be better to take a punt on an ambitious young coach who has impressed everyone while doing the badges, than go to the tired old pool that are in the frame every time a job comes up.

 

[London Irish]

Actually, I thought that was a good piece of man management. It taught the kids not to get too big for their boots, and that Wilkins always expected more... I was impressed by that

I was too, initially, and said so at the time.

But then you heard whisperings about how disaffected both parents and players had been by the dressing down, and then I thought it wasn't such a great idea for team morale if that was being openly discussed.

 

[London Irish]

Why does it have to be a big-name coach anyway? If someone had suggested a year ago Mike Newall or Adie Boothroyd as McGhee's successor the likely London Irish response would have been " ".

But Boothroyd had already impressed many in the game during his spell at first-team coach at Leeds, he was unknown to most fans but had a good reputation in coaching circles. Is first-team coach at Leeds the same now as first-team coach of the Brighton youth? Sorry to be sceptical.

Don't understand the reference to Newall, he has been a manager of repute for a few years now, steady if unspectacular start at Hartlepool followed by widely acknowledged success at Luton. Again, if he wanted to leave Luton a year ago on the back of their promotion he'd have got plenty of better offers than us, even if you'd have sacked McGhee for the terrible crime of leading us to our highest league finish since 1991

 

[London Irish]

3. You don't develop your young centre half by playing him injured on the left wing.

The obsession with this minor injury enforced move is utterly peurile. Are you seriously telling me that these few minutes has wiped out the utterly tremendous advances he's made under McGhee to the extent of having Prem scouts littering Withdean like pimps at a ho convention.

 

[Stumpy Tim]

I was too, initially, and said so at the time.

But then you heard whisperings about how disaffected both parents and players had been by the dressing down, and then I thought it wasn't such a great idea for team morale if that was being openly discussed.

Well we went on to win the league, and a lot of those lads have graduated to the first team... so they may been annoyed for a couple of days, but they got over it & the overall message remained the same. Expecting more of young players is a good asset IMO.

I'm not bothered whether MM goes or not but when he does (be it tomorrow or 3 years time), I think Wilkins deserves a chance

 

[Icy Gull]

, we could have done a lot worse then someone who's been managed by Fergie and played at the very highest level most of his career.

Already got one of those, why would a different one be any better?

 

[Kinky Gerbil]

Already got one of those, why would a different one be any better?

As he might have some connections still!