Muslims need to chill the f*** out

[fatboy]

How long living in Manchester did this take you?

 

[London Irish]

Indeed I am directly comparing Salman Rushdie and Gurpreet Kaur Bhatti with this cartoonist. Simply because they've all done something to offend religious groups.

You are dead wrong to do so then. These are writer-artists who are setting out to ask difficult and complex questions about their identities from an informed perspective within their communities. Rushdie is from an Anglo-Asian Muslim background and the satire he created deserves to be defended as an example of free speech.

It is utterly wrong to compare that with these base, vicious, hateful cartoons which are incitements to racial and religious hatred and direct attacks on Muslim communities in those countries in which they were published.

It doesn't matter how often you or these these newspapers claim publishing these vicious lies are a matter of free speech. IT DOESN'T MAKE IT SO!

That would be like defending the Sun for its right to free speech after it published its Hillsborough lies about the people of Liverpool. And worse, all other newspapers REPRINTING those lies as an act of solidarity to the Sun as the Liverpool people rightly rose up to object against the vicious lies told about their football fans.

Lies are lies. This cartoonist is perpetuating a BIG LIE that the Muslim religion and Mohammed are inextricably linked to terrorism.

All civilised people must reject these defamations and demand the sacking of all the editors who made these appalling decisions to publish them.

 

[Juan Albion]

if they don't like it, muslims have just got to ignore it.

to be honest, i wonder why they can't.

That explains a lot.

 

[fatboy]

I blame journalists.

 

[Tesco in Disguise]

Lies are lies. This cartoonist is perpetuating a BIG LIE that the Muslim religion and Mohammed are inextricably linked to terrorism.

i'm not certain that they are. if the paper were to make this explicit claim, there would, in do doubt, be outrage. and rightfully so. rather, the newspaper has published a caricature of one of the most important figures in the islamic faith. and it is because faith is a contingent part of a person's identity, that they should be allowed to do so.

 

[Tesco in Disguise]

How long living in Manchester did this take you?

about the same time as it would take me anywhere else.

 

[Vlad the Impala]

I can tell you one thing, if a similar cartoon mocking Christ was published in a Moslem publication that many people in the US Bible belt would be up for Nuking ALL Moslem countries.

Except of course they wouldn't since the Moslems revere Jesus as a prophet.

 

[NMH]

I've thought about it. I believe in the freedom of speech and am against any form of censorship.

Condemn the cartoonist if you like, but I think we should defend his right to say what he wants.

So, if Hitler were to be making headway politically nowadays, you would defend his right to depict Jews as vile pariahs raping people financially - when they would also have a right to do good business in a free capitolist society?
Okay, assuming you would defend his right, how would you go about defending the victims of his propaganda?

 

[NMH]

I'm sorry, do people think we Christians don't find Life of Brian funny? Maybe a few didn't but that doesn't mean even the majority were opposed to it. I don't know anyone in my theological classes who doesn't find it funny, it is one of the most quoted films in our studies, and I own the DVD.

Anyone saying 'the Christians didn't like it' is like someone who says 'Brighton fans want McGhee out.' It is true some Brighton fans probably do want him out but it is wrong to tar them all with the same brush. Same goes for Christians and most things - there is no concensus (sometimes a shame, but we are all human so vive la difference!). I'm sorry if this goes against the neat row of pigeonholes that some people, usually through ignorance, like to put everyone into (and I'm not picking on you London Calling, this is just a general comment).

There is a bit of a difference between a comedic film parody of Christianity and the time of Jesus, and a cartoon depicting Mohammed as a bomb with a lit fuse.
I really don't think the cartoonist was intending to make anyone actually laugh.
It is a derogatory depiction that generalises completely, and thumbs its' nose at a whole and serious faith.

Anyone who blames all Muslims for terrorist acts, perhaps should look at GW Bush's statement that the war on terror in Iraq is our "Crusade" - unless you are a bigot or a Western terrorist it's an incredibly ignorant stance to take.

 

[Juan Albion]

There is a bit of a difference between a comedic film parody of Christianity and the time of Jesus, and a cartoon depicting Mohammed as a bomb with a lit fuse.
I really don't think the cartoonist was intending to make anyone actually laugh.
It is a derogatory depiction that generalises completely, and thumbs its' nose at a whole and serious faith.

Anyone who blames all Muslims for terrorist acts, perhaps should look at GW Bush's statement that the war on terror in Iraq is our "Crusade" - unless you are a bigot or a Western terrorist it's an incredibly ignorant stance to take.

I wasn't trying to link the two subjects. Just commenting on Life of Brian. Thought people should know that we haven't actually had our senses of humour surgically removed.

 

[Juan Albion]

I can tell you one thing, if a similar cartoon mocking Christ was published in a Moslem publication that many people in the US Bible belt would be up for Nuking ALL Moslem countries.

This might stir up a few emotions, too:


ISTANBUL, Turkey (AP) -- In the most expensive Turkish movie ever made, American soldiers in Iraq crash a wedding and pump a little boy full of lead in front of his mother.

They kill dozens of innocent people with random machine-gun fire, shoot the groom in the head, and drag those left alive to Abu Ghraib prison -- where a Jewish doctor cuts out their organs, which he sells to rich people in New York, London and Tel Aviv.

"Valley of the Wolves Iraq" -- set to open in Turkey on Friday -- feeds off the increasingly negative feelings many Turks harbor toward their longtime NATO allies: Americans.

The movie, which reportedly cost about $10 million (euro 8.3 million), is a work of fiction and does not purport to level allegations against American troops. It is part of a genre of popular culture in Turkey that demonizes the United States.

The film comes on the heels of a novel, "Metal Storm," about a war between Turkey and the U.S., which has been a best-seller for months.

 

[A Melbourne Albion Supporter]

There'll be in yr EU soon...boarders, what boarders? good luck

 

[The Great Cornholio]

As an atheist I am not going to get wound up personally about non existant characters. However, a large proportion of Muslims are deeply religious and unlike Christians in the majority of European countries, Muslims actually practice and accord their lives to their religion. So yes I can understand why they get wound up.

The cartoons are offensive and perhaps in our society we have become so immune to insulting each other and that there has been such a degrading of basic social morals. We actually cannot recognise poor taste and offensive material and just plain bigotry?

What he said!

 

[HampshireSeagulls]

I dont know is it a first?
As you can probably tell by my rantings the whole political correctness thing really pisses me off.
If you are in Forces then i would hope you to be very un PC.

Why would that be then? Why would I need to be very un-PC to be in the Forces? Should I go and hand my medals back in because I think that there is a thin line between national pride and racism, and some people don't know when they've crossed it? Does it make my last three Gulf Conflicts worthless because I haven't gone with the sole intention of kicking the shit out of the fuzzy-wuzzies? Last time I looked, I actually worked with people who were not the same colour or religion as me. You would do worse to check out the recent lists of VC winners - Pte Beharry is not only not English, he is a darker shade of black! Recruited to the English Army, he's far braver than some of the pathetic BNP bodyguards that were rolling around yesterday (and yes, I know some of them are ex-Para, and yes, I know some of them....). Being a borderline right winger does not make a good member of HM Armed Forces, and they are definitely in the minority (except in some Regiments, obviously). I'm not PC, but I don't stand in front of the mirror and see whether Sieg Heiling suits me - there is a line you can tread without coming across as a "look at me" racist.

If you checked around some of the other threads on here, we have people who are quite happy to admit they are racists, and some that seem to have crawled out of the woodwork since the arguments have started. You would also know that I used to be a card-carrying member of the National Front, until I realised that actually most of the enemy was the enemy within - I would rather shoot some of the "English" scum than the immigrants, which wasn't a good thing to announce at a meeting. "Hi, my name is xxxxx and actually, I would rather shoot some of you drug-taking, moronic, dole queue hyenas than the bloke who runs the newsagent, or the restaurant."

Apart from all that, only one of the cartoons is actually moderately amusing.

Jesus (can we still say that?) - you are lining me up with LI and his tree-hugging lefty immigrant-lovers now...

 

[Yorkie]

rubbish. you are born white, you are born british, you are born with blond hair.
you are not born thinking muhammad is a prophet. you are indoctrinated by those close to you. it may be difficult, but all muslims have the chance to renounce their faith.

Very few do because they are born into Muslim families. Their family disown them if they reject their faith.
In Malaysia and Indonesia Muslims who have chosen to become Christians have to go into hiding to avoid being killed.

Freedom is speech is a myth. Everybody has the right to say whatever they want but as pointed out before, with rights come responsibilities and respect.

 

[London Calling]

I'm sorry, do people think we Christians don't find Life of Brian funny? Maybe a few didn't but that doesn't mean even the majority were opposed to it. I don't know anyone in my theological classes who doesn't find it funny, it is one of the most quoted films in our studies, and I own the DVD.

Anyone saying 'the Christians didn't like it' is like someone who says 'Brighton fans want McGhee out.' It is true some Brighton fans probably do want him out but it is wrong to tar them all with the same brush. Same goes for Christians and most things - there is no concensus (sometimes a shame, but we are all human so vive la difference!). I'm sorry if this goes against the neat row of pigeonholes that some people, usually through ignorance, like to put everyone into (and I'm not picking on you London Calling, this is just a general comment).

FINE, and I should have said "some" Christians. Many of whom were againgst the film b4 they had actually seen it?

 

[Row Z Creased Shirt]

Actually he's got a point. It certainly seems at times if you are white and British you f***ed if you want anything, but go to pleeding to the social if you are an asylum seeking sponge then they get what ever they want......Its a disgrace.

And yes the mad mullah's do need to chill out

How can i put this niceley.... hmmm BOLLOCKS!
If you are white and british you are very lucky to have been born in a country where you are unlkely to ever wonder where your next meal is going to come from. You are unlikely to be locked up and tortured for thinking that head of state and governement are a bunch of c**ts. You are unlikely to be living in a war zone. You are unlikely to shit yourself to death because the only water you can drink is unsanitised sewage. You are unlikely to die from preventable disease for lack of commonly available medicine.

Quite frankly some people in this country don't realise how f***ing lucky they were to have had the good fortune to have been born in a free and wealthy country that is full of opportunity for those who want to take it. I find it utterly despicable that people are persecuted for wanting to improve their lives simply because the lottery of birthplace has not been so kind to them.


As for the thread my opinion on the cartoons is that they are offensive and seem to be deliberately inflammatory. However I feel there has been an overreaction in some quarters, they should just be dismissed with the contempt they deserve.

 

[Jim D]

This is a very distressing thread as it really shows how little most of the people on this board, and elsewhere, really know about the world about us, the people in it and their values.

There's so much selfishness and nowhere near enough compassion and understanding. How can anyone defend free speech when it means depicting someone (the leader of an entire religion, who died over 1300 years ago preaching peace) as a terrorist? Why would anyone in their right mind think this would go unnoticed or, worse still, why would they want to deliberately antagonise over 250 million people? The right to any 'freedom' comes with certain caveats and certainly doesn't mean that you can just go around saying and doing what you like. The Danish newspaper was criminally insensitive, and they should be taken to task on this matter.

However, it seems that all too many on this board would rather just light the blue touch paper and move back. Well, I just hope you're standing a very long way back.

 

[The Great Cornholio]

This is a very distressing thread as it really shows how little most of the people on this board, and elsewhere, really know about the world about us, the people in it and their values.

There's so much selfishness and nowhere near enough compassion and understanding. How can anyone defend free speech when it means depicting someone (the leader of an entire religion, who died over 1300 years ago preaching peace) as a terrorist? Why would anyone in their right mind think this would go unnoticed or, worse still, why would they want to deliberately antagonise over 250 million people? The right to any 'freedom' comes with certain caveats and certainly doesn't mean that you can just go around saying and doing what you like. The Danish newspaper was criminally insensitive, and they should be taken to task on this matter.

However, it seems that all too many on this board would rather just light the blue touch paper and move back. Well, I just hope you're standing a very long way back.

That is a very sweeping, condescending and unfair generalisation. Most replies on this thread were flaming the original post. You aren't the only one with a modicum of intelligence.

 

[Publius Ovidius]

I am not really sure what, firstly The danish media, and then the media from the rest of Europe hoped to gain by all of this.

We know that the more extreme members of Islamic Terrorist organisations are capable and have been shown to prepare to kill themselves on crowded busses, trains, buildings, planes and even fly jet airliners packed with passengers into skyscrapers in the name of Islam.

The cartoons were not paticularily funny, or informative.

In fact i am just reading the book about Auschwitz which followed the BBC series and I could draw the correlation between the cartoons depicting The Prophet and those of fagin type( Juden) characters standing over german children put out by the Nazi Party in the 1930's