Oh dear police force..... Not good

[crasher]

Hang on don't get it mixed up !
He saw the error of his ways once he was in the system, what we're talking about here is getting a bunch of marauding fuckers to stop ransacking a city ..... Big difference, what happens once they're inside is another issue but this is about the policing of rioting mobs

But hang on a sec - aren't we all on the verge of a bit of agreement here? Seems to be TheRivet's experience that thinking about the victims can make a bad'un change tack. So what these toe-rags currently smashing up Britai needs is something that will make them think about others and stop them being so stupidly selfish. Something that forces them to confront the effects of what they've done. Hasn't that got to be the long-term aim that really changes society? (Whether or not they deserve a whack round the head in the short term).

 

[BadFish]

I have stood in the dock and have taken lenghty sentences, funny enough those sentences carry a time period, you get to laying there 23 hrs a day behind a very small door wondering what the hell you have done and to whom. I deserved my time and I have no chips whatsoever, very silly of you to assume that I have! Badfish I will give you one concession, back then I may have reacted very differently to how I do now. I would have wanted to attack the police but, today, wiser and very much more sanguin I would agree to servere punishment for the perpertrater, PUBLIC NAKED BIRCHING, shame is the answer, public shame.

I was talking about yourself then, rather than suggesting that you have a chip on your shoulder now.

Do you mind if i ask you another question (part of my research ;-)) What caused you to do the things you did and have the point of view you did?

 

[Sussex Nomad]

But hang on a sec - aren't we all on the verge of a bit of agreement here? Seems to be TheRivet's experience that thinking about the victims can make a bad'un change tack. So what these toe-rags currently smashing up Britai needs is something that will make them think about others and stop them being so stupidly selfish. Something that forces them to confront the effects of what they've done. Hasn't that got to be the long-term aim that really changes society? (Whether or not they deserve a whack round the head in the short term).

Hasn't this been the aim of successive Governments for the past 25-30 years anyway? The soft approach and allowing communities to help their more disaffected? Well it has just been proved not to work has it not?

 

[BadFish]

But hang on a sec - aren't we all on the verge of a bit of agreement here? Seems to be TheRivet's experience that thinking about the victims can make a bad'un change tack. So what these toe-rags currently smashing up Britai needs is something that will make them think about others and stop them being so stupidly selfish. Something that forces them to confront the effects of what they've done. Hasn't that got to be the long-term aim that really changes society? (Whether or not they deserve a whack round the head in the short term).

Agreed. I think behind the assertion that these kids are just scum and are just doing what they can get away with is the implication that they cannot change or be changed or cannot ever make a decent contribution to society. My worry is that when this all dies down nothing will be learnt from what has happened because we condemn them all as 'scum'.

 

[crasher]

Hasn't this been the aim of successive Governments for the past 25-30 years anyway? The soft approach and allowing communities to help their more disaffected? Well it has just been proved not to work has it not?

I don't think so. Restorative Justice, as BadFish pointed out, is a relatively new idea. And I don't think it's either soft or "liberal" because it focuses on the pain of the victim as a way of changing the perpetrator.

 

[tezz79]

But hang on a sec - aren't we all on the verge of a bit of agreement here? Seems to be TheRivet's experience that thinking about the victims can make a bad'un change tack. So what these toe-rags currently smashing up Britai needs is something that will make them think about others and stop them being so stupidly selfish. Something that forces them to confront the effects of what they've done. Hasn't that got to be the long-term aim that really changes society? (Whether or not they deserve a whack round the head in the short term).

Long term maybe but if you march a shop owner down the street and parade him in all his anguish at the fact his livelihood has just gone up in flames in front of a 100+ youths intent on destruction I don't think it would work somehow

 

[Sussex Nomad]

I don't think so. Restorative Justice, as BadFish pointed out, is a relatively new idea. And I don't think it's either soft or "liberal" because it focuses on the pain of the victim as a way of changing the perpetrator.

Well I'm all for ideas to make our society better, I just feel it has been thrown back to the dark ages again this week.

 

[crasher]

Long term maybe but if you march a shop owner down the street and parade him in all his anguish at the fact his livelihood has just gone up in flames in front of a 100+ youths intent on destruction I don't think it would work somehow

Agreed. What little I know about that approach is that it needs to be carefully managed and it only works one-to-one.

 

[The Rivet]

Oh man, you guys are now asking me to bear my soul on here!, Meades Ball, perhaps I should appologise. The rest of you all I can say is that in your early years when you are perhaps 'going off the rails' you have a strong family nucleus around you to steer you back on track, I am afraid I grew up on a council estate where my parents argued about money constantly, I became very aware of money and the enevitable happened when I saw some easily readible cash just right there, the initial thought was I wanted to give it to my mother, to help but, once I got it how to give it? She would have suused and I was right there, in it, with stolen cash and it started a 7yr strecth of trouble that I am so glad is 25yrs behind me! My mother wanted to take me down the police station straight away but my bookmaker father managed to convince her otherwise, I wish she had won!

 

[Simster]

Best put the water cannon back if everyone is going to get upset about the police using their truncheon.

Watching buildings burn to the ground, shops looted, innocent people beaten up, police struck on the head by a rock and peoples lives ruined = makes me sick
Watching some kid on a bike get hit by a policeman = karma

This. f***ing little feral rats, I hope a few more get battered over the coming days when the public are standing outside the courts. Lets see how f***ing brave they are then.

I'd want every single one of those little pricks sorted out before any hand-wringing do-gooder goes anywhere near the Greater Manchester Police force asking for details of who those officers were.

 

[The Rivet]

Tezz, the effect you get from perpertrator/victim exposure does not happen in the heat of the situation but only after they have been sentenced to prison.

 

[Sussex Nomad]

This. f***ing little feral rats, I hope a few more get battered over the coming days when the public are standing outside the courts. Lets see how f***ing brave they are then.

I'd want every single one of those little pricks sorted out before any hand-wringing do-gooder goes anywhere near the Greater Manchester Police force asking for details of who those officers were.

Well sadly, according to the news, this incident is now being investigated.

 

[tezz79]

Agreed. What little I know about that approach is that it needs to be carefully managed and it only works one-to-one.

I'm not saying it does not work as we have living proof here it does but I just feel we went off topic a little.
I know this discussion is just as (if not more) important but we're going more into the prisoner reform side of things here Wich is fine but let's not start claiming the soft tactics work in all situations because its not going to work on angry/greedy mobs

 

[The Rivet]

I'm not saying it does not work as we have living proof here it does but I just feel we went off topic a little.
I know this discussion is just as (if not more) important but we're going more into the prisoner reform side of things here Wich is fine but let's not start claiming the soft tactics work in all situations because its not going to work on angry/greedy mobs

I fully agree, make no mistake

 

[tezz79]

Tezz, the effect you get from perpertrator/victim exposure does not happen in the heat of the situation but only after they have been sentenced to prison.

Yes that's what I'm saying mate

 

[tezz79]

I fully agree, make no mistake

Hats off to you too mate, I wasn't an angel myself as a teenager but having children & generally growing up seems to help people get a different perspective of things although I'm not claiming anything on par with your turnaround..... Good on you

 

[BadFish]

I fully agree, make no mistake

Agreed, but the link to the topic is...how does battering this kid help? Well i guess it makes the eye for an eye, retribution brigade fell a bit better (but lets face it one kid out of thousands up and down the country is hardly justice). But it also fuels the resentment and hatred of the police along with the feeling that they are the enemy (lets not forget the spark of these riots). That kid is hardly going to repent his sins with each blow of the truncheon.

Even more so though looking at the video there are five police around this kid while he gets whacked. Surely their time would be better spent apprehending the kid then finding others to apprehend (which is surely their job) rather than taking the time to dish out their own justice for which we have a judiciary system as inadequate and ineffective as it is. I think those in charge of keeping law and order have to be seen to be doing the right thing otherwise once again resentment and anger of the authorities is justified and reinforced.

 

[clapham_gull]

Pink jump suits it's the only way.

 

[The Rivet]

Cheers Tezz, we'll chat soon, wife says to get some clothes off so have to go! All the best mate, maybe see you at the ground one day who knows......lol

 

[BadFish]

Hats off to you too mate, I wasn't an angel myself as a teenager but having children & generally growing up seems to help people get a different perspective of things although I'm not claiming anything on par with your turnaround..... Good on you

I agree. I also think it is worth considering whether we at that age would have been involved in these riots? I would not have been looting but I think I would have been there (maybe not all the way to London when there was a bong to be smoked)