Point of the Travel Vouchers?

[Lord Bracknell]

The problem is that the Club announced months ago that they would introduce a Travel Voucher scheme that involved charging fans who bought one £1 per game. They announced this BEFORE discussing the practicalities with the train operators or the bus companies. The FACT of the matter is that the scheme that has been introduced is impractical.

Everyone has been hiding behind an excuse that there have been problems distributing the Vouchers - and informal decisions have been taken that no-one will bother checking whether a train or bus passenger has, in fact, bought BOTH a match ticket AND a travel voucher. But this pretence can't last much longer. Either the transport operators have to come up with a fair and workable system of checking the vouchers and charging passengers who don't have one (which I believe will be IMPOSSIBLE) or the Club will have to abandon the Voucher scheme, because it's unfair to have some people paying for vouchers, while others travel free of charge.

This isn't a random rant, by the way. It's a considered opinion, based on my 35 years working in public transport provision, including many years of working with train and bus companies to devise ticketing systems that work on public transport.

 

[8ace]

I'm glad I haven't bought any vouchers.

 

[BensGrandad]

Lord B can you explain why the vouchers cannot be exchanged for either a train ticket at the station or a bus ticket on the bus and people told that they may use either one train or bus, but not both on any one journey to or from The Amex.

 

[Gazwag]

To be honest I am mightily pissed off having paid 90 quid for the three of us when its clear you can enter lewes station via the car park without a voucher and I witnessed somebody showing season ticket to get through the barrier on the way back after the match as they had no voucher and the ticket inspector looked at it and waved him through

 

[Lord Bracknell]

Lord B can you explain why the vouchers cannot be exchanged for either a train ticket at the station or a bus ticket on the bus and people told that they may use either one train or bus, but not both on any one journey to or from The Amex.

Firstly - MOST railway stations in the travel zone are unstaffed (at least for part of the time, including before evening games) and you can only exchange a voucher if there is a human to deal with it. The machines won't recognise a voucher.
Secondly - A lot of buses (eg the park & ride buses and the football specials) don't have ticket machines or drivers being paid to handle cash.
Thirdly - A small, but significant number of supporters are making journeys which require a change from bus to train.
Fourthly - Some supporters will be travelling in to the game by bus and going home by train (or vice versa). I will be doing this on Tuesday, for example - bus from my workplace in Brighton; train to get home after the game.

 

[Lord Bracknell]

To be honest I am mightily pissed off having paid 90 quid for the three of us when its clear you can enter lewes station via the car park without a voucher and I witnessed somebody showing season ticket to get through the barrier on the way back after the match as they had no voucher and the ticket inspector looked at it and waved him through

On Tuesday evening, I guess you will be able wave a season ticket and do the same - even if you haven't got admission to the Gillingham game loaded on to your smart card. This could be a free train ride to somewhere else, should you want one.

This, incidentally, is an example of the first test that we always use when dreaming up a new public transport ticketing system. How easy is it to fiddle?

 

[BensGrandad]

1. If the company was earning money they would put inspectors on the trains, to issue tickets to people without a ticket..
2. Is it not possible to have the outbound tickets collected by a club steward or bus company rep as the people enter the bus. 3 P & R means 3 people.
3. Stipulate it is one or the other no problem.
4. Give up your voucher on the bus for a ticket going and then use the return/ 2nd voucher to get home either by bus or train.

What is the problem?

 

[Lord Bracknell]

1. If the company was earning money they would put inspectors on the trains, to issue tickets to people without a ticket..
2. Is it not possible to have the outbound tickets collected by a club steward or bus company rep as the people enter the bus. 3 P & R means 3 people.
3. Stipulate it is one or the other no problem.
4. Give up your voucher on the bus for a ticket going and then use the return/ 2nd voucher to get home either by bus or train.

What is the problem?

1. Have you TRIED moving through a crowded train, checking and selling tickets, in the time it takes to travel between, say, Lewes and Falmer?
2. Not a problem, in theory, with P&R buses. But what about people who don't have Vouchers? Are the stewards expected to sell tickets? Is an unlit car park a secure environment to be handling cash?
3. Except it's a problem for the passenger. If they live in Brighton & Hove and they can only use the voucher for the train part of the journey, you've just imposed a £3.70 bus fare on the passenger.
4. If the bus journey involves a change of bus, you've solved nothing, if the Voucher has to be given up on the first journey.

 

[BensGrandad]

1. There has been a ticket inspector on at least one of the trains, either Falmer to Lewes or Lewes to Haywards Heath when I have travelled to The Amex.
2. I was talking only for P & R where they use perhaps 6 buses only.
3. You can travel the entire journey from Brighton by bus quite easily.
4. Not perfect but the driver could give a ticket like they do for oap concessions for the first part of the journey. It would be better than the existing arrangement of nothing.

 

[Lord Bracknell]

4. Not perfect but the driver could give a ticket like they do for oap concessions for the first part of the journey. It would be better than the existing arrangement of nothing.

B&H Buses have just introduced ticket readers on their buses that will eliminate the issuing of paper tickets to Senior Citizens.

 

[BensGrandad]

No not quite correct the pass is put onto the reader which then in turn issues a ticket instead of the driver doing it but it still comes out of the same slot on the machine.

 

[Lord Bracknell]

2. I was talking only for P & R where they use perhaps 6 buses only.

I realise that now and I've edited my initial response. It now reads:-

2. Not a problem, in theory, with P&R buses. But what about people who don't have Vouchers? Are the stewards expected to sell tickets? Is an unlit car park a secure environment to be handling cash?

And remember - each passenger in the car is expected to have an individual Travel Voucher.

 

[Lord Bracknell]

No not quite correct the pass is put onto the reader which then in turn issues a ticket instead of the driver doing it but it still comes out of the same slot on the machine.

Only for a few weeks. The issuing of paper tickets will cease in September (I think), once all buses in the fleet are fitted with the readers.

 

[BensGrandad]

Perhaps I should bow to your greater knowledge on this subject but it seems wrong that having bought 3 of the vouchers it appears that I and many others had no need.

 

[8ace]

Only for a few weeks. The issuing of paper tickets will cease in September (I think), once all buses in the fleet are fitted with the readers.

Will these readers be able to read Oyster card style tickets in the future?

 

[Lord Bracknell]

Perhaps I should bow to your greater knowledge on this subject but it seems wrong that having bought 3 of the vouchers it appears that I and many others had no need.

You're not the only supporter thinking this.

 

[Lord Bracknell]

Will these readers be able to read Oyster card style tickets in the future?

Yes. Eventually. They might also - eventually - be capable of reading whether an Albion smart cart has been loaded up with a travel voucher. But this will depend on the compatibility of the technologies used by the two systems developers.

As part of the Go Ahead Group, B&H Buses are learning from the experience of their sister companies in London and are taking a carefully phased approach to the implementation of cashless / ticketless travel in Brighton. With a million passengers travelling each week, and no network subsidy (unlike the regulated bus system in London), they can't afford to get it wrong.

 

[slinky]

to be honest, i have brought a ticket twice, SSC and Spurs game, and neither times did i get asked to show it.

So yesterday i just walked up to the station (mouslcoomb) and got on the train. Un-manned station most of the time, and got up to falmer.

If i ever get asked i will pay the conductor....

 

[trueblue]

To be honest I am mightily pissed off having paid 90 quid for the three of us when its clear you can enter lewes station via the car park without a voucher and I witnessed somebody showing season ticket to get through the barrier on the way back after the match as they had no voucher and the ticket inspector looked at it and waved him through

Like everything, it's early days though. I reckon there'll be a crack down at some point with inspectors insisting on seeing every voucher once the railways realise how the system's being abused.

 

[Superphil]

Surely this is another teething issue which will settle down? What will you do if you are challenged by rail/bus staff for your voucher, and don't have one? I expect the penalty will be just the same as on public transport at any other time, a fine. It's up to you I guess, do you feel lucky?