Portsmouth Wound up tomorrow wed?

[Easy 10]

So they've staved off a winding up order for another week, in the vague hope that some other sandjockey is waiting in the wings and about to bail them out. Will the FAPL be able to conduct a thorough "fit and proper persons" test on this new saviour ?

Oh hang on - they don't really bother with that, do they.
Carry on.

 

[Alex Alex Dawson oo! oo!]

I think it's more likely that the Premier league would some how find a way to ensure they can continue their current practice, while avoiding the repurcussions of debt.

Such cynicism about the PL

 

[Brighton till i die]

anti-f***ing-climax or what

 

[Easy 10]

Its a joke.
If theres one club that absolutely NEEDS the Administrators to run that circus freakshow right now, its Pompey. They've been allowed to lurch from one crisis to the next for far too long. Storrie and the Directors have already proved themselves utterly incompetent and not fit for purpose in (a) running the club properly and (b) actually finding a VIABLE buyer with some clout, and not just another fat arab chancer with a dodgy Rolex who fancies having his chubby face in the tabs for a couple of weeks.

I cannot for the LIFE of me see how they have avoided administration thus far. Clubs have had to go down that route for a fraction of the debt this mob have saddled themselves with. It can only be the FAPL activdly colluding with them to stave it off until their debt-ridden carcasses finally drop into the Championship, then Scudamore can breathe a BIG sigh of relief at seeing the back of that basketcase, and can go back to spending his days dreaming up stupid f***ing ideas like a 39th game on the moon or whatever.

 

[sten_super]

Its a joke.
If theres one club that absolutely NEEDS the Administrators to run that circus freakshow right now, its Pompey. They've been allowed to lurch from one crisis to the next for far too long. Storrie and the Directors have already proved themselves utterly incompetent and not fit for purpose in (a) running the club properly and (b) actually finding a VIABLE buyer with some clout, and not just another fat arab chancer with a dodgy Rolex who fancies having his chubby face in the tabs for a couple of weeks.

I cannot for the LIFE of me see how they have avoided administration thus far. Clubs have had to go down that route for a fraction of the debt this mob have saddled themselves with. It can only be the FAPL activdly colluding with them to stave it off until their debt-ridden carcasses finally drop into the Championship, then Scudamore can breathe a BIG sigh of relief at seeing the back of that basketcase, and can go back to spending his days dreaming up stupid f***ing ideas like a 39th game on the moon or whatever.

The problem is that adminstrators need to be called in by either i) the business themselves or ii) a creditor.

PFC do not want to enter administration as the chairman is one of the major creditors and he stands to lose significant amounts of money if they do. Given the apparent scale of their footballing debts (which have to be paid off first by anyone buying the club out of administration) the remaining creditors do not stand to receive much from any purchase.

The largest creditors are (to my knowledge) the current chairman, the former chairman (Gadyamak, with c£28m of loans), other football clubs and HMRC. Of those, it's not in the first two's interests to enter admin as discussed, the other football clubs are probably too small individually to force administration, while HMRC is going for the kill after being pissed around so much by various football clubs over the years.

So basically, I can't see a situation where they are likely to go into administration. At least one assumes that if they are wound up there will be no preference to football debts, and thus the chairman and Gadyamak would be better off than under administration.

 

[Chicken Runner61]

Seven days hmnn.......


Saturday they play Soton in the cup a bit more revenue and if they win the chance to get a bit more revenue and perhaps a buyer.

On reflection I can see why they would get a shot at it but its a lovely chance for Soton to put them to the sword literally.



Mind you who will pick up the police and hospital bills if they lose

 

[Gritt23]

They have only avoided administration by having a line of men with names that look like a jumbled set of scrabble tiles, appearing out of knowing, shortly followed by wages being paid at the 11th hour only for the circus to be played out again with a new set of scrabble tiles one month later.

As we've seen from the latest one who has actually rolled into town, it's just a collection of loan sharks moving this piece of toxic debt from one person to another, and inevitably wracking up the interest along the way.

So far, they seem to have only rolled up with enough additional funding to pay wages, but now the HMRC want paying they need someone with money for Wages and Tax!!! And they don't have long to find them. I wouldn't be surprised if Scudamore does help broker a deal, perhaps nicking money out of future parachute payments just so that relegation has meant Pompey have alighted the gravy train before the administration actually kicks in.

The more it's delayed the bigger the hole they are getting into. Administration is inevitable, as they are now looking like a very unattraction Champioship team for any potential buyer, it's just whether the EPL can ensure it doesn't happen on their shift.

 

[Insel affe]

I think it's more likely that the Premier league would some how find a way to ensure they can continue their current practice, while avoiding the repurcussions of debt.

Which in turn must give the green light for every other premiership club to do what Portsmouth have done, with no penalty.........Fecking ridiculas

is Alister crowley in charge of the premiership or what

do what thou wilt :US::US::US:

 

[Chicken Runner61]

The problem is that adminstrators need to be called in by either i) the business themselves or ii) a creditor.

PFC do not want to enter administration as the chairman is one of the major creditors and he stands to lose significant amounts of money if they do. Given the apparent scale of their footballing debts (which have to be paid off first by anyone buying the club out of administration) the remaining creditors do not stand to receive much from any purchase.

The largest creditors are (to my knowledge) the current chairman, the former chairman (Gadyamak, with c£28m of loans), other football clubs and HMRC. Of those, it's not in the first two's interests to enter admin as discussed, the other football clubs are probably too small individually to force administration, while HMRC is going for the kill after being pissed around so much by various football clubs over the years.

So basically, I can't see a situation where they are likely to go into administration. At least one assumes that if they are wound up there will be no preference to football debts, and thus the chairman and Gadyamak would be better off than under administration.

Revenue reported that there were a lot more owed money and they were insolvent.

I'm guessing that if your Gadyamak £28M is right we are approaching £45M to get them solvent

 

[Easy 10]

They shouldn't have a choice. They cannot service their debts, they cannot pay their staff, ergo independent administrators should come in, try to find a buyer, and sell what they can in the meantime to keep the club running. How can they be ALLOWED to continue trading, with the current board intact and making the decisions, when they have overseen a financial calamity of such gargantuan proportions ? It just beggars belief. The new owner is there "protecting his investment" while their creditors and the taxman are STIFFED out of millions !

Its grotesque and quite unbelievable how it is simply allowed to happen.

 

[Gritt23]

The problem is that adminstrators need to be called in by either i) the business themselves or ii) a creditor.

PFC do not want to enter administration as the chairman is one of the major creditors and he stands to lose significant amounts of money if they do. Given the apparent scale of their footballing debts (which have to be paid off first by anyone buying the club out of administration) the remaining creditors do not stand to receive much from any purchase.

The largest creditors are (to my knowledge) the current chairman, the former chairman (Gadyamak, with c£28m of loans), other football clubs and HMRC. Of those, it's not in the first two's interests to enter admin as discussed, the other football clubs are probably too small individually to force administration, while HMRC is going for the kill after being pissed around so much by various football clubs over the years.

So basically, I can't see a situation where they are likely to go into administration. At least one assumes that if they are wound up there will be no preference to football debts, and thus the chairman and Gadyamak would be better off than under administration.

All depends on how the debt to the chairman and previous chairman is structured. If it's a "Debenture Loan" then they stand at the head of teh queue, ahead of the likes of HMRC. Unless the rules have changed since the time I oversaw a "packaged receivership" then you can convert loans, such standard directors loans created when they pumped money into the club into "Debenture Loans" with the agreement of the creditors who hold a "charge" over the companies assets. That is normally the banks, so they would just have to ensure that teh deal is structured so that when the administrators take over their will be enough to pay off the Debenture Loans, then the banks who hold "charges" over the assets, then presumably because it's football, any "Football Debts". Then if anything is left, the creditors including HMRC, take their pence in the pound.

 

[Brovion]

This sort of thing can't continue but do points deductions really act as a deterrent to some of the risk takers and gamblers that pass themselves off as football club directors and chairmen?

No, the points deductions are no deterrent whatsoever. If someone had said to me "You can overspend as much as you like, win the FA Cuo but two years later we'll knock off the points you've got from three wins and a draw" - I'd have bitten their hands off. All it does is spoil the league competition as it means the table is not a reflection of teams' abilities. And at the very worst it just means a team gets relegated along with the 'honest' teams. One season written off (assuming you weren't going down anyway) or maybe two if you don't come out of Administration properly. Big deal.

 

[Gritt23]

They shouldn't have a choice. They cannot service their debts, they cannot pay their staff, ergo independent administrators should come in, try to find a buyer, and sell what they can in the meantime to keep the club running. How can they be ALLOWED to continue trading, with the current board intact and making the decisions, when they have overseen a financial calamity of such gargantuan proportions ? It just beggars belief. The new owner is there "protecting his investment" while their creditors and the taxman are STIFFED out of millions !

Its grotesque and quite unbelievable how it is simply allowed to happen.

That is why HMRC made the point about them being INSOLVENT. It is an offence to trade while insolvent, as they should hand themselves over to administrators to run the club while they seek a buyer, or indeed recover as much money as they can, and pay off teh creditors as much as they can and wind the company up.

There is so much money swilling around in the EPL trough though that debts may or may not get called in, or big income is always possible for players, and survival would kick in big TV contract money etc, so whether they should be considered INSOLVENT is probably more complex than the case of your local landlord or newsagent.

 

[sten_super]

I know very little about this whole process. So, in relatively simple terms, can someone explain the difference between entering administration and being wound up? Is it simply that in administration the whole business is sold as a single going concern, rather than individual assets being sold off to the highest bidder?

 

[Chicken Runner61]

If you pumped say £10M of your own money into a club and it all went tits up the last thing you would worry about is points deduction or even relegation.

The points/relegation thing only works if you are solvent or in not too much debt when going down could make things worse.

In the sort of mess Portsmouth are in any way out where you might be able to get your money out later is what you would want.

I think Redknapp had a lot to do with their demise and I am deeply suspicious of his move to Tottenham because they are a great club routine now

 

[Chicken Runner61]

I know very little about this whole process. So, in relatively simple terms, can someone explain the difference between entering administration and being wound up? Is it simply that in administration the whole business is sold as a single going concern, rather than individual assets being sold off to the highest bidder?

In admin means someone tries to run the business as a business and tries to work their way out of the problem selling only what they have to.

Wound up means they just sell off everything to get what they can out fast.

 

[Insel affe]

In admin means someone tries to run the business as a business and tries to work their way out of the problem selling only what they have to.

Wound up means they just sell off everything to get what they can out fast.

option 2 please

 

[Gritt23]

In admin means someone tries to run the business as a business and tries to work their way out of the problem selling only what they have to.

Wound up means they just sell off everything to get what they can out fast.

That's right, and the reality with Football Clubs, especially ones up the leagues, are that you will have someone come forward and look to buy the "trade" of the company, with in effect is the league status. No-one would bar this from happening as it generates money for the administrators, and therefore money for the creditors, so who would complain?

The old company get's wound up, but as with Leeds United, the "trade" has been sold on by then to a new company, even if that new company is owned by the same people as the old company that was wound up.

A team will only cease to be if the trade is not attractive enough for anyone to step forward and take it on in a new company. I'd have thought this is only going to happen if potential buyers believe the town cannot sustain a team at such a high level, so they may as well just start afresh at the bottom of the pyramid, such as Maidstone.

 

[Easy 10]

Looking forward to reading Not Andy Naylors "unofficial" take on todays events on here later on.

Coo. Three 'ons' in one little sentence. And yet it still makes sense.

 

[Chicken Runner61]

The problem is what people like Gayadamak or whatever he is called values it as ie how much he put in and what the Revenue will want just to get their money.

Theoretically you could buy the best bits of the club say all the players they own off their hands for £12M (what the revenue will want) and close the rest down with all the debt left with whats his name and whoever else was stupid enough to put the cash in.

There is a warning for us here as I don't think Pompey own the ground and that seems the difference between every club in trouble and every one that is ok (ish).

I do hope ManUre sell Old Trafford soon....