Drumstick
NORTHSTANDER
Sorry that was just how I read it my apologies.
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O/T A Few Good Men - a campaign for more men in schools, nurseries and childminding!
- Thread starter Goldstone Rapper
- Start date
Sorry that was just how I read it my apologies.
correct, she did not say that they are not capable. She has however said that females are better and better adpted to the job. Out of interest, do you agree? (genuine question)
You know, I can accept this. I'd agree with you that by and large, women are better are caring for very young children. That makes sense for obvious genetic reasons. Similarly, they are mostly better at sewing and anything else that requires dexterity. Men are usually better at tasks that require brute force and strength. It all stands to reason.
However, where you come across as prejudiced is that you appear to be stating that you would prefer a woman to do the job over a man. Why, when by your own admission there are exceptions to the rule and some men are every bit as good? If a man and a woman are both working in a nursery, who are you to say the woman is better at the job if the only information you have are their genders? That, I'm afraid, is why you come across as prejudiced.
I thnk this is a very good idea. I have been working with children with special needs for many years and have met a few very good male carers but unfortunatly there is still alot of prejudice out there. A friend who was at the time a NQT working in a reception class had a father tell the school that he didn't want his child taught by a man; thankfully the head teacher stood up for him and said this is the only reception class so if I don't like it you will have to move her schools.
Drumstick
NORTHSTANDER
No I do not agree, It's hard to deny it isn't a historical female job but times change and as far as nursing is going male nurses are increase year on year. Nursing is very much a job of two halfs the technical and academic side and the caring side which I'd argue is more important in most cases. Some feel that men let alone straight men cannot care like a women, this annoys me.
Goldstone Rapper
Rediffusion PlayerofYear
- Thread starter
- #66
Actually, you haven't ruined the thread. On balance, I think it's better to have people's thoughts out in the open.
My experience from working in nurseries is that men and women tend to do the jobs very differently. The women that I've worked with tend to focus on the care side of things. They worry about children getting wet, and put most of their energies in consoling children who are missing their parents and keeping a watchful eye in case children hurt themselves.
Men who work with children, as long as they are not trying to out-female a female, tend to have a different perspective and energy. Generally, while they also do the duties such as changing nappies. i've found that they are far more focused around the play side. From what I've seen, men often seem much more attuned to the play needs and interests of children, more ready to accept a child's request to 'be a robot' and more understanding of the desire children have for running indoors. it also appears that, having played like that when younger, men find it easier to tell the difference between play-fighting and real fighting and have an appreciation of superhero play.
I'm not saying that men can't or don't do the 'care' side of working in early years or that women never do the 'fun', just that the male way of working with children is more likely to stir children up, whereas the female template is geared towards calming children down. While these energies are often in conflict, especially at my workplace, they are equally important. At the moment, when roughly 1 in 100 nursery workers is male, children are missing out on the positive ways of being, such as being encouraged to take risks and learn from it, expressing physical dynamism and playfulness, that seem to come more readily to men.
Soton Seagull
Well-known member
Sadly there is a massive amount of prejudice in this area - perhaps a legacy of the News of The World paedo witch hunt a few years back.
A friend of mine trained as a nursery nurse some years back and started working in a nursery in Brighton. About 6 months in one of the Mums started questioning if it was 'normal' for a man to work with such young children and implying he was clearly dodgy. He was asked to leave by his employers after the Mum in question organised a mass withdrawl of children from the nursery in protest at his working there - after staring rumours about him. I would make it clear at this point that there was never a single complaint or actual allegation made against him.
He had a very good case to take action against the woman in question, and indeed his employers. He was, however, so disheartened by it all he walked away and left it be.
On the positive side he has no retrained as a mental health nurse and his career is going from strength to strength. It is the sheer small mindedness that upset him, and all his friend's and family. The 4x4 Mums with nothing better to do with their time but gossip and believe gutter press nearly ruined someone's career. This thread has reminded me of the sad herd mentality that exists in 'traditional' gender occupations (not a dig at anyone specific).
A friend of mine trained as a nursery nurse some years back and started working in a nursery in Brighton. About 6 months in one of the Mums started questioning if it was 'normal' for a man to work with such young children and implying he was clearly dodgy. He was asked to leave by his employers after the Mum in question organised a mass withdrawl of children from the nursery in protest at his working there - after staring rumours about him. I would make it clear at this point that there was never a single complaint or actual allegation made against him.
He had a very good case to take action against the woman in question, and indeed his employers. He was, however, so disheartened by it all he walked away and left it be.
On the positive side he has no retrained as a mental health nurse and his career is going from strength to strength. It is the sheer small mindedness that upset him, and all his friend's and family. The 4x4 Mums with nothing better to do with their time but gossip and believe gutter press nearly ruined someone's career. This thread has reminded me of the sad herd mentality that exists in 'traditional' gender occupations (not a dig at anyone specific).
Carers and Teachers are different types of people male caring type (not me) go into people orientated jobs like sales. So what are you looking for? Ostensibly, at first, there is not much to choose between the two personalities, balanced about 6/4 women/man prevalence. But the horseshit of the salesman is not good as a teacher. They teach a different type of shit nowadays. Not the old battleaxe/prison warden of the olden days. Women make the best carers in English culture. They are about evens as teachers.
Cracker
Cracker
Bad Ash
Unregistered User
What are the obvious genetic reasons that make women better at caring for very young children? The only one I can think of is that they produce milk, but I can't see how this would provide an advantage over a male when looking after other people's children? I don't have kids, but I don't think it's usual to have another women breast feeding them?
Isn't the fact that they produce milk to feed babies a major genetic reason in itself?
And there are women who do breast-feed other people's kids - not so much in our society (although it does happen), but in poor countries and historically over the past 20,000 years it has been a necessity in some cases.
Goldstone Rapper
Rediffusion PlayerofYear
- Thread starter
- #71
Well, I don't know any childminders and nursery workers that would breastfeed other people's children at work, so I don't see how that is at all relevant.
Nor do I, but that wasn't the point I was addressing. I was simply pointing out that there are genetic differences between men and women when it comes to care of very young children. Breast feeding is a very prominent example of this.
Publius Ovidius
Well-known member
My wife, who has worked as a reception year one classroom teaching assistant for over 17 years agrees 100% with goldstone rappers post