Non Season Ticket Holders Unite - Ticket Plans For Next Season

[Easy 10]

Seatwave is a ticket exchange for all sorts of events, so Fulham's scheme is just piggy-backing onto the existing system. I've used Seatwave several times in the past and it's a pretty slick and simple system.

No reason why the Albion couldn't set up something similar. I can't see why anyone could complain if it only kicks in after the club have sold all the remaining available tickets. This just guarantees maximum income to the club.

Exactly, its a system thats been built and already in place that the club could simply adopt, they wouldn't even have to go to the trouble of setting up their own in-house exchange, its all there. At a commission of course, but I'm sure the club ultimately get some profit from sold-on tickets as well, even if its mainly from someone turning up, buying a programme, a couple of beers and a burger rather than being left with zero additional income from an empty seat.

If you can't make it and the game ISN'T sold out (so you can't use this exchange) then I suppose thats just tough. But at the moment we're certainly looking at sellouts every week, so why not bring this in for everyone, or something similar, instead of trying to HAWK an unwanted PSL onto an (already) paying customer ?

 

[ferring seagull]

I quickly read through this entire thread but could not see what the quoted price of a psl was. I cannot remember from the presentation though seem to remember thinking at the time that it was quite a lot.

Can anyone enlighten me ?

 

[Publius Ovidius]

why dont we just wait until the club announce what they are going to do?

or is this far too sensible

 

[algie]

I quickly read through this entire thread but could not see what the quoted price of a psl was. I cannot remember from the presentation though seem to remember thinking at the time that it was quite a lot.

Can anyone enlighten me ?

£500

 

[Easy 10]

The club aren't getting any EXTRA income from programme / food / drink because the unsold program will go to the club shop ( where it will eventually be sold ), the food goes back in the freezer, and the drink goes back in the fridge. Therefore all that is happening is that the club is probably going to sell the products to someone else at a later date ( and it will probably go to a guest of a corporate sponsor who WILL pay for it at the next game ).


Indeed there is absolutely NO reason to think the 'casual fan' who replaces the STH would want food or a programme/ merchandise anyway, more likely that they WON'T buy one, because they are LESS able to afford it, and LESS committed to the club as a whole.

Where a 'casual' replaces a STH, turnover might ( or might not ) increase, but there is no change to the bottom line of the accounts. Profit and turnover are not the same.

Disagree.

They will have total revenue figures on a match-by-match basis, and it stands to reason that an empty seat = less matchday revenue for that game. Yes that item of food or drink *might* be sold at a later date, but how many times you can re-freeze and re-heat unsold pies and burgers is another story, and not one I hope to visit.

The catering in particular is a MASSIVE part of the revenue stream. They are going all-out to try and tempt fans to arrive early and leave late so we buy as much of their wares as possible while we are there. Empty seats one week does not automatically mean the lost sales will be made up the next.

 

[Crouch End Seagull]

why dont we just wait until the club announce what they are going to do?

because it's better to lobby them to do the right thing BEFORE they do the wrong thing.

Our club has always been very fan focused. It is the only reason it still exists. Would be a shame if the club forget that.

And please Season Ticket Holders DO NOT call less privilaged supporters who haven't got a season ticket "casual". If you have a season ticket you are not more loyal you are just more fortunate.

 

[Spider]

The club aren't getting any EXTRA income from programme / food / drink because the unsold program will go to the club shop ( where it will eventually be sold ), the food goes back in the freezer, and the drink goes back in the fridge. Therefore all that is happening is that the club is probably going to sell the products to someone else at a later date ( and it will probably go to a guest of a corporate sponsor who WILL pay for it at the next game ).


Indeed there is absolutely NO reason to think the 'casual fan' who replaces the STH would want food or a programme/ merchandise anyway, more likely that they WON'T buy one, because they are LESS able to afford it, and LESS committed to the club as a whole.

Where a 'casual' replaces a STH, turnover might ( or might not ) increase, but there is no change to the bottom line of the accounts. Profit and turnover are not the same.

With regard to food and drink - something which never 'runs out' (unlike specific programmes) - that is incorrect. Even if you can sell the same product the next week, by selling it to someone you are making a profit on an item, and the item that replaces it next week will also have a profit made on it. Which is a convulted wasy of saying that the more drinks and burgers sold the better!

 

[Jim D]

The one caveat seems to be that this only kicks in for matches which are actually sold out. But still, seems like a straightforward enough system so it most certainly CAN be done quite easily. No mention of PSL provisions for them.

And that is the key point in all this - it only happens once all the seats are sold. I would think that most STHs would be looking to sell their tickets for the unfashionable games - and these are the games less likely to sell out. Another point - anyone looking to get a ticket 'on the cheap' as you would for games at Withdean is going to find themselves paying full price - and maybe a booking fee on top too.

 

[ferring seagull]

Originally Posted by wgray_128
I quickly read through this entire thread but could not see what the quoted price of a psl was. I cannot remember from the presentation though seem to remember thinking at the time that it was quite a lot.

Can anyone enlighten me ?
£500

Cheers Algie

 

[Publius Ovidius]

Yes but this is not lobbying, this is a discussion on a message board. Has anyone actually put forward a set of proposals officially to Ken Brown or the board....maybe this is something that the Official Supporters Club should do?

 

[Easy 10]

And that is the key point in all this - it only happens once all the seats are sold. I would think that most STHs would be looking to sell their tickets for the unfashionable games - and these are the games less likely to sell out. Another point - anyone looking to get a ticket 'on the cheap' as you would for games at Withdean is going to find themselves paying full price - and maybe a booking fee on top too.

Well you can't have everything can you ? STH's only looking to rock up for the big games and to flog off the lesser games won't get much sympathy from the club, or me for that matter. Nor should they (and this certainly wouldn't be the case for "most" STH's anyway). Neither does anyone have the right to get tickets on the cheap.

And as all games are likely to be sold out this season, I can't see anything in your post which negates why the club shouldn't adopt this Seatwave.com system Fulham use, or something just like it.

 

[34064 Fighter Command]

This is what they do at Fulham:

How to Sell
If you're a season ticket holder and you're unable to attend a particular match, selling your ticket to another Fulham fan couldn't be easier. But remember, you can only sell home stand tickets through the exchange.

1. LOG IN
Since only registered season ticket holders are able to sell their tickets through the official exchange, we'll need to check your club registration details. Log in, either as an existing Seatwave account holder or setup a new account with us, and then let us know your Fulham Football Club account reference and postcode. We'll retrieve your club details which you can double-check to make sure we've got the right member.

2. CHOOSE YOUR MATCH
Browse through the available matches to find the one you're after. Some matches may not yet be open to sell on the exchange as they have not yet sold out on the club's website. Matches that are available will have the "Sell" button clearly displayed. Clicking on "Sell" will take you through the simple process of listing your spare ticket for sale.

3. CHOOSE YOUR PAYMENT METHOD
Once your ticket sells, you will be refunded the equivalent amount of your season ticket per match, calculated pro rata, less a 10% + VAT sellers service charge. When you list your tickets for sale, we'll need to know how you would like this money refunded to you. There is the option of having the money transferred straight into your account or you can be paid via PayPal, if you prefer.

4. SELL YOUR TICKET
Once your ticket has been listed for sale, there's really nothing left for you to do except sit back and wait for your ticket to sell. Once your ticket sells, all the hard work will be done for you. Fulham Football Club will deactivate your ticket for the match you have sold off your membership card. A new ticket for the bought match will be issued to your buyer and you will be refunded your money.

It's really all that simple.

5. FAQ
Q: How do I remove my ticket for sale from the FFC Exchange?
A: Simply login to your account and your tickets can be taken off sale simply by you.

Q: Will my ticket be used by another FFC fan? I wouldn’t want a supporter from another team using it
A: The Exchange is only open to FFC members so you seat is guaranteed to be filled by another FFC fanatic!

Q: I have a junior season ticket – do i have to sell this to another Junior member?
A: No. All members can buy any tickets on the FFC exchange.

Q: How long up to a game can I list my tickets?
A: Tickets can be listed right up until the game goes off-sale (usually at 3pm on the last working day before the game).

The one caveat seems to be that this only kicks in for matches which are actually sold out. But still, seems like a straightforward enough system so it most certainly CAN be done quite easily. No mention of PSL provisions for them.

Well, we are doing exactly the same thing, and the cost of membership of registering with ' Seatwave ' / ' Private Seat Licence ' or whatever you want to call it is ........

£ 500

So take it or leave it - it's your choice.

Fulham insist that STH sourced tickets are only available where all casual matchday tickets are ALREADY sold, so there is NO GUARANTEE that your ticket WILL sell.

With PSL there IS a GUARANTEE that the club will give you a refund - and that's a NO QUIBBLE guarantee, so your ticket is COMPLETELY transferable, not CONDITIONALLY transferable.

If the AMEX were undercapacity even by only one person, under the Fulham system you CANNOT sell your ticket on.

 

[Albion Dan]

The PSL is just a terrible idea dreamt up by someone in Commercial thinking they are being clever but without understanding the customer base or value of the product. The main loser of a proper exchange system isnt put in place for everybody is THE CLUB! It will lead to STH's not felling that they are getting VFM if they cant sell on if they cant attend and therfore not renewing, and it will drive down demand from non STH's who believe it is just too difficult to get a ticket so wont bother.

By all means make sure the additional 1000 non STH allocation is sold before selling via the exchange, and charge £5-10 for resale if required, but just make sure the scheme is available!

 

[Albion Dan]

Well, we are doing exactly the same thing, and the cost of membership of registering with ' Seatwave ' / ' Private Seat Licence ' or whatever you want to call it is ........

£ 500

So take it or leave it - it's your choice.

Fulham insist that STH sourced tickets are only available where all casual matchday tickets are ALREADY sold, so there is NO GUARANTEE that your ticket WILL sell.

With PSL there IS a GUARANTEE that the club will give you a refund - and that's a NO QUIBBLE guarantee, so your ticket is COMPLETELY transferable, not CONDITIONALLY transferable.

If the AMEX were undercapacity even by only one person, under the Fulham system you CANNOT sell your ticket on.

I think you have that wrong. You are not guaranteed money if you dont attend with a PSL if the ground isnt sold out!

 

[brakespear]

Ah - see that now. brakespear, believe me, £30 is not a piddling amount of money to me. Have had my share of joblessness in the last couple of years believe me. However, the point I was making was that the club couldn't have made it much cheaper (and easier with the monthly SO) - not that £30 is a piddling amount of money.

fair play then

 

[Acker79]

Indeed there is absolutely NO reason to think the 'casual fan' who replaces the STH would want food or a programme/ merchandise anyway, more likely that they WON'T buy one, because they are LESS able to afford it, and LESS committed to the club as a whole.

-But since it is a special, one-off day for them, they may wish to make the most of it.
-Not being able to afford £30 every month doesn't mean they can't afford to put a fiver away each week, and after 2 months splurge.
-Getting a ticket through a friend/cheaper through the exchange would free up money to spend on other things

Where a 'casual' replaces a STH, turnover might ( or might not ) increase, but there is no change to the bottom line of the accounts. Profit and turnover are not the same.

I think that's kinda the point.

If the season ticket holder can't make it, having the ability to exchange tickets means the club doesn't suffer a loss (compared to what they would have taken if the ticket was used). The exchange doesn't increase the takings, but it prevents a decrease.

 

[Easy 10]

Well, we are doing exactly the same thing, and the cost of membership of registering with ' Seatwave ' / ' Private Seat Licence ' or whatever you want to call it is ........

£ 500

So take it or leave it - it's your choice.

Errr...where does it say it costs £500 to register with Seatwave ?

Fulham insist that STH sourced tickets are only available where all casual matchday tickets are ALREADY sold, so there is NO GUARANTEE that your ticket WILL sell.

With PSL there IS a GUARANTEE that the club will give you a refund - and that's a NO QUIBBLE guarantee, so your ticket is COMPLETELY transferable, not CONDITIONALLY transferable.

If the AMEX were undercapacity even by only one person, under the Fulham system you CANNOT sell your ticket on.

No of course they can't *guarantee* your seat will sell, why would they ? But there's a decent chance if the game is sold out that there will be people cruising the exchange site to pick up spares.

The holder of an unused PSL seat won't get his money back either if it doesn't get sold on. Obviously.

 

[Rowdey]

Just to echo some of the above. I don't feel the club is pricing me out just my personal situation and the current demand situation. The club are to be congratulated for making it affordable to buy a season ticket but nothing could make it affordable enough for me. I'm more concerned about away games as it looks like the club are going to employ a loyalty scheme putting season ticket holders at an advantage rather than a membership scheme which puts everyone level.
Why a membership scheme instead of one that gives total priority to STH's?
Being able to afford to go to 5 games a season doesn't make you any less "loyal" than someone who can afford to go to 40.

History Man made some inroads on this exact point, but no answer back yet..
http://nortr3nixy.nimpr.uk/showthread.php?196976-New-loyalty-scheme&daysprune=365

 

[Crouch End Seagull]

The exchange doesn't increase the takings, but it prevents a decrease.

More importantly an exchange scheme is also fairer. Fairer to the STH who can't go and fairer to the Non STH who wants to go.

I know it's all sunshine now but the club will go nowhere in the future if its just the same 14,000 in the ground every week.

Is everyone on NSC a season ticket holder? Certainly feels like it.

 

[34064 Fighter Command]

With regard to food and drink - something which never 'runs out' (unlike specific programmes) - that is incorrect. Even if you can sell the same product the next week, by selling it to someone you are making a profit on an item, and the item that replaces it next week will also have a profit made on it. Which is a convulted wasy of saying that the more drinks and burgers sold the better!

Food and drink CAN ( and e.g. at Wembley Stadium very often DOES ) run out.

Most people want their lunch on a Saturday sometime between 12 midday and 14:30, and a drink at half-time. The City Centre is awash with places to eat already, and the club are going into direct competition if they are planning to major on the catering side for their profitabilty.

My point is not about the quantity of sales but the profit on the sale, and if the club position their prices at a level of high profitabilty then people will simply eat somewhere else before the game ( and someone who can't afford to buy a season ticket won't appreciate being ripped off for catering as well, so they will certainly eat out beforehand ).