P.C. gone mad...AGAIN!

[Murray 17]

I'm sorry, but this not correcting every spelling mistake thing just strikes me as another example of schools aggressively catering for the less intelligent / able kids, whilst leaving the brighter ones high and dry. If I'd written a piece of work and included some more challenging words, but they're spelling was not corrected, I'd have been thoroughly pissed off if I then used that word again and was told that it was spelled wrong, as by then I would have learnt it that way.

Yes, but it's quite clear from your writing that you would not have made many spelling mistakes so the few you had made would be corrected. This would leave you with a manageable target.

The point has been made that teachers can be defensive and I can understand why this appears to be the case, but you really need to spend some time with a group of children who have real difficulty with writing (and we haven't really touched on the correct use of grammar) to see that the 'correct all mistakes everytime' theory would really not work. To give you some idea, in some pieces of writing a child will spell the same word incorrectly several times. A teacher will correct it once and then expect the child to correct the same word later in the text. You or I could do that because we have a higher level of understanding, but I can tell you that in most cases children cannot, because it is very common for a child to not be able to tell you what they have written.

So many parents and 'laymen' that I have worked with have had their eyes opened after spending just a few hours in school. They all regarded most children to be of a similar ability to them, and when they see a lot are not, they are amazed.

It would be interesting to see how many people would like to use NSC but don't because they feel they are not able to write to a reasonable standard.

 

[brightn'ove]

I just remembered another great story from the educational paradise that was my primary school. Once this girl printed off hundreds of copies of this optical illusion (you know, the one where you stare at it for 30 seconds and then stare at a wall and you can see the face of jesus), she gave them out to everybody in the school, and when the teachers found out that she had been distributing them, she was suspended for a week and lost her golden time for an entire half term! They thought that it had some deeper religious meaning and she was trying to spread a religious message.

It worries me that teachers who could misinterpret a little girl giving out optical illusions to her friends because she thought it was cool, as religious propaganda.

Actually to be fair she did tell everybody that she gave one of the prints to, that if they didnt worship Jesus, they would go to hell and burn for eternity. But still...

 

[ezzoud]

You or I could do that because we have a higher level of understanding, but I can tell you that in most cases children cannot, because it is very common for a child to not be able to tell you what they have written.

I'm assuming these are primary school children we are talking about here.

Why do you think they find it so difficult?

Would they find it easier, do you suppose, if instead of teachers standing at the blackboard going blah blah (I know that isn't what you do but indulge me if you will) they gave the classes Nintendo DS etc with a new game called "Mario & Sonic do some spelling" - those games are hard to play, surely as hard as writing and spelling but most children pick them up pretty easily?

The point I'm making, rather clumsily, is that I believe that if the children were sufficiently engaged they would respond well to having their work corrected but at an increasingly young age there appears to be little incentive to learn and apply that knowledge.

 

[Bakero]

I'm assuming these are primary school children we are talking about here.

Why do you think they find it so difficult?

Would they find it easier, do you suppose, if instead of teachers standing at the blackboard going blah blah (I know that isn't what you do but indulge me if you will) they gave the classes Nintendo DS etc with a new game called "Mario & Sonic do some spelling" - those games are hard to play, surely as hard as writing and spelling but most children pick them up pretty easily?

The point I'm making, rather clumsily, is that I believe that if the children were sufficiently engaged they would respond well to having their work corrected but at an increasingly young age there appears to be little incentive to learn and apply that knowledge.

You're definitely right about the need to engage kids and make learning fun. I teach English as a foreign language and educational games are a key part of my lessons for kids, teens and adults. I think this is something that is lacking in UK schools.

 

[Nibble]

One of the recommendations for improving football standards is to do away with winning and losing (or the league systems that keep track of them) because kids (and their parents) get so concerned with winning they don't worry about improving. They'd rather pick big kids who can bot the ball up the full size pitch, than the smaller kids who are skillful, but become tired by the ground they have to cover playing on adult pitches. By removing winning and losing, they focus on tactics and playing the game, instead of lumping it to the big kids, they have to show creativity and pass and move and so grow up with better skills.

But how is it gonna make any difference to how you play? So what, you use all this skill and manouverability to get near the goal and just dont take the shot? The rule makes no sense and your post makes no sense.

 

[Brovion]

Interestingly my youngest daughter's school changed back to competitive sports days a few years ago. A friend who was a governor at the school told me that they had to put a lot of pressure on the head to do it as he was in favour of the non-competitive sort.

This business of supposedly avoiding trauma for the kids who lose just sums up for me just how far away from the real world some (though by no means all) of the teaching profession are.

Wasn't going to comment on this thread as I can see both sides to an extent - but they did that at my son's Junior school. Before he went there (fortunately) the previous Head had organised non-competitive sports days with games such as 'love the hoop' where you had to walk (not run) to a series of hoops and pull them over yourself. No one was allowed to even cheer, so everybody, parents, teachers and pupils had to sit there with their fists crammed into their mouths. When the head left the Governors told the new Head that in future sports day would competitive with winners, losers and cheering. Fortunately the new Head was all in favour.

Like you I don't know where the idea that competitive sports were bad for children came from, but the person who thought of it, and all the woolly-minded cretins who brought into it deserve to burn in hell for all eternity. It just shows how far some teachers and educationalists (and I do stress 'some') had become divorced from reality.

 

[Storer 68]

How do you expect them to learn if you don't correct their errors? Otherwise they will just keep making them.

Bit like Ryan Harley really!

 

[hans kraay fan club]

So what, you use all this skill and manouverability to get near the goal and just dont take the shot? .

Did Gus go to this school?

 

[Bold Seagull]

Like you I don't know where the idea that competitive sports were bad for children came from, but the person who thought of it, and all the woolly-minded cretins who brought into it deserve to burn in hell for all eternity. It just shows how far some teachers and educationalists (and I do stress 'some') had become divorced from reality.

But some would argue that's why we haven't produced the talented footballers Spain has produced, or world class tennis players, or whatever else you care to mention. In particular at football, your 10 yr old that happens to be a lot bigger than everyone else gets picked because he scores goals, teams win, parents happy. Little Xavi, or Messi isn't getting in the team, because they're a bit small, get knocked about on the big pitches and cause the team to lose. Doesn't matter they've got superior skill, on a wet muddy Sunday morning, you need to get the ball away from your own goal as quickly as possible.

Is it any great surprise where Spanish schools play on smaller pitches, rotate players into different positions, and make the games about touch, pass and control and not just about winning?

All this nonsense about woolly minded cretins or PC brigade is complete nonsense given we haven't been to a major international football final in 45 years!!?? Where have you been if you think any previous system was working, on the friggin moon!?

 

[ezzoud]

All this nonsense about woolly minded cretins or PC brigade is complete nonsense given we haven't been to a major international football final in 45 years!!?? Where have you been if you think any previous system was working, on the friggin moon!?

Interesting points but I think Brovion was thinking more in terms of the benefits of participating in competitive sport as part of ones all round education, as opposed to throwing bean bags through a hoop, rather than suggesting how the World Cup might be won. I'm sure he can correct me if I'm wrong.

 

[Theatre of Trees]

If you are a teacher, I assume that last remark is tongue in cheek? If you used that language at our school your feet wouldnt touch the ground as you headed out of the gate.

Christ on a bike do you really think I use the same language in the classroom as I do on NSC?

 

[spooky]

we're going to hell in a handcart! I blame communists/gang culture/the selling of sports fields/computer games/eastern europeans/films/travellers/rap music/anyone a bit foreign looking..................

this this this...we're doomed doomed i'll tell ye mainewaring

 

[Was not Was]

So many parents and 'laymen' that I have worked with have had their eyes opened after spending just a few hours in school. They all regarded most children to be of a similar ability to them, and when they see a lot are not, they are amazed.

I can vouch for this, as a former school governor. I was amazed by how professional and knowledgeable teachers are, how clear they are in their objectives and methods, and how self-motivated children are to learn.

I wonder if any of the 'PC gone mad' / 'teachers these days don't know what they're doing' / 'how are kids going to improve if you don't correct every single bloody mistake?' brigade could find someone to support their views who have spent time observing classroom teaching.

Thought not.

 

[Brovion]

But some would argue that's why we haven't produced the talented footballers Spain has produced, or world class tennis players, or whatever else you care to mention. In particular at football, your 10 yr old that happens to be a lot bigger than everyone else gets picked because he scores goals, teams win, parents happy. Little Xavi, or Messi isn't getting in the team, because they're a bit small, get knocked about on the big pitches and cause the team to lose. Doesn't matter they've got superior skill, on a wet muddy Sunday morning, you need to get the ball away from your own goal as quickly as possible.

Is it any great surprise where Spanish schools play on smaller pitches, rotate players into different positions, and make the games about touch, pass and control and not just about winning?

All this nonsense about woolly minded cretins or PC brigade is complete nonsense given we haven't been to a major international football final in 45 years!!?? Where have you been if you think any previous system was working, on the friggin moon!?

I completely agree with you. I've been saying for years that one of the reasons we are so shit at football is because we play competitive matches at far too early an age and the entire emphasis is on winning useless and meaningless plastic trophies as opposed to developing skills. Go to any park on a Sunday and you'll see teams of ten, nine, even eight year olds running round, all dressed in matching kits, with hoards of parents screaming on the touchline, with the goals being counted and the match results being tabulated into a league table.

The problem comes when someone takes that view and extrapolates it into the opinion that ALL children's competitive sport is bad. And may I say you've missed the point a bit. The people who are opposed to competitive sport aren't opposed because they think that we should be concentrating on skill development to make England better at international football, they're opposed because they think that losing 'damages' children. It was that attitude I was attacking.

 

[User removed 4]

But some would argue that's why we haven't produced the talented footballers Spain has produced, or world class tennis players, or whatever else you care to mention. In particular at football, your 10 yr old that happens to be a lot bigger than everyone else gets picked because he scores goals, teams win, parents happy. Little Xavi, or Messi isn't getting in the team, because they're a bit small, get knocked about on the big pitches and cause the team to lose. Doesn't matter they've got superior skill, on a wet muddy Sunday morning, you need to get the ball away from your own goal as quickly as possible.

Is it any great surprise where Spanish schools play on smaller pitches, rotate players into different positions, and make the games about touch, pass and control and not just about winning?

All this nonsense about woolly minded cretins or PC brigade is complete nonsense given we haven't been to a major international football final in 45 years!!?? Where have you been if you think any previous system was working, on the friggin moon!?

Agree with you for once, we need to copy the likes of Italy and Spain or we wont win anything for another 45 years.

 

[Publius Ovidius]

Christ on a bike do you really think I use the same language in the classroom as I do on NSC?

Hence my comment. Good lad